Fleet not responding to command

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:21 am

Here are some (possible) bugs I've found.

1. Crew member left ship as I was delivering an escape pod to complete a contract.

2. Some stations seem misaligned when using the jump-docking technique. I go through the procedures and end up about 1k above the dock entrance. Corsair station in Agate is one station I can recall at the moment. It seems that reducing the jump exit speed to ~IDSx1 maximum reduces the chance of misalignment. At ~IDSx2 or above it seems to have more chance of happening.
Is this a 'safety feature' to prevent pilots from hot-docking at max velocity? In that case I'll just have to add reducing the jump exit velocity to a safe level as part of the routine.

3. Sierra Warzone. AI fighters on both sides swarm attack the capital ships bringing both down in less than 20 seconds.
Similar results happen during escort missions making them highly likely to fail before the first enemy fighter target can even be reached.

4. Sierra Warzone. Waypoints set up for 'patrol' parameters do not seem to produce enemy fighters. (both as single points and as part of multipoint contracts)
I understand that a deployable sensor is a very helpful tool, but it seems that flying with the friendly ships present at the waypoint or orbiting the waypoint solo does not attract any enemies. I also flew from the waypoint to the station and back again and got no contacts. I also flew a wide search pattern within the sector.
I also get that waiting for/finding the action is part of the deal, but 40+ minutes before I cancelled the mission is a bit much. Cap ships and fighters jumping in as well as weapon's fire can be visually spotted at great distances compared to radar contact, but there wasn't even that.

4. Sierra Warzone. Vonari capital ships have more of a tendency to hit themselves with missiles than to get them into space and flying at one's ship. I'm not sure if the launch points on the opposite side of the model are firing and the missiles are doing an immediate 180 back at the VonC or if the missiles cannot clear the ship's super structure. I also don't know if missiles have proximity detonation, but if they do, the VonC may somehow be forcing it upon launch.

5. Not really a bug, but... Particle cannons seem to have a lower max forward velocity that they 'jam' at compared to Mercenary. What I mean is that (for example) in Mercenary if you flew directly forward too fast, the cannons would not fire. That max forward velocity seems to be even less in Legacy, which is odd considering that the perceived velocity measurements have been scaled up.

6. Commodities. If a station refuses to purchase your commodities, the ALT function to stack said items in that cargo slot with same items in a different slot is not usable.
Conversely, If you have 2 bays of the same item, one purchased from that particular station and one purchased elsewhere, the station will refuse to refund the ones you bought there but will purchase the other. Alt stacking is only available from the bay slot containing the items purchased elsewhere.

Shouldn't a refusal to purchase an item apply to identical items purchased elsewhere as well? Or, should (slightly) reduced-price refunds be available?
It seems to me that if you have 2 bays of the same thing, one purchased at that station and one purchased elsewhere, and you decide you want a reduced-price refund on the ones you bought there, then that would increase the stock level and lower the selling price of the second (bought elsewhere) bay.
Obviously, such a scenario wouldn't be pretty for the seller, but it makes sense.

6. Asteroids and cargo objects sometimes show ship names when targeted.

Anyway, thanks for reading.

[Edited on 1-21-2016 by Rubber Chicken]

[Edited on 1-21-2016 by Rubber Chicken]

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:18 pm

I've experienced bug 2 now and then ... but could never track down the steps which cause it. Mostly because it only happens once ... and then hot-docking is normal.

Bodega · Post by **Bodega** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:25 pm

Hi RC,
#1 - What was his loyalty level? If it's under 100% then they have the potential to leave anytime you dock. Increase their pay to about 200-300% for the fair rate and you should see their loyalty increase pretty quickly, but until it's 100% they may leave. They get paid at the beginning of each cycle, which lasts about 20 minutes. This information pertains to EM, and as far as I know also EL unless Vice changed the code.

#2 - This actually happened to me this morning for the first time, with a gate and and a station. I just thought maybe I wasn't paying attention to my alignment. I usually do my jumps with IDS off, and at around 4000m/s.

#6 - Vice and I have been discussing cargo scanners because mine seems a bit wonky. I can scan ships just fine, but can't scan floating containers, especially drops from enemies. What is your experience with this? It's supposed to show you in white text towards the middle-right of the screen. I can't target the containers, but maybe I am and the name of the container is showing a ship as you stated. I'll go test.

Thanks! Bodega

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:26 pm

Btw, RC ... the hudtext.dat file does work in Legends. I've added it to my list of mods. It comes in handy when collecting water or oxygen.

Serayl · Post by **Serayl** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:41 pm

I've seen some of these - #1 is the big one I have not run into before, likely because I didn't run a lot of pod retrievals in a civvie-frame with crew on board. Perhaps they think the pod is comfier than the ship is!

I always thought #2 was my fault, not the game's - I figured I had misaligned myself slightly somehow and missed the marker as a result.

#3 is a consequence of many changes in Legacy. Capital ships aren't as tough as they were in EM to reduce difficulty for some players, along with the removal of the Fulcrum Torpedo. Combined with longer gun-ranges for fighters and stronger missiles, capitals drop much faster than they ever did in EM.

