About the mining probe

[Munshine]

The mining probe is much easier to use in Legacy now.
I have a question about the way it's working in Legacy though. Like with the sensor station, when you are jumping out of the current sector the mining probe is scuttled.

But it seems that in Mercenary, you could jump in other sectors and do something else while the probe was mining. Am I correct ? If so is it on purpose in Legacy or is it a bug ?

[Marvin]

Any deployed object is scuttled when the last person in the sector leaves. In SP, that would be you. In MP, it depends.

[Flashman014]

So, if you leave the sector, the probe just stops mining? Isn't that sort of limiting in the scope of the probe?

I can understand that, from a game design perspective, if that sector isn't loaded into memory, it's hard to have an object there doing stuff. But, couldn't there be a way to make an exception for something active like a mining probe as opposed to passive like a sensor station or something?

I'm not a great programmer, so I don't really know the limitations here. Granted, an exception like that seems like a slippery slope to a memory leak, but I just don't know.

Basically, I'd love to be able to set up a mining probe, go where ever I want/need to go in the galaxy, then come back to find my probe happily mining away, chock-full of goodies.

[Marvin]

I can only think of two "missions" (not contracts) which extended beyond a single sector ... and those were in EM: distress calls (where you were under a time limit) and taxi service (also under a time limit). I don't think EL has either ... but I could be wrong. How those types worked, programming-wise, is something only Vice knows for sure.

[Flashman014]

I don't think we're really talking about missions or contracts here. I'm referring to leaving a mining probe doing it's thing, while I am free to leave the sector on whatever business I want.

Let's say, I set up the probe, then I decided I want to travel several planetary systems away to search for a rare item or make some money over there for whatever reason. I'd like to see the mining probe continue to mine while I'm gone, regardless of how far away I am.

If I'm understanding what you guys are saying, that's not currently how that works, right? As it stands now, the probe will basically just pack up and wait around until I re-enter the sector, then go back to mining. Am I understanding this?

[Marvin]

I mentioned the missions because you talked about the difficulty of adding or changing a subroutine of the game. Which is something Vice would need to address as it is an option not currently available (I think) in EL. I know of no deployed object which remains in the deployed sector after all players have departed. Normally, when I mine, I use my tractor beam, set it on auto (Alt B) and go grab a bite to eat.

[Flashman014]

Oh I understand why you mentioned missions now.

When mining, I do the same thing, by setting the beam to auto, but with the option of a probe to do the mining for me, that frees me up to accomplish other objectives in-game. I guess my point is that it seems like a bummer and pretty limiting if as soon as you leave a sector, a mining probe stops mining. If I can't leave the sector to do other stuff, it kinda feels like that defeats the point of having a probe mine for me.

Granted, I know there are things to do in the same sector, but it just sort of limits my options, you know? I guess this belongs more in a "Requested Feature" thread. I put it here just to make sure I fully understood how mining probes work with current game mechanics.

I'd love to chat with Vice about the programming logistics of making an active probe in an unmaned sector continue to mine, if he wants to engage an admitted rookie game designer in that type of conversation.

[Bodega]

I'm also interested in this. I've emailed Vice, if he has time I hope he can answer this. I realize he's busy so it may be a while.

EDIT: I received a reply from Vice. It's a lot of work to change this. I've asked his permission to paste the full response here. I don't see why he wouldn't allow me to post it, but I always ask before I run and disseminate the information I get from him.

[Edited on 2-2-2016 by Bodega]

[Bodega]

Here is Vice's response, posted with permission:

Deployables have a pretty strict sector dependency link required for their use, so it would require a fundamental rewrite of the deployable system in order to leave them operational outside of a sector link. The link is related to the server approval process, client data, cargo spawning process, entity state, and data exchange (including where the asteroids are in a sector and keeping that linked to the entity state and eventual cargo spawn point). So it’s a very multi-faceted system that wouldn’t be too practical for me to change at this point, not without significant bug risks and/or breaking or altering other functionality (ie other deployable operations) that would then also need to be changed and fixed as the development process went along.

Another factor is that deployables are designed to be player maintained, including in the space local to them in the sector. While the player is free to venture and do other things, they still must remain close enough to their deployed structure to maintain its existence. There are a couple of reasons for this from a gameplay standpoint, but it also helps build into the formulation element of gameplay. That is, the player must contend with the deployable range limitations in the process of deciding when and where to use them. For example, is it better to deploy a mining probe here where there are only asteroids, or would be better a few sectors over or in a different system entirely where there is also a planet that they can do other things with while the mining is taking place. That’s the kind of local scope decision making the system is designed to facilitate. It also helps keep the player in close proximity to where they will need to pick up the cargo when it’s ready.

So from both a functional standpoint and a gameplay standpoint, there are some reasons behind its design.

[Marvin]

Additionally, not all AI are nice guys. If you leave something of value in one sector while performing tasks in another sector. your unattended equipment will most likely be "stolen."

[Bodega]

Additionally, not all AI are nice guys. If you leave something of value in one sector while performing tasks in another sector. your unattended equipment will most likely be "stolen."

