Station / ship collision

[Keitarooo]

I'm wondering if the fact that there is no explosion when a player ship impact a station (at high velocity) is something players/Vice wanted or is it a limitation of the game engine ?

This game is so well done (physics, avionics, planetary entry, ....) but it seems a simple thing like this break the immersion.

So I'm wondering if Vice or any of you have an explanation as to why it is that way ?

[Sinbad]

I think it was developed like that from players feedback... the idea is supposed to be a sort of anti-gravity field that protects stations from collisions. Asteroids are different because they don't have that anti-grav field, so you can explode if you hit an asteroid too fast.

But actually I would prefer as you say... it seems more realistic that you should sustain damage from high impacts. Gentle scrapes would be protected by your shields, but high velocity impacts of a ship crashing into a station should result in some serious damage in spite of shields.

[Marvin]

Indeed, it's a "feedback" issue. You know the old saying: the squeaky wheel gets the grease. But the protection doesn't extend to certain areas of a trade station. For example, try slamming into the upper antenna array at high speed ... unless something has changed since I accidentally did that, it can result in major damage.

[Rubber Chicken]

Back when Flash and I won the last pilot/gunner combo LMS, we got stuck against the local station going a ridiculous amount of speed. We eventually pushed through the station shield layer and were destroyed. This was in the pre-expansion (1.x) version of the game. I don't know if the parameters for station collision were changed for the 2.x version, but my guess is that they weren't.

The area of the station we got stuck in was the space below the docking area where it attaches to the body of the station. If you want to test it, putting your ship's nose into that area and shoving with the afterburners until you spend your fuel or explode would be my suggestion.

[DaveK]

Station shield technology was tweaked after a spate of matter antimatter explosive filled drone attacks at high speed were used to damage/destroy stations - this coupled with complaints about shield damage (and hull damage) caused by scraping the walls of the entrance tunnels finally lead the authorities to act!

The energy absorbance and lateral deflection action of the standard shield matrix was altered so that a ship’s kinetic energy is absorbed by the shield capacitors rather than being deflected away. The rapid deflection caused sufficient structural damage to the ship to cause its power generation units to catastrophically fail resulting in an explosion that inevitably ignited the ships fuel and ammo. The result of the shield matrix recalibration is that the ship slows down very quickly. It’s structural integrity fields and inertial dampers keep both the ship and the pilot – relatively – unharmed. A second side effect is that traversing the relatively narrow entrance tunnels is now safe!

The resultant safety increase was aimed at station safety – mercenary’s improved safety is a side effect of that.

Asteroids don’t have shields . . .

More details can be found in the Official Evochron Merenaries' Technical Guide, available from all good station and city knowledge bases and SeeJay's site

[Keitarooo]

Nice story Davek, thanks for taking the time to write this

So the shield protects the ship from damages, AND going from 4000 speed to 0 almost instantly doesn't even kill the pilot inside ! wow ! superhuman power !

Pilot complained from HUL damage ? Maybe they should learn to pilot instead of rushing in the station and bouncing off the wall until they get in........

Seriously. This game is about a rich gameplay, nice physics, energy management, precision piloting and combat, etc etc.... and you can slow down by bouncing off the wall at 4000 speed, unhurt............

[Iron man]

Try landing inside a constructor station at this speed lol

[DaveK]

or carriers but then enjineers and skyrines are tough nuts

[Keitarooo]

@marvin : "the squeaky wheel gets the grease". I had to look up on wikipedia to see what you mean, haha, I learnt something today

So basically, whiners won. So while we're at it, why not disable damage when entering atmosphere at high speed. And damage from asteroid, and................... every other ship damage except combat ?

I can understand why people don't want to blow up when an AI ship collide with them... but a trade station ? This is a game about piloting a ship... docking at a station, you have to be cafeful or pay the consequences....

@Vice (if he ever read this)
It seems some people agree with this breaking immersion and some fun. I agree more casual players needs no collision at all.

So maybe it could be an option in the game preferences ?

A simple checkbox like "enable real collision", or something like "disable casual whiner mode" If "no real collision mode" is ON, the game engine simply ignore the collision check ? Else you get a percentage damage based on your speed ? (or blow up if too high)

[SeeJay]

I have always requested realistic collision systems. I want it to be hard to dock with high risk.

Using an option "enable real collision" would only work in SP.
In MP it would be like cheating imho.

[Iron man]

As Seejay just said, I think Vice do know about it since a while and certainly have a reason why it stay like that

Ps: technically its possible landingon planets at very high speed....
Player Miaz did post a video about it on the forum: evochron/vidéo/page 1 if you want have a look

[Keitarooo]

As Seejay just said, I think Vice do know about it since a while and certainly have a reason why it stay like that

I would really be glad to know Vice's view on this... not "I think Vice ..."

Ps: technically its possible landingon planets at very high speed....
Player Miaz did post a video about it on the forum: evochron/vidéo/page 1 if you want have a look

I know, I do it all the time, it's fun.
What I was talking about was more : pointing nose directly to ground and full speed until hitting ground, and stop : landed. To make it as unrealistic as station docking is now that is : no worry about collision or speed.

