Player location detector suggestion on 'blind' server.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:53 pm

OK, here's the idea I had.

On servers that are set to not show player location (or could work with 'see all' and 'only see friendly' settings as well.) :

The Idea is based on a metal detector - of sorts.

The 'detector' would also be able to fit within the radar display field - provided some of the ornate decoration that 'frames' the radar field was altered.

There would be 3 information values, 1 of which is already built into the game.

The first value would be the Total Hostile Contacts value on the radar. If a hostile players were in the same sector as you, the THC would instantly stay at the amount there were, regardless of range.

The second and third values would display at the top of the radar display like so: 00 / 000 .

The first 2 digits would count the total number of players in the sector and the second would be the "Marco! Polo!" value ranging from -999 to +999. If you turn or move toward the player, the value adds towards positive 999. If you turn or move away from the player, the value subtracts towards negative 999.

If you are at a value of positive 995 (or better) then you should be able to see contacts on radar, except of course, when stealth mode or nebulae/environment comes into play.

Values of +996 through +999 would not be displayed so you couldn't directly zero-in on a player that should be found by regular radar methods or visually.

Besides implementing the system, the values would need to be calibrated to the sector so that the farthest possible in-sector distance between two players terminated at -999.

(There may be a few other factors, I hadn't considered.)

-----

With stations advertising when they are under attack, and players having the ability to find each other manually, ping and trans pos., this might be the nifty little gadget that makes 'blind' or 'only friendlies show on quad map' set servers much more fun.

That and any player that doesn't want to fight just might have more space and time to pack up an move along if an enemy starts heading toward them.

Post by **Marvin** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:25 pm

I'm not sure about the total number in the sector but I'm pretty sure the other two values are available in the savedata text file. If you write a program to display the location detector, you can even modify the radar accordingly (delete some of the ornate decoration using the Customizing Kit's options).

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:40 pm

I can't program, and a player locator would IMO be something that if one has it, then all should have it.

There are posts in other threads asking for 'heat maps' and other locating tools instead of the ~ board direct-broadcasting each player's position, and I agree. I figured that suggesting something a bit more simplified might be the way to go.

If somebody does decide to prototype this, maybe Vice would consider full implementation if it actually proves to work well.

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:06 am

From post: 185549, Topic: tid=12451, author=Rubber Chicken wrote:... a player locator would IMO be something that if one has it, then all should have it.

If it were a mod, I'm sure SeeJay would host it ... making it available to all players who cared to use it.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:22 am

Well, I can't mod, so I guess just forget it.

Bodega · Post by **Bodega** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:15 am

I've discussed this with Vice. The main thing to watch for is feature creep. We get rid of the ~ location, and then we need something to locate people, then we need something to hide and so on. While I see this point, I don't know if I necessarily agree. We have cloaking devices already. Here is the proposal:

Keep the current server option to hide coordinates.
Add 1, just 1 way to indicate where people are operating. Not necessarily a pinpoint accurate metric, but rather a general indication.

Some ways to do this:
[*]Recycle the old clan code that displayed a bubble of influence. If more than 1-2 ships are in a 10x10 sector vicinity of eachother then put a FDN bubble around them. That way you can keep an eye on about where they are.
[*]Make it so gates log whoever uses them. It can go right into the regional event log along with the other regional changes. This would give support ships a greater role along side the mil frames. The mil frames would rely on the support ships for metal and building fuel processors, staging stations. You can do a sneak attack if you're willing to a circuitous route.
[*]Allow enemy stations to relay the coordinates of foe factions to friendly ships. You're invisible until you start going near stations of the opposite faction.

The only way to combat this is something that is already in the game, the 2 different cloaking methods.

No feature creep, 2 of the features are already in the game. I don't think going completely dark is too appealing to people and therefore I don't think it's been a popular option.

matchbox2022 · Post by **matchbox2022** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:37 am

I think.....
For one the radar range needs to be increased by probably about double.

And the gieger counter idea is NOT a bad one.

But it does relate back to feature creeping.
If it was a feature that was missing out in the first place that we'd like to see that's one thing.

But if it's trying to combat a problem that was solved another way, it'll be a vicious cycle.

Personally I think servers should do as they do. Letting people see others is the best way with the honour rule in my opinion, but if we get a huge influx of players, than hiding it is best, with perhaps a "professional players" server where the ability to see others is always on. Said server would have a password that an invitation would only get you into.

BTW. Visual basic is not hard to learn really, probably the fastest way to get into programming simple tools.
I made .... a cat program. That's as far as I got.
I'm what people call....a newb.

[Edited on 2-18-2016 by matchbox2022]

Janus · Post by **Janus** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:07 am

I don't know if anyone remembers EMSAT (Evochron Mercenary Server Admin Tools), but I wrote that in Visual Basic 2010. I've been thinking about updating it for Evochron Legacy. Still don't have a handle on the universemulti.txt file so the station list function wouldn't be included until I did. No guarantees here, but I'm playing around with it.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:27 pm

I understand the concept of 'feature creep'. With the available evasion tactics and other features already in-game, an in-sector-only locator like this should be a relatively simple solution compared to other ideas. It would do the job, and should also pretty much stop there as far as 'creep' is concerned. And... with the new addition of 'blind' server settings, it is now a missing function.

No offense intended, but "because... 'feature creep' without any real logical explanation as to why, is not a valid reason to discount this and then offer alternatives that are more complex. If the idea I posted does, in fact, have logical loopholes I am not seeing, then I would like them pointed out and then the idea might be workable from there.

matchbox2022 · Post by **matchbox2022** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:25 pm

Yeah that's fine

I personally prefer multiplayer where finding people is the point.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:08 am

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to shoot down ideas.

I did start this thread based on one idea I wanted to suggest, but exploring other possibilities is a good thing.

I think really that there are many of us that want a system in place that's a bit more 'in the cockpit' as far as locating players goes than the ~ menu provides.

So... Looking into simplicity, relative ease of use, prevention (as mentioned) of 'feature creep', and elimination of exploitable or logical loopholes are all good factors to consider if an idea that Vice might be willing to try is to be formed.

I don't know to what point this might become a redundant thread if previously posited ideas are posted here, but it might be a good place to keep the discussion going.
If we're getting of topic to far, or running in too-tight a circle, I'm sure Marvin will let us know.

matchbox2022 · Post by **matchbox2022** » Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:09 am

Id honestly be fine with that, it's a good idea, but it takes a lot more work to build a seperate panel (which seems like the only place / thing it should really be)
That or tied into the "g" key for switching target to target list mode, so hence then an extra target hunting mode.
End of the day that's up to Vice for sure, I'm still hoping disruptors get changed.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:34 am

I'm not sure how many lines of text would be needed to 'track' multiple players in the same sector, but if it did work out to only one line being necessary and the text could be compact in the format I originally posted, then it's quite possible that there's enough room on the radar screen. Some of the ornamental 'frame' around the radar globe would just need to be altered.