Strafe Vs. Inertial?

[DDoutel]

Hey guys,

In trying to set up a control profile for my CH rig, I've run across a distinction I don't understand; what's the difference between inertial motion and the strafe left/right/up/down functionality?

Thanks in advance!
-DDoutel

[Capt_Caveman]

none, same thing

[DDoutel]

none, same thing

Whoa! Thanks for the quick reply, Capt!

[PaulB]

Hey guys,

In trying to set up a control profile for my CH rig, I've run across a distinction I don't understand; what's the difference between inertial motion and the strafe left/right/up/down functionality?

Thanks in advance!
-DDoutel

Seems like a bit of a misnomer to me - but the strafe functions are your methods of vertical & Horizintal Thrust in Inertial mode along with Inertial Forward & Reverse since the only other way to apply thrust in Inertial mode is to Afterburn as changing Engine thrust setting has no direct effect to your speed in Inertial Mode.

[DDoutel]

Hey guys,

In trying to set up a control profile for my CH rig, I've run across a distinction I don't understand; what's the difference between inertial motion and the strafe left/right/up/down functionality?

Thanks in advance!
-DDoutel

Seems like a bit of a misnomer to me - but the strafe functions are your methods of vertical & Horizintal Thrust in Inertial mode along with Inertial Forward & Reverse since the only other way to apply thrust in Inertial mode is to Afterburn as changing Engine thrust setting has no direct effect to your speed in Inertial Mode.

Yeah, it does seem a bit odd. Something else that occurs to me is that we can assign an axis to inertial forward/reverse, but the axis doesn't take into account left and right; these must be assigned somewhere else. Why not use the axis fully? E.G. I should be able to move, say a ministick (which is where I have inertial forward / reverse assigned on my CH Pro Throttle), at a non-cardfinal angle, and get a diagonal thrust in some direction. In other words, combine forward and left to get a diagonal motion.

In short, I'm puzzled...

[Capt_Caveman]

if it helps, I have CH products stick, throttle and peddals.
2 hats on my stick, 1 for strafe 1 for view.
I have buttons on my throttle assigned to;
for/rev int thrust, ids on/off, rev thrust
and my afterburner is tied to my throttle axis.

this gives full control of all thrusters all the time.

[DDoutel]

if it helps, I have CH products stick, throttle and peddals.
2 hats on my stick, 1 for strafe 1 for view.
I have buttons on my throttle assigned to;
for/rev int thrust, ids on/off, rev thrust
and my afterburner is tied to my throttle axis.

this gives full control of all thrusters all the time.

Yeah, going to take inertial fwd/rev off the ministick. I already have the hat on the left side of the stick set to left/right/up/down. Think I'll put fwd/rev on it, too, using shift on the up/down.

[Capt_Caveman]

I tried up dn left right for and rev all on the throttle but I found it was much easier keeping up dn left right on the joystick and for/rev on the throttle.

due to the years of flight sims,
my joystick hand is trained for direction control
and throttle hand is trained for for/rev speed.

when i put up dn left right thrusters on my throttle hand, direction control went from 1 hand to 2.
I could never adapt

[DaveK]

Sorry to but in and I may be wrong but . . . as I understand it, strafe is using thrusters to move your ship perpendicular to the direction you are travelling in without losing your forward speed - you 'crab' through space.

The 'normal' mode of flying is when you let the ships AI control your thrusters to make you fly like an aircraft in an atmosphere. In Inertial mode you travel in proper Newtonian space mode. Examples:

In 'normal' flight, say you're going @ 1200 forward and turn 180 degrees - the AI slows you down to zero and then accelerates you back up to 1200 but now travelling back along your original route. In combat this is the typical newbie tactic of jousting

In inertial mode your ship rotates 180 degrees until you are facing the way you came from and you are now traveling @ 1200 backwards - ie still along your original route. This is the tactic of . . .