@SeeJay : IMHO, I don't think it's cheating in MP. People who activate the option want realism. If people doesn't want it, no problem. It won't make difference in combat for example, so no disadvantage.


[Edited on 23/11/2015 by Keitarooo]

[Marvin]

There are a lot of options which would make the game more of a simulator ... but which would also greatly increase the size of the download. And probably "break" the game code ... one of Vice's biggest headaches whenever he makes a major change to the game. So many game "modules" are interdependent with other modules that a change can have a serious ripple effect.

The question of when and where a collision causes damage to your ship has been debated since at least Evochron Legends. I think ('though I'm not sure) that Vice weighs his decisions in favor of those "squeaky wheels" who have been here the longest. Not always (I can attest to that). But the "Johnny come lately" (there's another one for you to look up in the Wiki) is less likely to have his (or her) requests implemented ... especially if there is otherwise dissension among the ranks.

[Keitarooo]

Here we go Marvin but that one was easy to understand even for a non-american like me...
Just to make things clear : me, the little and poor johnny-come-lately, doesn't WANT a request implemented :p I'm just talking with the community about ideas (as other have done before me on this forum). I don't want to offense anyone

[Marvin]

The members of this forum, new and old, discuss issues about the game(s). Sometimes "new" suggestions aren't really new ... but they are, nonetheless, considered and debated again. Sometimes, even, decisions are reversed as die-hard players eventually ... move on to something else (which they invariably call "RL").

[DaveK]

As Marvin said - newcomers are not ignored and certainly not because they are new; if an idea has been seriously discussed before (once or several times) in depth then you need to come up with a new slant on why the change might be made this time.

Sometimes it's worth searching for the original thread(s) and seeing how the argument progressed.

Personally, I'm always interested in people's suggestions especially if they are well reasoned and supported with examples of how they benefit the game play for everyone.

[Keitarooo]

Personally, I'm always interested in people's suggestions especially if they are well reasoned and supported with examples of how they benefit the game play for everyone.

Yes I agree with you Davek, hence the "checkbox" in game preference, to allow people to enable or disable collision on station, so "everyone" can be happy

As Marvin said, changing this behavior can, as in every huge code base and complex system, have unintended consequences elsewhere too.

[DaveK]

An option switch so you can choose is a nice idea - because you can't choose to blow up if you're going too fast unlike some of the ideas of things that pop up in thread discussions from time to time - like 'you should have to start all over again when you die because I think respawning is too easy' - so start all over again, if that makes you happy. Whatever increases you enjoyment, but please don't inflict it on the rest of us. (Actually, just don't inflict it on me, thank you! )

[Marvin]

The Debate Continues: If you can be damaged by hitting a trade station (which has a very powerful anti-collision system) then imagine the damage you'd suffer smacking into a ship headed the other way when transiting through a jumpgate. It doesn't happen often ... but once is all it would take to spoil your day. Of course, you could add signal lights to each jumpgate ... and then a subroutine to force players to wait at least 1000 meters from the gate when the light is red. And a similar subroutine could be used to keep players from entering or exiting the wrong docking bay. And an even bigger subroutine for determining the penalty in case you manage to violate said restrictions.

[Sinbad]

Of course, you could add signal lights to each jumpgate ... and then a subroutine to force players to wait at least 1000 meters from the gate when the light is red. And a similar subroutine could be used to keep players from entering or exiting the wrong docking bay. And an even bigger subroutine for determining the penalty in case you manage to violate said restrictions.

Yes! Now you're talking Marvin! Sounds like you'll have your work cut out next weekend adding these subroutines. :D:D

[Marvin]

Right now, everything I do inside the Evochron univers, if it works, is luck. If it doesn't work, it's still luck. My luck. I could never get blinking red lights to work.

Except maybe on our Christmas tree.

[Sinbad]

Right now, everything I do inside the Evochron univers, if it works, is luck. If it doesn't work, it's still luck. My luck. I could never get blinking red lights to work.

Except maybe on our Christmas tree.

:D:D

[DaveK]

If you can be damaged by hitting a trade station (which has a very powerful anti-collision system) then imagine the damage you'd suffer smacking into a ship headed the other way when transiting through a jumpgate. It doesn't happen often ... but once is all it would take to spoil your day. Of course, you could add signal lights to each jumpgate ... and then a subroutine to force players to wait at least 1000 meters from the gate when the light is red. And a similar subroutine could be used to keep players from entering or exiting the wrong docking bay. And an even bigger subroutine for determining the penalty in case you manage to violate said restrictions.

Has anyone tried a head on, high speed collision between two merc ships?? Do you glance off and survive or go boom?

If both ships are jumping then their energy stream might just flow through each other before they rematerialise upon exiting the gate WH field (blue wifty shimmery thing)

I assume that you don't explode when you hit a planet because on the whole planets are soft(ish) and you can go very fast otherwise you burn up

Anything else out there you can hit at high speed and survive (or not?)

In return for not blowing up when scraping the entrance tunnels perhaps we should blow up if we try to jump out of a station

[Marvin]

I've had a number of head-ons while going through a jumpgate. Never even got scratched. Bounced around a lot. But my ship took it all in stride.