Please give input on these topics

[Bodega]

Good evening pilots,
The following items have been brought up and debated before, but with the playerbase quite large there are a lot of different people playing the game. Maybe one of these tweaks would maintain or add more players. All suggestions here could be server settings or single player options and in no way would change the default "vanilla" settings to the game. I envision these all as options for people looking for different playstyles and server communities.

I want everyone's degree of interest in the following topics. I don't think this post will necessarily serve as the actual place for discussion and debate. I just want to gauge the response to these ideas. As you've seen Vice takes community feedback very seriously. Evochron is his soul, and the players are the lifeblood. (Is that cheesy?)

Anyway, I'm going to bring up 3 topics and based on the responses we can branch off different discussions for debate.

1. Coordinates in Multiplayer - Currently all players sector coordinates are visible to all other players. Should this be kept this way? How should it be balanced it if it's removed or changed? (Should an alert flash that tells you that a faction base is under attack? How specific do the alerts get?) What's the point of 'Ping' and 'Trans Pos' if I can just look at the status screen and see where you are. Granted it doesn't show in-sector coordinates, so is it enough? Is it fun to hunt for enemy headquarters by doing recon or monitoring comms chatter?
2. The economy - What about an option, single player and multiplayer, that allows higher multipliers for the costs of goods? Example, it could cost 100's of millions of dollars for a command module, or a lot more metal for a fuel processor) Is the playable universe so large that this in impractical? I picture people really having to pool resources to go deep exploring because things like fuel convertor and processors become a lot more expensive. Would this turn the game into just a grindfest? The game isn't really about money but sometimes I feel it's just too easy to pop a fuel processor up and keep going. What about a server option to tweak the economy through multipliers to make fuel 1.5x more expensive, deployers 2x more expensive, constuctors 3x more, etc and be controlled by the player/server admin. We would avoid exploits by setting a lower limit so people can't make ships cost 1 dollar.
3. Permadeath - could be rolled up into a hardcore option, that sets the economy higher, maybe more serious penalties for losing cargo or running out of fuel. It would make piracy a lot scarier if you knew you could lose it all.
   [/list=1]
   
   I welcome any and all feedback, so speak up and we can start some discussions if enough people want to.
   
   I realize you have a choice when it comes to which forum posts you read, Bodega thanks you for choosing his.

[Brian Paone]

1. Removing the coordinate info from the /who list would make Ping and Trans Pos more relevant.

2. I played 1500 hours of Elite Dangerous, and it's not because I was head-over-heels in love with the game. It's because well over half that time was spent grinding toward the Anaconda. Personally, I really enjoy the setup here. But if these are just serverside options, and not the standard across the board, then I have no concerns because if I find a server's too grindy (or not grindy enough) I can always hop to another server and see what's going on there.

3. I'd probably play a permadeath character once or twice for fun initially, but I think I'd need more practice navigating before I made a serious go at it.

(Love the closing line!)

[Iron man]

The first point have been debated during the beta and in the end the community decided to leave it like that for the new player and others player can spot each others.

[Bodega]

1. Removing the coordinate info from the /who list would make Ping and Trans Pos more relevant.

2. I played 1500 hours of Elite Dangerous, and it's not because I was head-over-heels in love with the game. It's because well over half that time was spent grinding toward the Anaconda. Personally, I really enjoy the setup here. But if these are just serverside options, and not the standard across the board, then I have no concerns because if I find a server's too grindy (or not grindy enough) I can always hop to another server and see what's going on there.

3. I'd probably play a permadeath character once or twice for fun initially, but I think I'd need more practice navigating before I made a serious go at it.

(Love the closing line!)

1. Thanks for the input. I would like to think it could open up new strategies and tactics for PvP warfare.

2. Yes, I felt the same way about ED but I just stopped playing. This would be a server setting in the text8.dat file so that each price could be tweaked. Default game would stay the same

3. Agreed.

[Marvin]

From the tone of your first post, I get the feeling you plan to modify the game yourself. Or am I missing something here?

[MiaZ]

"100's of millions of dollars for a command module", wow That's is going to take long time.

