Pirates?

[Swede]

Sorry my previous comment was a little but harsh and disrespectful, I apologize.

I still would like to see pirates in the game so what if pirates were a checkbox option at the beginning of the game? This would allow people to choose weather they want to be harassed by pirates or have a peaceful Galaxy.

[Nigel_Strange]

War is always about access to resources.

Politics is a method to spin war so that your side are the "good guys," while the other side are "evil scum," and therefore reduce guilt when you kill them.

That out of the way, I am leaning towards attempting some privateering. As an Alliance pilot, I want to run forays into Federation territory, scan ships for good cargo, then strike them. I steal their cargo and then sell it.

The problem is that the Federation-controlled areas I've been to so far seem to have mostly ALC aligned ships. I have not found too many reds here. Hard to shift the balance and practice my trade.

The other issue is that I have to run all the way back to Alliance territory to dock somewhere to sell cargo. I want pirate bases hidden throughout enemy territory so that I can sell cargo, refuel, rearm, etc., without having to make a long trek.

Asteroid caves seem like good spots for pirate bases...

[Marvin]

Usually, if you build a base in enemy territory, the enemy will eventually show up. Sometimes you must depart the area for awhile ... giving the enemy a chance to snoop around. When you return, attack and plunder ... then dock at your own station and sell the booty.

[Nigel_Strange]

The last time I tried that, the station was destroyed...with me still in it!

[Marvin]

[ulukinatme]

I think a Pirate faction would be interesting. What about implementing different contracts for Pirates? I can't see a scum-type faction cleaning solar arrays, collecting flying wild life, or answering distress calls for medical supplies to civilian cities. Maybe have Pirate specific contracts like smuggling (Add illegal commodities?), or boarding transport ships and stealing their goods (Maybe something simple, like opening the Trade menu like you do for fuel deliveries). Obviously some other contracts from the Federation/Alliance would be applicable, like races wouldn't need to change. Some of the combat related contracts, like the one for taking out an Ace, could be reworded for Pirates...like have them target a "wealthy mercenary/merchant" for their goods. Just spit balling here.

[DaveK]

I think a Pirate faction would be interesting. What about implementing different contracts for Pirates? I can't see a scum-type faction cleaning solar arrays, collecting flying wild life, or answering distress calls for medical supplies to civilian cities. Maybe have Pirate specific contracts like smuggling (Add illegal commodities?), or boarding transport ships and stealing their goods (Maybe something simple, like opening the Trade menu like you do for fuel deliveries). Obviously some other contracts from the Federation/Alliance would be applicable, like races wouldn't need to change. Some of the combat related contracts, like the one for taking out an Ace, could be reworded for Pirates...like have them target a "wealthy mercenary/merchant" for their goods. Just spit balling here.

Interesting ideas but there has been a great deal of discussion about 'black market' operations and goods in the forum, so you'd have to make a really good case, especially with Vice. There are young people playing the game.

Contracts for pirates sounds like an oxymoron ... they would have to be available outside game generated stations, perhaps player station in not gated systems might work. In EMII it was possible to hire an AI to take out other ships - I'm not sure if it transferred to EL, but that might make a pirate contract. Any player can pay another player to destroy a third player or help clear an area of hostiles, so the 'go and kill it' aspect exists - it's having NPC come and kill you an hoover up your goods that doesn't

A transport ships carries goods equivalent to 30 000 merc ships - and they are very well defended against boarding! Even the much smaller Cargo Hauler Vessels (very rarely seen, especially in gated systems) carry the equivalent to 120 merc ships ; together they are Aladdin's Caves if you can catch one!

