Possible Spoilers

Post by **Vice** » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:01 pm

I've received some feedback on how human ships behave in war zones that indicate it might be beneficial to consider changing how the faction system is linked to the regional territory condition.

Currently, when a region is significantly controlled by an opposing faction, a player may encounter a number of ships of that opposing faction in a war zone who won't necessarily attack them, focusing instead on the greater threat of the Vonari in the region. But when attempting to complete certain objectives (escort for example), the opposing faction can view that as an opportunity and attack the capital ship during the mission. To build a stronger allied presence in a war zone, a player must increase the territory control for their faction in the region that includes the war zone.

If the independent behavior and regional territory conditions of factions in war zones is just too confusing and/or frustrating, I can remove those elements and just force everything into allied conditions everywhere in war zones all the time, regardless of regional territory conditions and regardless of player faction. Doing so would mean removing the option of establishing a stronger presence for an allied faction in the region before war zones within them include more of an allied presence. Removing those linked region territory systems would keep everything locked in statically to allied only conditions in war zones (ships could be marked 'NAVY' or something to indicate the globally allied condition). Thoughts?

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:24 pm

The back story for war zones would drive the behavior. If it's a case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" then, for war zones, the Federation and Alliance would try to maintain a truce in order to focus on the greater threat: the Vonari. If that's the case, then the only other problem would be with neutral ships taking advantage of the truce to smuggle goods in and out of the war zone. Assuming, of course, that neither faction would try to take advantage of the truce by allowing troop movements which could affect the balance of power outside the war zones.

GWhipple · Post by **GWhipple** » Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:35 pm

I have just started with War Zones to get my military rank up, but I find it fine as it is. (the one you enter from Pearl.) Mostly friendlies around when doing missions which is good for a bad combat pilot like me. I can get a lot of cheap kills in.

YaroslavUSSR · Post by **YaroslavUSSR** » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:02 pm

From post: 187107, Topic: tid=12576, author=Vice wrote: Removing those linked region territory systems would keep everything locked in statically to allied only conditions in war zones (ships could be marked 'NAVY' or something to indicate the globally allied condition).

That would be great. After all ALC and FDN were always at war and the peace treaty had never been officially signed. FDN ships tried to kill me in Sierra in Legends and Mercenary but never - in Sierra War Zone. So nothing has changed drastically.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:33 pm

I have no problem with the current system.

The 3-way dance dynamic demonstrates a factor of why the Vonari have been able to hold these specific regions of space for so long, but not advance.
You are a lone pilot in a world of (hypothetically: billions+) other space faring peoples. Just like in real life, figuring out confusing group/faction interactions and dynamics can be quite challenging. IMO, the system represented in EL is about as straightforward and simplified as can be to demonstrate such a dynamic.

[Edited on 4-1-2016 by Rubber Chicken]

pilotnewbextraordinaire · Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:49 am

I think that there is a bit of a difference here between the single and multi-player gameplay. Since you are not your own faction (actual mercenary) then in multi-player, you have no control over what other people are doing in your name. In single player, I would have single control over the influence of the faction that I am a part of.

Arei · Post by **Arei** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:38 am

Well, being still kind of a new player who hasn't spent a lot of time in warzones my opinion is probably irrelevant, but I'm fine with the current AI behavior which makes sense to me for the same reasons described above.

In warzones, if the controlling faction would proceed to immediately ignore multiple Vonarion fighters (main threat) to gang straight up on someone for being the only ship of the rival faction in the vicinity (minor threat) that would actually feel weird.

I'm also fine with the opposing faction AI suddenly turning hostile in controlled warzones whenever they feel the opportunity to deal a decisive blow to your faction. There is still a war going on between the human factions after all, even if it stopped being full-on scale.

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:36 am

From post: 187144, Topic: tid=12576, author=Arei wrote:Well, being still kind of a new player who hasn't spent a lot of time in warzones my opinion is probably irrelevant...

I would say the opposite. New players feedback is probably better sometimes than
the "old farts", since we are so used to the game and often "miss" the obvious/simple
due to that.

Iron man · Post by **Iron man** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:52 pm

The current system seem pretty fair of what it could happen during a real war on earth. I'm for leave it like that.

Post by **Vice** » Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:45 pm

From post: 187146, Topic: tid=12576, author=SeeJay wrote:
From post: 187144, Topic: tid=12576, author=Arei wrote:Well, being still kind of a new player who hasn't spent a lot of time in warzones my opinion is probably irrelevant...
I would say the opposite. New players feedback is probably better sometimes than
the "old farts", since we are so used to the game and often "miss" the obvious/simple
due to that.

Also interestingly, it tends to be the newer players who find the current behavior 'weird' and tend to report it as a 'bug' or at least something they state should be changed. It also doesn't seem like too many players have been using the territory control system to shift the behavior. So it would appear changing it to a unified 'Navy' setup wouldn't really impact current players while making things easier to understand and more predictable for newer players.