[matchbox2022]

I think co-ordinates need to be kept displayed for human players, at the least which sector.
Even system is too vague.


Hunting still requires a lot of skill...a sector is still really large...with 10k range, its almost a joke unless u can predict behaviour.
Plus it allows friendlies to spot friendlies, and humans to spot humans...that is the point of multiplayer, with such a vast arena that setup is very much needed.

I think its perfect. Gives away just enough to be useful to friendlies and makes the enemy work for hunting but not too hard.
Ping is therefore useless, but the trans-position isn't. Especially when two enemies want to "find each other" I've been in those shoes before.

[Bodega]

From the tone of your first post, I get the feeling you plan to modify the game yourself. Or am I missing something here?

Lol, Nope - That'd be something though. This is just to gauge community response. Vice has been very reactive to the community. He knows that I was going to tap into the community's thoughts on this and said he'll always revisit and take into consideration anything that is pushed for by the people. I figured some of these topics could be revisited because there are more people playing now than in a long time. Some new people may have fresh perspective or a great idea on how such systems could be implemented that are fair and balanced.

I think co-ordinates need to be kept displayed for human players, at the least which sector.
Even system is too vague.


Hunting still requires a lot of skill...a sector is still really large...with 10k range, its almost a joke unless u can predict behaviour.
Plus it allows friendlies to spot friendlies, and humans to spot humans...that is the point of multiplayer, with such a vast arena that setup is very much needed.

I think its perfect. Gives away just enough to be useful to friendlies and makes the enemy work for hunting but not too hard.
Ping is therefore useless, but the trans-position isn't. Especially when two enemies want to "find each other" I've been in those shoes before.

Thanks for the input. There has been lots of past discussions where the ideas were to tweak the system. I would still keep it on for friendlies, of maybe a sphere of influence so you know which sectors the friendlies are in, and if you want to meet up with an enemy or friendly, you can trans pos or use ping, that exists in the game now. We could devise a system so you know which sectors the hostiles are operating in, maybe a heat map so it's not entirely real time but if the hostiles are gathering and sitting in one place the red map cloud around that area could get brighter and brighter. This would kinda simulate the rumor mill of "hey, I heard FDN is building around Pearl." and maybe as you get closer to the Pearl, the rumors/intel is more reliable and up to date so you get better/finer resolution into their positions. This is the future though, so maybe the intel would always be immediate and correct and ships have transpoders that we've all tapped into.

And yeah, it's been discussed so maybe the suggestions are bad and I should feel bad.

"100's of millions of dollars for a command module", wow That's is going to take long time.

a 100 millions of dollars, yeah lol, but the server operator or option could be set to x2, so they just cost twice as much. Maybe think of it like the sandbox settings, you could set up a really tough game for yourself that you want to be a bit more grindy, or a server where it's RP and hardcore and you want 2 groups of friends to start and see how far they can get in a year.

Thanks for reading y'all, come back now y'hear.



[Edited on 2-6-2016 by Bodega]

[Serayl]

1. Coordinates in Multiplayer - Currently all players sector coordinates are visible to all other players. Should this be kept this way? How should it be balanced it if it's removed or changed? (Should an alert flash that tells you that a faction base is under attack? How specific do the alerts get?) What's the point of 'Ping' and 'Trans Pos' if I can just look at the status screen and see where you are. Granted it doesn't show in-sector coordinates, so is it enough? Is it fun to hunt for enemy headquarters by doing recon or monitoring comms chatter?[/list=1]

The only change to this I can think of would be to have tilde only work for other people online in your faction. That being said, there will always be instances where people log in as ALC for example, check where everyone's at, then relog FDN and go chase them. All the change would do is make it a lengthier process. Removing the coordinates entirely would be an exercise in pain, of which the easiest way would be to circumvent the system by having someone on the other side feed you the info you want. Why spend the time combing systems when you can have someone tell you what you want to know?

There's just not enough people kicking around on public MP to warrant this in my opinion. I mean, how many station attacks have involved two or more players so far? I've experienced a total of one: with Iron Man and MiaZ trying to gun down Tau Station in Fauston.