[ulukinatme]

I think a Pirate faction would be interesting. What about implementing different contracts for Pirates? I can't see a scum-type faction cleaning solar arrays, collecting flying wild life, or answering distress calls for medical supplies to civilian cities. Maybe have Pirate specific contracts like smuggling (Add illegal commodities?), or boarding transport ships and stealing their goods (Maybe something simple, like opening the Trade menu like you do for fuel deliveries). Obviously some other contracts from the Federation/Alliance would be applicable, like races wouldn't need to change. Some of the combat related contracts, like the one for taking out an Ace, could be reworded for Pirates...like have them target a "wealthy mercenary/merchant" for their goods. Just spit balling here.

Interesting ideas but there has been a great deal of discussion about 'black market' operations and goods in the forum, so you'd have to make a really good case, especially with Vice. There are young people playing the game.

Contracts for pirates sounds like an oxymoron ... they would have to be available outside game generated stations, perhaps player station in not gated systems might work. In EMII it was possible to hire an AI to take out other ships - I'm not sure if it transferred to EL, but that might make a pirate contract. Any player can pay another player to destroy a third player or help clear an area of hostiles, so the 'go and kill it' aspect exists - it's having NPC come and kill you an hoover up your goods that doesn't

A transport ships carries goods equivalent to 30 000 merc ships - and they are very well defended against boarding! Even the much smaller Cargo Hauler Vessels (very rarely seen, especially in gated systems) carry the equivalent to 120 merc ships ; together they are Aladdin's Caves if you can catch one!

The illegal goods don't necessarily have to be drugs. What if it was say...an illegal fuel source or something from an endangered species, like ivory? Ivory is probably a little old fashioned for a space sim, but you get the idea. It could be nuclear material too.

As far as contracts for Pirates, I could see it being legitimate work from stations. If a Pirate built the station, the pirate would be the one offering hits and smuggling work to lower Pirates, no? Kind of like a crime boss, if you will. Again, just spit balling here. Maybe all this wouldn't gel with the lore, I haven't gotten into the back story much yet. I'm assuming the OP''s idea stems from the fact history always has unsavory types that try and circumvent the system and bend/break the rules to make a buck.

[DaveK]

That sounds like an interesting new twist on contraband. Actually, when trying to trade with NPC's I've been offered contraband for free because the NPC doesn't want to get caught carrying it - it's included some high level, hard to get, standard equipment like an ACM and AMS!

It would be interesting to what players can suggest for black-market and contraband that wouldn't trigger a morality flag; It couldn't really be normal trade items because we don't pay tax so there's nothing to gain. If it wasn't standard stuff it would have to be sold in out of the way places.

Here's a few starters:

gems including emeralds, rubies and sapphires
high value jewellery and perfumes
high value luxury tech goods like VR systems, watches
furs (to go with the ivory)
historical artefacts from old Earth
fragments of Vonari technology (non functional)
Industrial secrets on data drives

[Marvin]

Pirates building stations ... now, if AI could attack stations in SP, that would be cool. Also, it would be a gamble ... since it would be target No.1 for both ALC and FDN pilots.

[DaveK]

Arrrhhh - 'tis an 'ard life, bein' a pirate, me hearty

[ulukinatme]

That sounds like an interesting new twist on contraband. Actually, when trying to trade with NPC's I've been offered contraband for free because the NPC doesn't want to get caught carrying it - it's included some high level, hard to get, standard equipment like an ACM and AMS!

It would be interesting to what players can suggest for black-market and contraband that wouldn't trigger a morality flag; It couldn't really be normal trade items because we don't pay tax so there's nothing to gain. If it wasn't standard stuff it would have to be sold in out of the way places.

