Default station static defenses

[Shadou]

Vice, we've had a serious issue crop up on The Outer Rim, and I think it falls into exploit territory. The default stations have a blind spot that can be exploited to destroy with no risk. The static defenders cannot fire on the attacker, and if the attacker approaches at the right angle they can destroy the station and warp away before any of the NPC patrols can make it to the station to defend.

Bypassing the static defenses to attack the station directly at no risk is a serious exploit, and the only solution I can come up with requires a lot of work from players with no reward. They would need to place turrets all around above the station to cover all the blind spots left by the current default station defenses, and probably some below as well to cover the infrastructure and the central blind spot there.

A possible fix for this could be to make the station itself invulnerable until the infrastructure below has been destroyed. Perhaps add some kind of shielding station that must be destroyed before the station or any connected infrastructure can be attacked. As it is, the default stations are way too weak, and can easily be destroyed by a starter ship in the right spot.

Additionally, some default stations are impossible to be rebuilt. Port Rivoch, in particular, cannot have a station built back in its place once it's been popped, to reconnect to the infrastructure below where it was. Is there any way we can have the sector distance from center restriction lifted?

[Edited on 1-23-2016 by Shadou]

[Bodega]

Shadou, Akuma and I have discussed this ad nauseum. I support the gameplay mechanic of attacking bases, sneak attacks, blitzkrieg attacks, and I think it's up to the the faction being attacked to deploy defenses and defend their assets. Conversely, it shouldn't be that easy for one person to decimate large swaths of space alone.

* Better default base defense? Allow more time for reinforecments.
* More NPC reinforecements if server population is low
* Better placement of turrets, though it does warn in the manual to place them to not leave blindspots.

I don't want to make it impossible for the attackers though, and in border sectors like Sapphire I would expect there to be a lot of debris. Part of me says to let it happen the way it happens, it's war and not all is fair in war. But I can also appreciate the frustration of having 1 person go through and destroy all the stations with no one or nothing to stop him. I would think the NPC's would show up as a disputed territory the NPC usually do. Maybe some tweaks are needed.

[akuma92802]

I don't have a starter ship at all. I tried the same trick with a much weaker ship early in the game... You run out of energy before the shields are out and then the shot are too weak to keep damaging. I needed 10 energy cores, a WO and best custom particle cannon with energy -5s/+5w to do what I did as fast as I did it. But I would agree with more solid command module (like double durability), a broadcast when a station comes under attack, incoming NPC reinforcment and at least one turret right above command module of default stations. I would think that would fix the problem.

[Sinbad]

I think being able to destroy a station with simple cannon fire is too easy. Why not have a system similar to how it was in EM? Only with station detonators can you destroy a station. Make them expensive to buy, and that would discourage players form going on mindless station-destroying rampages!

[Marvin]

Additionally, some default stations are impossible to be rebuilt. Port Rivoch, in particular, cannot have a station built back in its place once it's been popped, to reconnect to the infrastructure below where it was.

If this is true, it's a bug. If the only reason you can't rebuild is because the remaining modules are hostile, then you first need to take out the turrets. But, if you simply can't build a new station to replace the old one, that's a bug and Vice will almost certainly fix it.

As for the rest, you need to beef up the defenses for default stations. They weren't constructed to meet every tactical ploy an enemy might devise.

[Shadou]

If this is true, it's a bug. If the only reason you can't rebuild is because the remaining modules are hostile, then you first need to take out the turrets. But, if you simply can't build a new station to replace the old one, that's a bug and Vice will almost certainly fix it.

The reason you can't rebuild the station command is because it's outside of +/-75000 from center of sector. Evochron Station at 0,0,0 within its sector had no problem being rebuilt, but Port Rivoch is outside of legal placement range.

[Marvin]

Sounds like something Vice will fix. Good catch.

[Vice]

The starter stations were indeed designed to be in a kind of post-war rebuilding state in need of additional defenses. But being able to park in close and take one out likely does make things too easy. It will require a hefty weapon system with powerful energy reserves, so it's generally not something a new player can easily get into doing. But it still shouldn't be an easy thing to do. Command modules do have ship-destroying defensive systems (which you've probably noticed if you've fired more than a few round inside the hangar). However, that range is limited vertically outside the command module itself. So one possible option I could apply is expanded that defensive system to cover more area above and below the command module. I'd just need to know how far you want me to take it.