The Bait Drift - When outnumbered 5+ bait them into a chase. Do this by flying right at the furthest opponent
(power to full shields) at no less than 2500. When it is within 1500 distance apply full reverse thrust but
don’t turn around until your speed is +500 even when he blows by you. Hit Inertial and turn around.

You are set up perfectly within 1500 distance of all enemy ships and travelling at a speed that keeps your distance constant.
Slowly use inertial forward and left/right strafe to line up on the nearest outside target and eliminate it. Keep a sharp eye out
for missiles. If for any reason you take damage from more than one ship . . . full reverse thrust for 5 seconds.

You can eliminate all hostiles with this method but it does take a lot of patience and can get really boring . . . fast!

So if you fly by a cap ship, travelling faster than the ship, and turn 90 degrees towards it you can hit it with all you cannon as you strafe by it. Or if you are approaching a target hostile in inertial and then apply sideways thrusters you can strafe to stay out of it's cannon fire line and if you face it you slide by crabbing and can hit it.

EDIT: oops, a couple of typos!



[Edited on 21-4-2015 by DaveK]

[DDoutel]

I tried up dn left right for and rev all on the throttle but I found it was much easier keeping up dn left right on the joystick and for/rev on the throttle.

due to the years of flight sims,
my joystick hand is trained for direction control
and throttle hand is trained for for/rev speed.

when i put up dn left right thrusters on my throttle hand, direction control went from 1 hand to 2.
I could never adapt

Heh! I'm in the same boat as you. Flying fighter sims and real aircraft over the years has me left-handed throttle and right hand/pedals for directional control. This is odd for me, and a tough compromise.


[Edited on 4-21-2015 by DDoutel]

[DDoutel]

Sorry to but in and I may be wrong but . . . as I understand it, strafe is using thrusters to move your ship perpendicular to the direction you are travelling in without losing your forward speed - you 'crab' through space.

The 'normal' mode of flying is when you let the ships AI control your thrusters to make you fly like an aircraft in an atmosphere. In Inertial mode you travel in proper Newtonian space mode. Examples:

In 'normal' flight, say you're going @ 1200 forward and turn 180 degrees - the AI slows you down to zero and then accelerates you back up to 1200 but now travelling back along your original route. In combat this is the typical newbie tactic of jousting

In inertial mode your ship rotates 180 degrees until you are facing the way you came from and you are now traveling @ 1200 backwards - ie still along your original route. This is the tactic of . . .

The Bait Drift - When outnumbered 5+ bait them into a chase. Do this by flying right at the furthest opponent
(power to full shields) at no less than 2500. When it is within 1500 distance apply full reverse thrust but
don’t turn around until your speed is +500 even when he blows by you. Hit Inertial and turn around.

You are set up perfectly within 1500 distance of all enemy ships and travelling at a speed that keeps your distance constant.
Slowly use inertial forward and left/right strafe to line up on the nearest outside target and eliminate it. Keep a sharp eye out
for missiles. If for any reason you take damage from more than one ship . . . full reverse thrust for 5 seconds.

You can eliminate all hostiles with this method but it does take a lot of patience and can get really boring . . . fast!

So if you fly by a cap ship, travelling faster than the ship, and turn 90 degrees towards it you can hit it with all you cannon as you strafe by it. Or if you are approaching a target hostile in inertial and then apply sideways thrusters you can strafe to stay out of it's cannon fire line and if you face it you slide by crabbing and can hit it.

EDIT: oops, a couple of typos!



[Edited on 21-4-2015 by DaveK]

This is all great info, DaveK! Not butting in at all! I'll save it for when I have a controller mapping I like and actually have some stick time under my belt...!

[DDoutel]

BTW, you're a great bunch of guys; good to meet ya!

[SeeJay]

Welcome DDoutel.

Hope to see you in Space!

[DaveK]

Sorry to but in and I may be wrong but . . . as I understand it, strafe is using thrusters to move your ship perpendicular to the direction you are travelling in without losing your forward speed - you 'crab' through space.