Here's a few starters:

gems including emeralds, rubies and sapphires
high value jewellery and perfumes
high value luxury tech goods like VR systems, watches
furs (to go with the ivory)
historical artefacts from old Earth
fragments of Vonari technology (non functional)
Industrial secrets on data drives

Those are all good ideas. Stolen goods could also be on the table, art work like paintings and statues. Maybe something like military plans or secrets, although that would probably be less piratey and more in the realm of spy related activities between the Federation and Alliance. Land or vehicle deeds maybe? I would think slaves would be a no go for morality reasons. Yeah, your suggestions are much better than mine

[Raven0]

With consideration for our younger players and as a parent myself, I can agree with the morality issues of introducing contraband items into the game.
What about (A) adding a limited random chance of Vonari incursions outside of warzones, and (B) allowing players to fly as Vonari? Many of the assets are already in place and fit with the established lore, it would add playable value to the game (IMO), and offers more modding possibilities.
I'm already planning to mod the Vonari ships, but they're low on the priority list just because I can't fly them.
(Can't remember if I've brought this up before and been answered already. If so, sorry for repeating myself. It's a feature I'd really like to see.)

I'll happily contribute any necessary models/textures if we can make this happen.

[DaveK]

With consideration for our younger players and as a parent myself, I can agree with the morality issues of introducing contraband items into the game.

What about (A) adding a limited random chance of Vonari incursions outside of warzones, and (B) allowing players to fly as Vonari? Many of the assets are already in place and fit with the established lore, it would add playable value to the game (IMO), and offers more modding possibilities.
I'm already planning to mod the Vonari ships, but they're low on the priority list just because I can't fly them.
(Can't remember if I've brought this up before and been answered already. If so, sorry for repeating myself. It's a feature I'd really like to see.)

I'll happily contribute any necessary models/textures if we can make this happen.

I think the Vonari already appear (in Legacy) in non warzones. I'm not clear as to how flying as a Vonari relates to the contraband suggestion.

Requests to be able to fly or crew (with mates) capital ships and to fly as Vonari have been raised and discussed quite a few times over the years in EM and EMII threads - if you haven't already seen them I suggest you have a look. You would need to let the community (and Vice) know why you think it should happen at this point.

Flying as a Vonari would be fundamentally different in the sense that everyone else (most players and most NPCs) would be hostile and you would be limited to the handful of warzone systems. Vice would have to code a whole background support system for you to raise $$$ to buy the various Vonari craft (which have a very limited number of types) and to keep yourself equipped and refuelled and such. Since there is no evidence of Vonari stations, cities, trade items, etc it would mean increasing the game code to effectively provide a separate third faction that like the Fed and Alc would have two enemies but no other allies; whilst the Fed and Alc cooperate in warzones no other faction would cooperate with Vonari.

Perhaps I'm missing something but 'flying as a Vonari' seems the same as the present suggestion to be able to 'fly as a pirate'. I guess that you would lose the trading/mining/stations/cities/access to the gated systems and so on ... though you would be in a cool ship. As to the latter, I think my Chim and Starmaster are pretty cool ...

[Raven0]

Thanks DaveK. I'll have a look at the old feature requests and see what ideas others have put forward. I understand that it would take a lot of work behind-the-scenes, probably more than it's worth, and this is in no way meant as an "I want it now" sort of request. Please forgive me if it came off that way, that wasn't my intention. I'll try to clarify some of the points of interest.

So far, I've only seen Vonari (outside of warzones) in their home system and a few out-of-the-way areas. Specifically, I was suggesting that they show up occasionally in the gated systems, possibly in a distress call mission or something similar.

My suggestion to play as Vonari was meant more as an alternative to adding a pirate/raider faction rather than addressing the contraband issue. I copied my post directly from the old forum and probably lost some context from prior discussion. I should have edited my post accordingly. Sorry about that.

"Flying as Vonari would be fundamentally different..." That's the point. Given the absence of known Vonari bases, stations, or cities, and the condition of their home system, I imagine them to be like the aliens in Independence Day: a nomadic race who ecologically ruined their homeworld, apparently hostile to other life-forms, whose entire civilization lives aboard their capital ships, and whose social structure centers around conquest for resource gathering. This is of course only my imagination. There's not much information available regarding the Vonari (that I know of), even in your own Technical Guide that explains many of the other mysteries. They're a big question mark in the Evoverse. I'd like the opportunity to explore that and fill in a few blanks as opposed to adding another human faction.