Nah, FDN are nice guys, it's the ALC that's sketchy...you gotta watch out for those ALC, can't trust them.

Listen, my mom was FDN and my dad was ALC. I was never accepted by either but at least my mother didn't leave me. I'll never trust ALC.

[Flashman014]

Here is Vice's response, posted with permission:

Deployables have a pretty strict sector dependency link required for their use, so it would require a fundamental rewrite of the deployable system in order to leave them operational outside of a sector link. The link is related to the server approval process, client data, cargo spawning process, entity state, and data exchange (including where the asteroids are in a sector and keeping that linked to the entity state and eventual cargo spawn point). So it’s a very multi-faceted system that wouldn’t be too practical for me to change at this point, not without significant bug risks and/or breaking or altering other functionality (ie other deployable operations) that would then also need to be changed and fixed as the development process went along.

Another factor is that deployables are designed to be player maintained, including in the space local to them in the sector. While the player is free to venture and do other things, they still must remain close enough to their deployed structure to maintain its existence. There are a couple of reasons for this from a gameplay standpoint, but it also helps build into the formulation element of gameplay. That is, the player must contend with the deployable range limitations in the process of deciding when and where to use them. For example, is it better to deploy a mining probe here where there are only asteroids, or would be better a few sectors over or in a different system entirely where there is also a planet that they can do other things with while the mining is taking place. That’s the kind of local scope decision making the system is designed to facilitate. It also helps keep the player in close proximity to where they will need to pick up the cargo when it’s ready.

So from both a functional standpoint and a gameplay standpoint, there are some reasons behind its design.

This is perfect. Thank you, Bodega, for going out of your way to get an answer from Vice on this one. This definitely clarifies how this is supposed to work.

[DaveK]

I don't think we're really talking about missions or contracts here. I'm referring to leaving a mining probe doing it's thing, while I am free to leave the sector on whatever business I want.

Let's say, I set up the probe, then I decided I want to travel several planetary systems away to search for a rare item or make some money over there for whatever reason. I'd like to see the mining probe continue to mine while I'm gone, regardless of how far away I am.

If I'm understanding what you guys are saying, that's not currently how that works, right? As it stands now, the probe will basically just pack up and wait around until I re-enter the sector, then go back to mining. Am I understanding this?

I need to go back and check timings but the last time I tested probes they completed their task so quickly I didn't have time to leave the vicinity!

I think their role is to make mining a quick activity if you don't want to sit around spinning your beam across an asteroid for a long time!

You can leave one running whilst you take the spoils of the previous probe back to the nearest station to sell (as long as it's in the same sector)

[MiaZ]

I don't think we're really talking about missions or contracts here. I'm referring to leaving a mining probe doing it's thing, while I am free to leave the sector on whatever business I want.

Let's say, I set up the probe, then I decided I want to travel several planetary systems away to search for a rare item or make some money over there for whatever reason. I'd like to see the mining probe continue to mine while I'm gone, regardless of how far away I am.

If I'm understanding what you guys are saying, that's not currently how that works, right? As it stands now, the probe will basically just pack up and wait around until I re-enter the sector, then go back to mining. Am I understanding this?

I need to go back and check timings but the last time I tested probes they completed their task so quickly I didn't have time to leave the vicinity!

I think their role is to make mining a quick activity if you don't want to sit around spinning your beam across an asteroid for a long time!

You can leave one running whilst you take the spoils of the previous probe back to the nearest station to sell (as long as it's in the same sector)

Timings have changed a lot.
Actually unless you have more than 5 cargo bays you will never need to use it.

I manually mine about 5 while waiting and then the probes gives me 2 or 3 more. Sometimes 4 .







[Edited on 2-2-2016 by MiaZ]

[Edited on 2-2-2016 by MiaZ]

[Munshine]

Thanks for the answer, it's crystal clear.

Well whatever the timing, if a station or a city on a planet is on the vincity, it's still useful to have quick mining and some contract at the same time.

[D-Rail]

Additionally, not all AI are nice guys. If you leave something of value in one sector while performing tasks in another sector. your unattended equipment will most likely be "stolen."

I'm fine with the functional answer. The imaginative answer doesn't work for me.

Can you have fleet members mine while you are away or do they leave too?

[Marvin]

Well, both Denny and Starbuck did some mining while I was off helping another player search for equipment.

[DeathTech]

Programming wise.

Vice could fix the probe up to function without functioning.

If one were to make the probe function in a predictive function when too far away for it to be loaded.
For example, while the player is in the area it functions as normal.

When they leave the area it unloads and keeps an in-game profile time stamp to keep track of when it was last loaded in.
Then when the player returns simulate the results it could have had when the player was not around based on the profile time stamp.

So if you leave for an hour, then come back it would random generate the contents dependant on the time you were gone.
With some sort of max time limit so if you went beyond that it would still scuttle. Like lets say. 6 hours of away time is equivalent to abandonment and it scuttles when the player returns.

Its something that is possible. It just takes time and effort to rework.
And it is completely up to him if he would want to put that kind of work in.