Enough 'reports' and requests have come in that it's worth reviewing the split system and prototyping consolidating reputation in war zones for more predictable (ie expected) behavior. Once feedback comes in for a test build with this system in place, I'll make a final decision as to whether it will be integrated into the next update.

Arei · Post by **Arei** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:03 am

Like I said I didn't spent a lot of time in warzones but the only thing that struck me odd was when ships from my faction turned hostile on me after a combat mission. But I believe it was my fault for being too enthusiastic at blowing Vonarion ships up and I probably got one of my allies in the fire as well. ^^'

I'm fine with either system anyways, I didn't get your message straight the first time and thought the suggested modification would be what I described earlier. English not being my first language I quite often misread things, my apologies!

By the way, I have a semi-related question regarding factions, I hope it's fine if I ask you quickly here: Without getting too much into details is there any specific reason why Vonarion buildings are marked as the opposing human faction on the navmap? That's nothing game breaking, but that surprised me when I visited a place belonging to them.

Post by **Vice** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:07 am

Vonari buildings? Their territory regions will be purple on the quadrant nav map, indicating their control. But I'm not sure about buildings/cities as they don't really have those, only ALC and FDN do. Maybe you could describe a little more about what you're referring to?

Arei · Post by **Arei** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:13 am

From post: 187189, Topic: tid=12576, author=Vice wrote:But I'm not sure about buildings/cities as they don't really have those, only ALC and FDN do. Maybe you could describe a little more about what you're referring to?

To be more precise I saw two stations marked as FDN in the Vonarion system.

But if the Vonari aren't supposed to have stations/cities it's probably that I underestimated the FDN and maybe I should think more carefully before casually destroying their ships.

Post by **Vice** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:22 am

In war zones, either FDN or ALC can have stations in place. War zones are where human forces are engaging Vonari forces, so they will generally have stations and some carriers in the area. There are also remote stations built by the FDN in Vonari space.

Arei · Post by **Arei** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:56 am

Thanks for the explaination Vice, I believe get where I was wrong now!

GWhipple · Post by **GWhipple** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:41 am

Actually, now when I am at mil rank 150+ I can see the problem with the AI stuff in WZ for new players. FDN ships are green but still hostile to your base and capital ship, at least sometimes. Especially in the WZ near Pearl, why are FDN even there? (yeah, I know, humans VS aliens but still). It's confusing, FDN should stick to their own WZ(s). Even for me since I need to target and keep track of all the green ships that are FDN.

Post by **Vice** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:17 pm

One example, FDN can be present in a war zone in/near ALC space on a multiplayer server where FDN forces have taken territory in the area. If you have territory shifting turned on with your profile, then the same thing can happen in single player. But unifying faction to a 'Navy' label in war zones and adjusting the behavior systems to match will help prevent that kind of thing from happening in the future since it seems to cause confusion and requests for change.

XenonSurf · Post by **XenonSurf** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:50 pm

After having played in the Arvoch WZ for a longer time, here my impressions (but please consider that I am a beginner of EL):

I found the missions really challenging and diversified, some of them I suspect need special equipment to succeed (like the spying cargo missions). As in EM, I can fully confirm that combat in EL is as challenging as ever, Newtonian physics + space combat is a combination that really shines in the Evochron games

What I would like to see in Warzones (but I didn't played them all yet) and consider as pure suggestions:

It would be fine if the carriers would have more 'life' with landing and departing ships, maybe even with your wingmen.
Planets in the Warzones would be fine to allow for atmosphere fighting (but I played only in Arvoch up to now, so I have no idea about other WZs).

Now i get some frenetic suggestions, I don't expect them to be realized, but asking doesn't cost anything...:
Planets with Vonari cities to attack, maybe? This would make the atmosphere combat and Terrain Walker strategies fully usable.
What about *enemy* or Vonari Terrain Walkers to combat against in SP, but ofc, I'm not expecting a Clone War like in Starwars

For the combat itself, the mix of difficulty and challenge is perfect IMO.
A quirk that I did notice, in v. xxx78 (I play the newer xxx88 now) was: After succeeding a combat mission an enemy ship turned suddenly green (not a Vonari), I think it was a battleship, but not sure. Also some Navy ships were hostile, although I'm pretty sure that I didn''t fire on them by mistake, but maybe a missile of mine was misguided and hit them.

Greets,
XenonS

[Edited on 4-28-2016 by XenonSurf]

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:15 pm

From post: 187921, Topic: tid=12576, author=XenonSurf wrote:I found the missions really challenging and diversified, some of them I suspect need special equipment to succeed (like the spying cargo missions)...Planets in the Warzones would be fine to allow for atmosphere fighting....

For spying, the stealth missile comes in handy ... one missile has a cloaking duration equal to the time it takes to collect data in a spy contract. For planetside combat in a war zone, try Cerulean B, east of the Cerulean war zone. If you can't get any contracts there, try building a space station command module in the same sector (if a station already exists and that's why you can't dock, try another server ... or SP).