Maybe a hypothetical Vonari faction could be based on this idea as a gameplay/backstory mechanic. Instead of playing as a Vonari version of a human mercenary, it could focus on military missions in and around warzones or other areas where Vonari are currently found. Instead of stations or cities, the only bases would be capital ships or carriers and the missions limited to military objectives. Basically, take some of the existing warzone missions and play them from another point of view. As to the economic model and buying ships, maybe instead of having to buy different ships and equipment, use an achievement system based on rank , similar to the method already in place to "unlock" human military frames.

In one of the quests for Mercenary (I think it was Over the Hill? Please correct me if I'm wrong.), the Vonari are sort of allied with another race despite their xenophobic tendencies. Maybe that alliance could be explored, since they're also hostile to humans.

In the end, it's Vice's game and he decides what's what. I'm just throwing an idea out there to see if he and the community likes it enough to add it to the game. If you don't ask, you'll never know...

[Marvin]

So far, I've only seen Vonari (outside of warzones) in their home system and a few out-of-the-way areas. Specifically, I was suggesting that they show up occasionally in the gated systems ....

That part already exists in at least two of the current quests. And, if it doesn't exist at the level you'd like, we can always give you a hand in designing and scripting your own quest. (Compared to designing new ships, scripting a quest is child's play.)

[DaveK]

@Raven

Some interesting points and ideas. I think there's more to be explored about the origins of the Vonari, the Actarians and the possible relationship between the two species as introduced in Over the Hill. Also how their relationship might have changed over the last half millennium

And you certainly don't need to apologise for taking the trouble to think through your suggestions and offer them on the forum! A big part of forum fun is reading about people's ideas for additions that would improve the game. Many of the features we love started of as player suggestions! So please continue to share

[Raven0]

@ Marvin:
Yeah, I remember being jumped by Vonari in The Cosmic Glitch and another quest, can't remember which right now. I'd like to script my own quest eventually
but I'm a terrible writer. Maybe a collaboration with someone better talented could work out. Thanks for the offer to help, I'll keep it in mind.

@DaveK:
That's what my idea was all about: I'd like to understand the enemy and their hostility toward us, among other things. They're a fairly significant part of the story, but we know almost nothing about them.

[Marvin]

@DaveK:
That's what my idea was all about: I'd like to understand the enemy and their hostility toward us, among other things. They're a fairly significant part of the story, but we know almost nothing about them.

In the Transporter quests, a description of the Vonari gates can, at one point, be seen written on the backside of the main gate. What you read inside the portal is about all the "history" I could squeeze out of Vice. Granted, there have been a number of suppositions about the Vonari over the years ... and, although Vice has usually kept quiet about them, I can't remember him actually sanctioning any of the specifics. I guess he prefers for us to use our imagination.

[WeirdWill]

Hi to the community here. I'm back to the evoverse. I had some experience with it beforehand. I started by buying the german disc version of Evochron Alliance just to quickly learn that the evoverse existed already a lot longer. Than I bought Evochron Renegades (even did some cockpit texture mod there), Legends, Mercenary and Arvoch Alliance. Arvoch Alliance is a tough nut to crack...
Lately I even tried the older Starwraith games. It's nice to see how the games develop with each iteration. The Evochron series still has the most potential to be the best space sim. Elite Dangerous is more frustrating and has some questionable design decisions btw.