The 'normal' mode of flying is when you let the ships AI control your thrusters to make you fly like an aircraft in an atmosphere. In Inertial mode you travel in proper Newtonian space mode. Examples:

In 'normal' flight, say you're going @ 1200 forward and turn 180 degrees - the AI slows you down to zero and then accelerates you back up to 1200 but now travelling back along your original route. In combat this is the typical newbie tactic of jousting

In inertial mode your ship rotates 180 degrees until you are facing the way you came from and you are now traveling @ 1200 backwards - ie still along your original route. This is the tactic of . . .

The Bait Drift - When outnumbered 5+ bait them into a chase. Do this by flying right at the furthest opponent
(power to full shields) at no less than 2500. When it is within 1500 distance apply full reverse thrust but
don’t turn around until your speed is +500 even when he blows by you. Hit Inertial and turn around.

You are set up perfectly within 1500 distance of all enemy ships and travelling at a speed that keeps your distance constant.
Slowly use inertial forward and left/right strafe to line up on the nearest outside target and eliminate it. Keep a sharp eye out
for missiles. If for any reason you take damage from more than one ship . . . full reverse thrust for 5 seconds.

You can eliminate all hostiles with this method but it does take a lot of patience and can get really boring . . . fast!

So if you fly by a cap ship, travelling faster than the ship, and turn 90 degrees towards it you can hit it with all you cannon as you strafe by it. Or if you are approaching a target hostile in inertial and then apply sideways thrusters you can strafe to stay out of it's cannon fire line and if you face it you slide by crabbing and can hit it.

EDIT: oops, a couple of typos!



[Edited on 21-4-2015 by DaveK]

This is all great info, DaveK! Not butting in at all! I'll save it for when I have a controller mapping I like and actually have some stick time under my belt...!

I should have put this into the original post - the Bait drift is part of advice from Rooster - it's in the combat section of the Hints&Tips Guide (you can get it from SeeJay's site) - I suck at combat

[Rubber Chicken]

Once you get used to flying in inertial mode, it becomes a lot easier. You can effectively become your own IDS system. Going to the HUD options menu and selecting HVVM + FPM markers both 'on' really helps with visually gauging your ship's attitude.

The HVVM (Horizontal and Vertical Velocity Marker) indicates how much left, right, up, or down your ship is drifting. It is a visual reference that directly correlates with the 'Horizontal' and 'Vertical' velocity gauges that are above the radar screen. Compared to the FPM it is generally the slower-moving of the 2 markers.

The FPM (Flight Path Marker) is a ray -not a line - that emanates from your ship's center. (I'm not sure if it emanates from the true 'center of mass' or the center of the ship model.) It is a visual reference that shows the center point of the streaks that whiz by your cockpit in 'Full HUD mode'. It indicates the true(?) direction your ship is traveling, ie: If you strafe right without moving forward or backward, the FPM will move off the centered forward view of the HUD to the 90 degrees right position. If you mouse-look to the right or use the 'view right' key you should see it there.

Using both in conjunction (especially when they are close to each other) can give a very good sense of what your ship is doing, and help plan your next maneuver.
I often find that drawing an imaginary line between the two, then finding the center of that line is a good way to assess where you're going when traveling (with drift) towards an object/waypoint at high speed.

To make tight turns it inertial mode 'push' the HVVM towards the center of the gunsight - or try to 'lead' the turn with the HVVM - while making the proper forward/reverse velocity adjustments. With practice full-on afterburning with the correct over-steering into the turn can produce very satisfactory results. (Much better than with only inertial forward/reverse thrusters.) At times however, afterburning AFTER you've pointed the nose in the desired direction is the way to go. - You'll have to gauge for yourself when full-on-burn-through-the-turn, or turn-then-burn technique is appropriate for the maneuver you're attempting.

