3D map bug, or am I just doing it wrong?

Flashman014 · Post by **Flashman014** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:32 am

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding how the nav map works, but when I'm in rear view, click on an asteroid field, switch to top view and click on it again, should I be right on the asteroid field? When I switch to 3D map, my point is always several hundred (or even thousand) meters off. Isn't the point of having an "x,y" and an "x,z" map to be able to nail this in two clicks? It takes me way to long to find the place I'm looking for if it's small. I find myself setting a waypoint, jumping to it, then flying around setting more waypoints trying to find the pile of rocks I'm looking for. Help? Tips or tricks?

[Edited on 1-24-2016 by Flashman014]

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:14 am

Right-click on an object to set coordinates. Left-click sets coord on where you click!

Flashman014 · Post by **Flashman014** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:24 am

I understand how the right-click thing works, but I'm not looking to jump right into an asteroid field. I want to set my jump point just outside the object I'm going for (we'll say asteroid field) and jump right to it. When I left-click to set a point NEXT to the field, then switch map views to control for the third dimension, I should end up exactly the 1000m (or so) that I set the points for, right? I should also be able to account for ship orientation and pitch. I can set my point 10 degrees down (z-axis) and 1000m off (y and x-axis) and look 10 degrees up and see the object I'm shooting for sitting 1000m away.

The problem is, it doesn't end up that way. If the maps are truly an x,y - x,z format, there should be little to no error there, as far as I can tell. Is there another factor I'm missing? Because the map view modes are labeled "top view" and "rear view," does my ship orientation factor into that on the nav screen?

It seems like most (or all) navigation and orientation information is set to a galactic x,y,z system, which should leave very little room for error. To help illustrate my point, a pitch ladder in space makes no sense, unless it's calibrated to a set axis, which I assume is the galactic plane, meaning the widest parts of the galaxy (generally where the arms of a spiral galaxy are) being x and y and the thinnest part being the z axis. So, I'm assuming that all navigation is set to the same plane. Am I wrong? Am I over-thinking this? (This would be so much easier to explain if you could see my hands making the movements of the orientations and whatnot. The limits of internet forums, I guess.

)

MiaZ · Post by **MiaZ** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:45 am

With the sectors so much bigger I have also found it hard to pinpoint locations. Cargo seen from sensor scans for example.

If it's one of those small looking asteroid fields, I have found if I set my heading to 0 and pitch level with IDS on and throttle 0,
then it is a safe jump right into the field.

If it's one of those that look large on the navmap then the exact location of the fields is not knows, you need to get in and look up close then
set up a map log entry maybe for later.

If it's a known point, maplog or something, I found it is easier to right click then enter an ofset into the x,y or z coords, so as not to land right on top of it.

Bodega · Post by **Bodega** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:04 pm

There is a galactic constant that your absolute speed, and pitch are based on. It's covered in the manual.

Flashman,
Forgive me, I'm having trouble understanding what you're doing that is leading you astray. You are correct in your explanation I believe. Right-clicking will set the X,Y, and Z coordinate to whichever object you click on, it's basically a snap-to button. If I want to go a planet but not crash into it, I right click the planet and then in the same view I just left click a bit outside the atmosphere. I have noticed the 3D Map isn't perfect but I barely use it, and I don't believe it's really used to navigate but rather to get an idea of the orientation and juxtaposition of two entities.

In top-view you control the X and Z, where you click with the left button locks the X. Then use rear view to adjust the Y and Z, and the X is locked. So you can pinpoint wherever you want to go.

Sorry if I rehashed anything you already knew, and I hope my tone isn't condescending. It's not meant to be that way at all. Let me know if this helps or raises more questions and I'll do my best to assist further. Feel free to join our Discord server and ask questions as well. You can use Discord in your browser http://www.discordapp.com

The invite link for Discord: https://discord.gg/0mUYeKSe0yYOF9MO

Section of the manual, found in the game's install directory, that covers the constant. I recommend reading the whole manual because it goes into details about the gravitational pull, navigation, and a lot of the finer points to the game:

Code: Select all

 As mentioned above, the 'AVL', or absolute velocity level, gauge provides your ship's velocity relative to your position in the galaxy, rather than relative to any local gravitational/atmospheric conditions. Most of the time in open space, this indicator's value will remain pretty close to the local forward velocity level indicator's value. However, once you enter a gravity field, you may see these two values differ significantly. For example, if you are flying directly toward a star with the IDS on, your ship will work to match your local forward velocity level with the set velocity you select. Both your set velocity and the local forward velocity level indicators might read something like 700, but as you approach the star and the star's gravity increases its pull on your ship, you'll see your absolute velocity level indicator increase to a value above 700 as you are gradually pulled in by the star's gravity to a faster overall velocity. If you disengage the IDS, then your ship's computer will stop trying to maintain your ship's relative velocity and your local forward velocity level will also start to increase as the force of gravity is then allowed to accelerate your ship unrestricted by computer offset control, resulting in even faster velocity acceleration. If your ship is being pulled at an indirect angle by gravity, you'll see your 'HVL' horizontal and/or 'VVL' vertical velocity level gauges change value as well. If you turn directly away from the star and engage the IDS, your ship's computer will work to return your local velocity to the selected 'SET' level, but your overall absolute velocity level will then be slower since gravity will continue to pull you backward toward the star. To escape the star's gravity hold, you'll need to accelerate to a velocity that is higher than what the force of gravity is pulling you in by.