Otherwise, it's a good idea to quickly build up weapon turret defenses above a command module. Most of them should be fairly well protected below and just need coverage above.

Additionally, some default stations are impossible to be rebuilt. Port Rivoch, in particular, cannot have a station built back in its place once it's been popped, to reconnect to the infrastructure below where it was. Is there any way we can have the sector distance from center restriction lifted?

Some default stations were placed before the standardized placement matrix for building was established, so they can have some unique attributes. But yes, I should be able to reduce the lower limit required.

As server operator, you can replace any that are lost. Next time the server is shut down, you can copy over lines for any station modules you want to restore from the universemulti-bak.txt file over to the main universemulti.txt file. Format is:

`X,Y,Z,SX,SY,SZ,Type,Faction,Name,SectorTag

And where 'type' is, 4 is the number you want for command modules. You can also move them around as may be desired.

[Marvin]

Some default stations were placed before the standardized placement matrix for building was established, so they can have some unique attributes.

How hard would it be to move those stations inside the build area? Otherwise, could the station be rebuilt within the build area, leaving the old defenses and other modules to abandonment?

[Vice]

It could certainly be moved by the server operator manually. Just not feasible by he game after the fact, but if I change the tolerances, it'll be possible to put it close/at where it was.

However, the command module also doesn't have to be connected if it can't be. As long as it's close to where it was, it will function like it did before. I am looking into the defensive and placement systems now, will probably work on them today quite a bit, then focus on other things later/tomorrow.

[Rubber Chicken]

Some default stations were placed before the standardized placement matrix for building was established, so they can have some unique attributes.

How hard would it be to move those stations inside the build area? Otherwise, could the station be rebuilt within the build area, leaving the old defenses and other modules to abandonment?

If there was a way to make the constructor allow command module replacement for game-built stations outside the 50k bound, wouldn't that be ideal?

If X-command module at >50k is destroyed, and the module/attachment node it was attached to is still present, then allow build.

This is my guess since I'm obviously not a programmer, but if it could be done that way, it might be easier than repositioning all stations that fall into that category.

[Edited on 1-23-2016 by Rubber Chicken]

[Bodega]

Vice, we had another question.
According to what I read, or rather interpreted, in the dev diary, when a CMD module is destroyed the turrets stay loyal to whichever faction built them, regardless of the replacement CMD module's faction.

For instance, Unbroken destroyed a FDN CMD module, replaced it with an ALC one. The nearby planet's city is now ALC, but do all the other modules that were part of the FDN orbital platform now become ALC or do they stay FDN? Unbroken seemed to report they converted but we weren't sure because they were pretty far out. I'll try testing tonight and see what happens.

[Vice]

The modules should remained tagged to their original faction until destroyed and replaced. Cities operate on a different system. They will be linked to whatever the station command module's faction ID is. Otherwise, they will become neutral (IMG) if no command module is in the sector. Once a command module is built, they will be linked to that station's ID.

[Marvin]

Confirmed ... unless there have been changes. The IM squadron took down a command module and had to then take out the turrets ... very carefully.

[Shadou]

Command modules do have ship-destroying defensive systems (which you've probably noticed if you've fired more than a few round inside the hangar). However, that range is limited vertically outside the command module itself. So one possible option I could apply is expanded that defensive system to cover more area above and below the command module. I'd just need to know how far you want me to take it.

If you choose to take that route, I'd say it needs to be expanded for 1600dM (a little over the distance a weapon can generally fire) above and out to the sides from the station's collision box. That would leave a weak spot below the station that still needs to be defended. The main idea there would be that those powerful ship-killing defenses are directional, and the no-fire zone was only designed to protect those entering and leaving the station.

This would still leave the stations attackable; you could make a hole in the static defenses below the station, and attack the infrastructure and the station directly from there. But that's the point; you'd have to make a hole. Or, in the case of player-built stations, find a hole. You'd still have to use smart placement of turrets to protect your station, but those turrets would only need to be a 180* half-sphere instead of a full 360* sphere of protection.

[Edited on 1-24-2016 by Shadou]

[MiaZ]

I rebuilt one of the Sapphire stations.
I am kind of interested to see how it goes, how long it lasts.
It has a few shields and many weapons systems around.
It won't be easy for a single pilot that's for sure.

The way I see it the only problem is some of the default stations that are a bit far outside of the build area and that you
can't build weapons and shields for.




[Edited on 1-24-2016 by MiaZ]