Take note that (for example) strafing down ~800 velocity and to the right at ~800 velocity, will easily translate to strafing either down OR to the right at ~1600 velocity if you ROLL the ship in the desired manner. This is an easy way to gain velocity in one specific direction when needed. Relatively, you will still be travelling on the same 45 degree down-and-to-the-right path, but for purposes of moving towards or away in relation to other objects and/or threats, it is a very effective technique. Often times working with one (perceived) strafing direction at a time makes controlling the ship easier.
*Edit*: In high-velocity drift situations, it is easier to roll the ship until the single-direction h/v velocity divides evenly between the h/v guages, then use h/v inertial thrusters together to bring the strafe under control.

Inertial Mode thrusters also work INDEPENDENTLY from the IDS stabilization thrusters, and are dependent on wing class. Better wings = better strafe - provided your ship's mass doesn't counteract the benefit.
The IDS stability thrusters are in the base frame of the ship and represented by the agility rating seen in the description text in the ship frame selection portion of the Shipyard. These thrusters also account for pitch, roll, and yaw agility regardless of IDS on/off.
One bonus of this independent system, is that you can use the strafing thrusters + the IDS stabilizer thrusters to even further tighten and control your turns when IDS Mode is on. This is very useful for 'fine(er) control' situations like completing racing contracts, or getting better centered when docking with those pesky constructor stations.

I hope this info is useful, and I've written it in a way that makes sense. If I haven't, then let me know, I'll try to clear up any confusion. I do try to be as accurate as my knowledge allows.
As always, if I am wrong about any of this, then hopefully a more experienced pilot, or if needed, Vice can correct my error(s).

Enjoy your flights.



[Edited on 4-22-2015 by Rubber Chicken]

[Edited on 4-22-2015 by Rubber Chicken]

[Edited on 4-22-2015 by Rubber Chicken]

[DDoutel]

Rubber Chicken, all excellent advice and information; what a jewel of a post! Many thanks for all of this; I'll turn on those markers right away, and get to practicing! I've noticed that a representation of your thrust vector marker shows up on the radar screen when it's out of view, but that means you have to focus down into the cockpit to pull it back into view; not ideal at the best of times. The markers should help a lot with this.

The information regarding IDS thrusters being part of the frame and inertial thrusters being based on wing class is very helpful; I was a bit bewildered about shipbuilding in the yard in terms of what i could expect after forking over the cash!

Again, many thanks for a terrifically helpful post!

- DDoutel

[Rubber Chicken]

I'm glad you liked it. I forgot to mention that if you find the point-the-nose-then-afterburn method of flying I mentioned suits you more, then favoring engine class over wing class might be the way to go. Try not to skimp too far in either direction though. I personally favor high class wings and medium class engines, but you'll have to tailor your setup to the flying style you develop.

[DDoutel]

I'm glad you liked it. I forgot to mention that if you find the point-the-nose-then-afterburn method of flying I mentioned suits you more, then favoring engine class over wing class might be the way to go. Try not to skimp too far in either direction though. I personally favor high class wings and medium class engines, but you'll have to tailor your setup to the flying style you develop.

Another great piece of advice, and again, greatly appreciated! I'll definitely put it to use!

Thanks for taking the time with a n00b, Rubber Chicken, DaveK, Captain_Caveman and SeeJay!

-DDoutel

[Beta_ver]

Thanks Rubber Chicken for the advice, that changed a lot on my piloting, especially the straffe thrusters, which I now mapped to my hat, thus allowing thrust combinations for max efficiency ! (instead of the much less useful pan ...)
Great stuff, the evoch E is quite impressive and I still need to learn how to fly this thing, but I now have an idea of what it can do.