Regarding the discussion here about pirates I would like to add my thoughts as well:

Raiders/pirates:
- I would prefer if pirates wouldn’t be a 3rd faction like Alliance or Federation. The Alliance and Federation are nations. A pirate faction of a similar status would just become another “nation”.
- I think pirates should be completely independent from each other and spawn more “randomly”
- They should not be another enemy to shoot at. Instead they could act differently with different ai behaviour: they disable your jumpdrive with disruptures (I think that’s important) and are demanding that you jettison your cargo; if you do, they leave you alone and take the cargo. If you don’t they start to shoot you down. It gives you a choice.
- “pirate” bases could be in remote places, maybe spawn randomly from time to time in random remote places but they should not give pirates their own territory/sector control. Maybe Alliance and Federation military could attack them.
- There could be missions to seek and destroy pirate bases
- Other ships should get attacked by pirates, too and maybe sending distress calls you can catch while flying
- You could be able to send a distress call. The better a system is protected, the higher the chance someone jumps in and helps you. Could be made with the “Trans Pos” Button from the navigation console (only triggers that way when your jump drive is disabled by the pirates?). The pirates would immediately starting to shoot you down of course.
I think it would provide new and different gameplay, still allow people to avoid combat, make the universe more dynamic and adds new missions and objectives as well. Imho would make for a good “Raider” expansion/dlc.

Regarding factions my suggestion would be:
- Keeping the two factions game system
- Allow players to be neutral as long as they haven’t gathered a military rank of their faction. They usually aren’t getting attacked from the opposite faction (but sometimes they get, maybe bribing helps)
- They could even be allowed to dock in the other factions stations but have to pay a lot of docking fees (and have maybe no access to missions and/or equipment, or have to pay more for equipment and get lower pay for missions)
That were my ideas to make the universe more diverse and dynamic.

[Vice]

Along the line of a neutral option for faction affiliation WeirdWill mentions above, I'd like to hear additional thoughts on that from those interested in a 3rd faction option. That is, if an 'IND' or independent faction were to be added, how you would like to see it function? Some considerations:

- IND affiliated ships (including human players) would have the benefit of being able to dock and trade at any station.
- Trade, delivery, placement, racing, mining, and emergency distress contracts would all continue to be offered to IND ships, but not combat.
- For IND ships, combat would be much less of an option, if much at all (save for perhaps war zones), and mostly designed for players interested in trade, racing, transport/delivery, recovery, mining, and/or exploration.

A 'pirate' or 'raider' system could still be incorporated in addition to an independent affiliation, there could be ALC or FDN (or even IND) pirates that operate outside of the normal AI confines of their faction, but still have a territorial home base of sorts in their faction's space. There would just be separate AI behavior threads for such ships as opposed to fixed conditions based on faction affiliation only. Could go either way and I'm still just in the concept phase of it all as it's still not yet a firm direction things may go in the future. I'll really want to have most functional aspects of such a potential addition ironed out well before I consider implementing such systems.

[Marvin]

AI behavior specific to a new faction would certainly increase the range of options and interaction in the game. A member of a non-aligned faction (IND) would need to be penalized if he engaged in any sort of combat other than defensive. Which could get complicated ... how would he go about pleading his case to the local authorities, should he fire upon another ship?

Pirates could only dock at pirate bases ... which would be few and far between. Unless, of course, a pirate was allowed to bribe the mayor of a city or the supervisor of a space station. Compared to an IND pilot, pirate behavior would, I think, be even more complicated. But, if nothing else, the situation could make for some interesting quest scenarios ... assuming the quest engine could be modified ... in ways which, at the moment, escape me.

[Vice]

One potential obstacle to 'pirate bases' or any kind of additional module structure placements for a new/different faction is that it won't be feasible to backport such things to existing profiles. So it would require starting a new profile with the new structures in place for the new faction. Either raiders/pirates would need to use the existing ALC/FDN station module layouts or new profiles will be required to be started with new modules designed for them in place to begin with.

[Marvin]

By that do you mean no new default bases can be added?

[Vice]

Not for existing profiles as that data is generated procedurally at the time a profile is created. So new default structures would have to start from newly created profiles with the new code in place to generate the new modules. Otherwise, raiders/pirates would need to use the existing ALC/FDN station module layouts if existing profiles are to be kept compatible with such a new faction.