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:20 pm

MiaZ and Bodega are pretty much on the mark. Unless you're ship is either above or below the galactic plane relative to your target sector, you only need concern yourself with the Top view. If you are offset on the Y axis (above or below your target sector), go to Rear view first and left-click. Then switch back to Top view and right-click on the object.

For planets, I don't set a close jump point until I'm actually in the sector. Instead, I jump to an empty location within the sector then click on the "Planet" name listed on the left side of the Navigation console ... which puts me as close as possible to the planet without getting me blown up.

For asteroid fields, I do as MiaZ does: orient my ship on a heading and pitch of zero. Then either righ-click on the asteroid field or, if I'm in the same sector, click on the name listed on the left. If it's a big field, you probably won't see any asteroids nearby. In that case, slew your view up and down, left and right ... somewhere in that field of view you should see HUD indications of a clump of asteroids.

Flashman014 · Post by **Flashman014** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:27 pm

So, it seems like my problem is actually worrying about the z--axis at all. If I understand what you guys are saying, especially what Marvin said, I should be able to set my jump point on the Top View map, set my pitch and heading to 0, jump, and land right where I want to. I'll have to test this out later tonight when I have time to play. Thanks guys! This forum is so helpful! I'm trying to get as good a grip on the game as I can in single player before I jump on an MP server, but I'm excited to get into MP. The community here seems to really care and be involved in the game, and I think that's just swell!

Bodega · Post by **Bodega** » Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:46 pm

Yeah Flash, don't really even worry about it. Unless you notice that when you right click on a sector and you're not seeing anything. Zoom out, left click on the sector and then zoom back in. I used to do that a lot, I'd see a planet. and zoom in and it'd be gone, it wasn't until I did like a rear view that I'd see my Z was way below it. Left click to lock the pointer at that level in the axis. You'll get the hang of it. It took me a second to "get it" but once you do you'll be like "oh duh".

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:16 am

I think you guys mean the Y axis. Rear view gives you access to the Y axis, where you can see if objects are above or below you. If you're zoomed out when in Top view, you can still see those objects but only because the 2-D map still encompasses the cube ... where your point of view is at the top. As you zoom back in, your POV gets closer to your targeted sector ... until, when you've zoomed all the way in, you're on top of the sector and, therefore, the map no longer displays anything above or below your POV.

Flashman014 · Post by **Flashman014** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:18 am

From post: 183477, Topic: tid=12286, author=Marvin wrote: I think you guys mean the Y axis. Rear view gives you access to the Y axis, where you can see if objects are above or below you. If you're zoomed out when in Top view, you can still see those objects but only because the 2-D map still encompasses the cube ... where your point of view is at the top. As you zoom back in, your POV gets closer to your targeted sector ... until, when you've zoomed all the way in, you're on top of the sector and, therefore, the map no longer displays anything above or below your POV.

You're right, I didn't initially realize I meant the Y axis. I'm getting pretty good at navigation now. I appreciate everyone's help!

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:26 am

Lots of pilots gets confused regarding the axis.

So here we go (in terms of a "normal" map:
X-axis is West (-) and East (+)
Z-axis is North (+) and South (-)
Y-axis is Up (+) and Down (-) [Rear view]

Hope this helps a bit!

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:49 pm

It's a logical mistake. 2-dimensional games normally use an X-Y axis for movement. So, when you add a third dimension, it seems natural to make the third axis the Z axis. Unless you start out with the intention of making a 3-D game ... then all bets are off as to which axis is which.

Flashman014 · Post by **Flashman014** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:53 pm

It's kinda funny, but I actually knew that 3D games use Y as the "up-down" axis from my courses in game design and my experience modding Minecraft. I don't know why I didn't translate that knowledge to this game, but now we can all talk about this on the same.... plane?! HA! (Man, I'm punny.) (Ok, you can ban me from the forums now.)

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:56 pm

From post: 183500, Topic: tid=12286, author=Flashman014 wrote:(Ok, you can ban me from the forums now.)

I don't think you violated any of the current board rules. But, if you keep it up, I might impose on Vice to add it to the list.