One question on that :
if you fly IDS, then the strafe thrusters help regain course faster, so they add up to the IDS system's thrusters I guess.
If you fly inertial, then you use the stafe thrusters to correct course, but that adds up to nothing as IDS is off. at best it might add up with the inertial forward, or the afterburner, but nothing as good as the IDS + strafe when it comes to changing course.
Is this correct, and if so, is it correct to conclude that when it comes to changing course, IDS on + strafe is more efficient than inertial ?
No idea, just asking ...



[Edited on 27-4-2015 by Beta_ver]

[Rubber Chicken]

Yes. I do believe that IDS+strafe is the quickest way to change course and get 'centered' on your new heading. Whether it's the most fuel-efficient way to go about it, I couldn't say.

As far as the Evoch model E goes, be careful. Just because she'll turn on axes like none other, doesn't mean you always should. If you try course-correcting too fast, or get too drastic with your course changes, you'll find yourself with a massive momentum loss and almost no velocity in any direction. - Hence a sitting duck.

Believe it or not, the medium-to-heavy class ships have a bit of an advantage when it comes to nullifying momentum bleed because you can use the extra mass to 'throw' yourself at the next direction you want to go, or help exaggerate the direction you are already traveling if more velocity is desired.

With the lighter-class ships there is more of a need to let the increased responsiveness of the thrusters and afterburner supplement the lack of mass. So... Be patient with your turns in the beginning. And - Don't attempt drastic course changes until you are well-practiced with maintaining the ship's potential/kinetic energy balance. Once you have that down, you'll be an Evoch-E Ace in no time.

____

On a side note: I have recently found a great deal on a respectable gaming desktop, and will finally be able to make some example/training videos.
I'll need to restore the Windows7 to the factory state - (recovery disk is in the mail ) and kick out some $ for an onboard wifi card so, have a bit of patience and hopefully I'll be able to give y'all a look at the flight and combat tactics I've developed.

[Edited on 4-27-2015 by Rubber Chicken]

[PaulB]

Strafe trusters have the most significant effect in Inetrial mode IF you are flying about up to perhaps 1500 or so but the faster you go the less apparent effect they have - I guess because there is just so much inertia to overcome.
But if you flying say 800 in Inertia with Reds coming at you the Thrust Up, Down, Left, or Right for a relavatively short period of time and you will convert you straight forward motion into prettu fast Diagagonal or adjacent motion which great to help throw off hostile weapons tracking.

That's why I don't mylsef go in much for the high speed (1500+) jousting type attacks because it takes so long to do fatal damage - where as I like to get in and get my guns going on a hostile and depending on the ship I may kill on with in my 12 - 23 seconds of combo firing time and can move on to the next target. Doesn't always work out that way though.
Depends no how many are against you in the immediate vacinity. Like Vonari B's are hard to kill while the i's and F's are easier.

[Rubber Chicken]

Yes, the faster you go, the harder it is to keep your inertial drift in check, but if done right - and with a lot of afterburner abuse - higher speeds are achievable. I'm not talking about 'jousting' either. This is full-on turn-and-burn.

I often find myself drifting in one (or a combination of u/d/l/r directions) between 1400 - 1800 velocity, with forward/reverse velocity at around +/- 1400-1800. - Fast enough that most AI fired missiles need to be on a direct impact course to hit, provided they can even catch up or turn with me. I've gone to exclusively using an anti-missile system as insurance and don't even bother firing cm's anymore. With the amount of afterburner abuse and heat generated I should be a missile magnet, but I'm just too fast. If anything the warning indicator with beep double-time until the missile times-out or the AMS takes it down.

---

Von-B's are harder to take down because they are the Bomber class of the Vonari fleet. They have significantly more armor.

[Marvin]

But if you flying say 800 in Inertia with Reds coming at you the Thrust Up, Down, Left, or Right for a relavatively short period of time and you will convert you straight forward motion into prettu fast Diagagonal or adjacent motion which great to help throw off hostile weapons tracking.

They also come in handy when the enemy has damaged your main engines. I usually engage inertial and hold down the Up button 'till I'm clear.