AI capital ships also should be lobbing missiles at AI fighters now, although I haven't seen an example of that happen yet.

#4a I've run into this same problem under the same contracts. Single-waypoint ones usually work for me, although at times all that spawns is the Vonari-C. I recall the multi-waypoint ones worked properly in previous patches - not sure what happened.

For #4b, I'm 100% certain the cruiser's missile tubes are bugged. My thought was that it's launching them from the ship's centre of mass as opposed to the surface like in EM, but the opposite-site launching makes sense too. Human capitals, from my limited experience fighting them, are not suffering from this problem and do launch missiles at players correctly.

There's also the odd funny consequence with the AI's own missiles - when it kills another AI fighter with an active missile in the air, the AI will retarget to whatever object is closest. If that happens to be a friendly, well - that guy will often eat his wingmate's missile. This has resulted in friendly-AI kills on some of my warzone contracts; hell, I once saw a Vonari-B blow himself up because of retargeting affecting his missile.

#6a is definitely annoying, especially when you're trying to stack things to save hangar space. #6b can be fixed by cycling the target display if need be - my guess is the glitch occurs since the game's assigning the name of the last thing you targeted from the target list as asteroids don't show up there, and thus I think they don't have a "name" in that mode.

Brian Rubin · Post by **Brian Rubin** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:44 pm

So far I've only had one bug:

In the capture flying creatures mission. First, the waypoint it gives me is so close the planet I crash/explode. Even if I manually fly to it, I then find no flying creatures to capture.

Serayl · Post by **Serayl** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:49 pm

From post: 183025, Topic: tid=12248, author=Brian Rubin wrote:So far I've only had one bug:

In the capture flying creatures mission. First, the waypoint it gives me is so close the planet I crash/explode. Even if I manually fly to it, I then find no flying creatures to capture.

The flying creatures' spawn behaviour is governed by RNG, not whether there's an active contract.

As far as the waypoint's concerned, I'd suggest using the PoI function on the left side of the Navmap (click Planet), as it'll always plot a safe exit point for you at the closest side of the planet. You can find the creatures (birds) anywhere on the planet, not strictly inside the defined mission zone.

Hope this helps!

[Edited on 1-21-2016 by Serayl]

Sinbad · Post by **Sinbad** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:53 pm

It's not a bug when the mission waypoint is too close to atmosphere for FTL jumps. Contract waypoints are uploaded to your nav computer based on the location of the contract, but it is up to the pilot to decide if it is safe to FTL jump directly to the waypoint. It may sometimes be necessary to adjust the waypoint for the jump, then continue for the remaining distance flying with normal engine drive. A navigation officer as a crew member will automatically adjust your waypoint to avoid jumping in too close the the atmosphere.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:00 pm

Thanks for checking the hudtext. dat , Marv.

For issue #1. IIRC In Mercenary, it was patched that low-loyalty crew would not jump ship if you were completing an escape pod s.a.r. mission. The reasoning being that completing a contract in open space increased the crew member's loyalty and convinced them to stay aboard for at least 1 more go-'round.
If you complete an escape pod mission, then you are simultaneously docking as well and the crew member (while given an increase in loyalty) still can opt to leave. It's almost like asking for an annulment the moment you get outside the wedding chapel.

Serayl · Post by **Serayl** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:11 pm

From post: 183029, Topic: tid=12248, author=Rubber Chicken wrote:Thanks for checking the hudtext. dat , Marv.

For issue #1. IIRC In Mercenary, it was patched that low-loyalty crew would not jump ship if you were completing an escape pod s.a.r. mission. The reasoning being that completing a contract in open space increased the crew member's loyalty and convinced them to stay aboard for at least 1 more go-'round.
If you complete an escape pod mission, then you are simultaneously docking as well and the crew member (while given an increase in loyalty) still can opt to leave. It's almost like asking for an annulment the moment you get outside the wedding chapel.

Yeah - my experience so far in Legacy was a revolving door of WOs, when I ran warzone contracts in a Raptor. I'd just pick a low-loyalty/high-skill officer since they almost always abandoned ship as soon as I finished the contract and docked again, even if their loyalty was in the low to mid-80s.

It's been a while since I last played EM; I had forgotten that there was a mechanism to promote crew loyalty growth.

E: That reminds me, I did have one odd instance occur. I was flying a military frame, came back from a bugged multi-waypoint contract I had to cancel, and one of my stored officers bailed on me. Sadly, I didn't grab a screenie of it happening.

[Edited on 1-21-2016 by Serayl]

Brian Rubin · Post by **Brian Rubin** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:21 pm

From post: 183027, Topic: tid=12248, author=MCCON wrote:A navigation officer as a crew member will automatically adjust your waypoint to avoid jumping in too close the the atmosphere.

Reheeehealllllly..... I'll have to hire one... Thanks!

Bodega · Post by **Bodega** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:25 pm

From post: 183025, Topic: tid=12248, author=Brian Rubin wrote:So far I've only had one bug:

In the capture flying creatures mission. First, the waypoint it gives me is so close the planet I crash/explode. Even if I manually fly to it, I then find no flying creatures to capture.