1. The economy - What about an option, single player and multiplayer, that allows higher multipliers for the costs of goods? Example, it could cost 100's of millions of dollars for a command module, or a lot more metal for a fuel processor) Is the playable universe so large that this in impractical? I picture people really having to pool resources to go deep exploring because things like fuel convertor and processors become a lot more expensive. Would this turn the game into just a grindfest? The game isn't really about money but sometimes I feel it's just too easy to pop a fuel processor up and keep going. What about a server option to tweak the economy through multipliers to make fuel 1.5x more expensive, deployers 2x more expensive, constuctors 3x more, etc and be controlled by the player/server admin. We would avoid exploits by setting a lower limit so people can't make ships cost 1 dollar.[/list=1]

I think this would turn EL into a grindfest, until some bright chap finds an easy way to rake in the space cash, then you'd be right back to square one.

The only thing bumping prices up does overall is lengthen the progression of the game. It'd also just encourage people to fill stations up with crafting materials, sell the now-expensive equipment for huge money, then switch to a 'normal' server and become a winner.

1. Permadeath - could be rolled up into a hardcore option, that sets the economy higher, maybe more serious penalties for losing cargo or running out of fuel. It would make piracy a lot scarier if you knew you could lose it all.[/list=1]

No.

Why, you ask? Because it's so simple to die from the silliest of causes, especially when you're new. All this would do is drill an extremely risk-adverse mindset into anyone who wanted to play this setting, which I doubt most people would.

[Marvin]

1. As mentioned before, the sectors are huge. Even in EM it was easy enough to evade a hostile player ... and the sectors in EL are much bigger. Also, having the sector displayed allows the hunted to monitor the location of the hunter ... something I do whenever a hostile player logs on.

2. Vice spent a lot of time balancing the economic system of the game. Arguably it could still use a tweak here and there but I doubt a simple multiplier would do the trick.

3. As I understand it, something similar to this is already under discussion. With a caveat not included in your suggestion which might make it acceptable to most players.

[Bodega]

Thanks everyone who has posted, I value your feedback and it has given me a lot to think about. I think the game is perfect the way it is, it's amazing and has 20+ years of experience and testing behind the systems and formulas. I do realize that. These are all optional settings for people that wanted a longer, tougher, experience. For the masochists.



1. Agreed, there are a lot of ways around #1, just as people can still dupe if they really want to but this would just make it a bit harder to hit ~ and see where everyone is. Array sensors can cover 1/4 of a sector. If there's 1 planet, or an asteroid belt there then finding an enemy base isn't that hard either. Maybe a system where if you're not in the same sector as the friendly/enemy, you would only get a general 5x5 sector indicator that there is activity in that area, and as you get closer you'd get more accurate information, kind of like "you're getting warmer, or getting colder" locator. Once in sector, you could use a sensor array, or however else you currently find people in-sector. Friendlies can of course use ping/trans pos to find friends.

2. Agreed, this wouldn't be a change to the default game, but more a change to make the economy harder for people that choose to do so. Nothing would be forced on anyone. It could be the type of system that maintains the ratio between equipment/commodities as well. I guess I just picture it being more difficult and rewarding to go exploring when it would take a fair amount of resources to pop up a fuel processor or command module and take a group of friends to go, each with a different role. A couple large haulers with metal, a couple scouts, maybe a refuel tanker to help keep everyone else fueled up.

3. And again, this would be an option, newbies and most people would still play the default game. It could be a pilot creation option, that when you die, your save file goes with you. Yes, people can duplicate and I guess this would be the easiest thing to just do with the honor system.

I get where this is going, and I thank you for taking the time to respond. Happy flying out there.

[Radikal]

1) Having the ability to see where known hostile players are so they can be avoided is nice for those that don't particularly like a lot of PvP action.

2) I guess if you wanted to make things harder (seen posts that suggest the economy is hard enough by default for newer players), and it was strictly an option to do so, it might not be too bad.

3) An option that allows one to lose everything, wiping the current pilot profile and setting the player back to beginning default, would be neat. Unfortunately this can be gotten around easily by saving to multiple profile slots before you die.