A lot of the collection missions, birds, mining, you don't have to perform at the nav point, just get the objective item any way possible. I've done birds all over the place, wherever I find them. Mining, I've mined right outside the station I got the contract at even though the Nav was way further away.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:33 pm

From post: 183034, Topic: tid=12248, author=Bodega wrote:
From post: 183025, Topic: tid=12248, author=Brian Rubin wrote:So far I've only had one bug:

In the capture flying creatures mission. First, the waypoint it gives me is so close the planet I crash/explode. Even if I manually fly to it, I then find no flying creatures to capture.
A lot of the collection missions, birds, mining, you don't have to perform at the nav point, just get the objective item any way possible. I've done birds all over the place, wherever I find them. Mining, I've mined right outside the station I got the contract at even though the Nav was way further away.

Just one question.... If I take a bird collecting mission... does that make me a traitor?

:P:P

Bodega · Post by **Bodega** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:57 pm

From post: 183036, Topic: tid=12248, author=Rubber Chicken wrote:
Just one question.... If I take a bird collecting mission... does that make me a traitor? :P:P

You'd have to ask your peoples.

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:09 pm

Only if it's birds of a feather.

Bodega · Post by **Bodega** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:12 pm

And in the spirit of the bug thread, I've confirmed that the reason I can't cargo scan free containers is a bug with Vice. It'll be fixed in the next patch. I hope he doesn't mind me sharing that information. I wanted to just in case someone else has the same issue.

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:15 pm

Bugs should be posted. If for no other reason than other players can confirm them or even expand on how to duplicate them.

Post by **Vice** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:22 pm

On the waypoint patrol issue where ships do not show up at the waypoints, can someone provide more information on conditions and steps to reproduce? I have tried much of the day today to duplicate this and have had the ships arrive at every waypoint 100% of the time.

I have tried it offline, online, alone online, with another client online, single patrol waypoint, multiple patrol waypoint, Arvoch WZ, and Sierra WZ, Alliance, and Federation. I have been unable to replicate this issue at all. So any advice that will help me duplicate it is appreciated.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:44 pm

I don't recall doing anything other than accepting the contract and proceeding to the waypoint. I did all of the contracts on the Outer Rim US server.

On the single waypoint patrols I've tried, there was a friendly capital ship and support fighters that jumped in as I arrived. I flew 'escort' with the cap for about 15 minutes, then set navpoints to shuttle (non-jumping) between the contract waypoint and the local station. All in all, I spent about 40 minutes before I cancelled.

The multi-point contracts (ie; 5 waypoint / 35 fighters) went something like this:

Jump to the first waypoint and complete it. Jump to the second point and find nothing. There was not even a battle happening at an offset location.
This happened at all local stations in Sierra WZ.

I realise that this is not enough information to duplicate the issue.
If I experience this again, I will try to provide better details
My graphics card is now better and, unlike the rig I mainly used for EM, I can create gameplay videos. If I experience this again, I will either write a report, or email you/post a link to a video - if that's ok.

Serayl · Post by **Serayl** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:52 pm

From post: 183070, Topic: tid=12248, author=Rubber Chicken wrote:I don't recall doing anything other than accepting the contract and proceeding to the waypoint. I did all of the contracts on the Outer Rim US server.

...

The multi-point contracts (ie; 5 waypoint / 35 fighters) went something like this:

Jump to the first waypoint and complete it. Jump to the second point and find nothing. There was not even a battle happening at an offset location.
This happened at all local stations in Sierra WZ.

I realise that this is not enough information to duplicate the issue.
If I experience this again, I will try to provide better details
My graphics card is now better and, unlike the rig I mainly used for EM, I can create gameplay videos. If I experience this again, I will either write a report, or email you/post a link to a video - if that's ok.

Yeah, this is the same thing I was running into. I don't have the means to capture any video, unfortunately.

If you're around later tonight on The Outer Rim RC, we can work on trying to finally pin this issue down and see what's really causing it.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:10 pm

Thanks for the offer Serayl, but due to reasons I'm not going to delve into, if I'm in MP, it's most likely nobody will know it's me.
I mean no offense. I hope you understand.

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:12 pm

Maybe this has something to do with other problems on the Outer Rim. Vice, when you tried to duplicate the problem in MP, which server(s) did you use?

RC, maybe I missed something in your bug report but ... does this only happen on MP?

[Edited on 1-21-2016 by Marvin]

Post by **Vice** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:30 pm

Doesn't appear to be related to any particular server. I did test on Outer Rim though and it also worked 100% of the time for me there.

So there must be some other factor I'm not putting into the equation.

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:32 pm

I've had borked contracts ... but only in MP and only with other players in the same sector. I figured part of it could be attributed to a high ping rate causing dropped packets.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:07 am

I hadn't thought of it until you mentioned it. While I get great ping to the Outer Rim server, my in-house position in relation to the wifi transceiver is far from ideal. There's a few floors and walls blocking the signal + potential for other roommates using internet. Perhaps that's the factor.

I'll be sure to check SP as soon as I can to see if things are in the clear there.