Military Frames

[PaulB]

The last time I discussed TC I was in a copy of my Mammoth but to get a feel for Talison.

Well my back all of a sudden got some better last week so I've been able to get back in the game and decided to take my "main playing Mammoth) and leave Olympus (turned Good rating) and tackle Cerulean (I've turn in Good during the past week also ) and then I decided to go to Talison Conflict and get some military rating on this ship. I'm up to Lt. Cmdr but I just can't complete a Defend Cap Ship to Jump Point contract no matter what I try.
One big disadvantage from my POV is when I entered TC I had a load of Exodus missiles - and I see some more in the Station when I 1st arrive - but once I use them up (on the easier contracts to get started) there are no longer any available in either of the TC stations - only Leech and Excalibers - so I just swap in the Excaliber I brought with me since I'm rather skeptical on the Leech's usefulness. I think the Excals get me in trouble cause on two occasions I've had a runt of a Shrike turn Hostile on me and I tired of avoiding them and just punched their clocks for them.

Anyway these are basically the things I've tried on the Defend CAP ship contracts as best as I can recollect the events.

(1) I just go in and try to tackle the Vonari hostiles along with the AI forces - and I end up failing the contract in a pretty short period of time.

(2) I go in and try to stick rather close to the CAP ship (but maybe I end up letting myself get dragged away on a chase - not sure) and still n a pretty short time the Cap ship is knocked out and I lose the contract.

(3) I went in with 2 AI Wingmen of my own but arrived half a Nav point away from the engagement as suggested in my prior thread by Marvin but maybe we misunderstood each other because on the Contracts I'm referring to the other night there was no Vonari Cruiser, just the Vonari Hostiles attacking the CAP ship and AI's going after the Vonari.
Anyhow, I sent my Wingmen on in ahead of me to attack the Hostiles also and I just kinda proceeded in in no big rush.
Well that tactic didn't work either and the contract failed.

It's kinda looks like the AI have a one track mind and tend to bunch up and just got after one or two Vonari away from the CAP ship leaving something like 2 or 3 Vonari attacking the CAP ship and even with the Excals and some powerful Guns & Beams they knock out the CAP ship before I can get all the Vonari attacking the CAP ship.

Should I try the Leech missiles since I can fire them singly and forget the Excals?

Or what am I doing wrong?

Should I still hang back from the fight initially aka Marvin if their is no Vonari Cruiser in the mix or is that tactic only for that situation?

Or should I force myself to stick close to the Cap Ship and not go chasing any Vonari?

One thing I see is the Mammoth just can't give much of a chase to a Vonari that really wan to get out of your range but I refuse to give up my Mammoth - at least until the times comes that I can Hangar my Mammoth + Crew and try a Military frame.

[Edited on 8-12-2014 by PaulB]

[MiaZ]

I would stay close and don't chase.
The Mammoth is a bit slow for this type of mission but its probably doable just a bit harder then faster ships.

Get some Exodus or star fire missiles for fast kills. Forget the excals and Leech they are not very helpful here.
Rage missiles can be useful though. Lynx can be useful but nothing is as good as exodus for escort contracts.
If you have to, leave the sector and find somewhere else to buy them.


If there is no Vonari Cruiser in there it should not be too hard. They put a a lot of damage on your Cap ships shields and even just 1 fighter can take it down if you are not fast enough to get him to break off the attack.

Targeting and firing on a fighter that is attacking your Cap will sometimes make them break off, so if you have 3 on your cap, go from one to enough firing a few shots at them before picking one to stay on for the kill.

The Mammoth is a bit slow so you can't chase them if they run.


Here I do use excals but that's only because I have a much faster ship.
Escort in warzone :>
http://youtu.be/0VtyeXtmi6w

non warzone escort using Viper missiles:>
http://youtu.be/G_ugLXAkWxo





[Edited on 8-10-2014 by MiaZ]

[PaulB]

I would stay close and don't chase.
The Mammoth is a bit slow for this type of mission but its probably doable just a bit harder then faster ships.

Get some Exodus or star fire missiles for fast kills. Forget the excals and Leech they are not very helpful here.
Rage missiles can be useful though. Lynx can be useful but nothing is as good as exodus for escort contracts.
If you have to, leave the sector and find somewhere else to buy them.


If there is no Vonari Cruiser in there it should not be too hard. They put a a lot of damage on your Cap ships shields and even just 1 fighter can take it down if you are not fast enough to get him to break off the attack.

Targeting and firing on a fighter that is attacking your Cap will sometimes make them break off, so if you have 3 on your cap, go from one to enough firing a few shots at them before picking one to stay on for the kill.

The Mammoth is a bit slow so you can't chase them if they run.


Here I do use excals but that's only because I have a much faster ship.
Escort in warzone :>
http://youtu.be/0VtyeXtmi6w

non warzone escort using Viper missiles:>
http://youtu.be/G_ugLXAkWxo





[Edited on 8-10-2014 by MiaZ]

Thanks, I haven't had much of a problem with escort missions in Olympus or Cerulean - it's only in TC.
I'll try your suggestions.
I'm also going to use a spare pilot profile to see if the new version release will let me store my Mammoth and retain the Crew while purchasing a Military frame.
I hope it will but I'm not quite sure from Vice's description if that's the case or not.

[Nigel_Strange]

Vonari are much faster and tougher than civilian foes. They do like to use hit-and-run tactics. Then, they lead you away from the target zone while they send others to attack the capital ship.

Unfortunately, Starfires, though good against civilians, are not very good against Vonari, unless you get their shields down first. I would go with Exodus.

Rage missiles would be an excellent choice, because they like to hold position near the capital ship and fire, so if you can disable their weapons, it will not be such a tough fight. The only drawback with Rage missiles is that you can't always find them.

So, good calls on the part of Miaz.

[Busch]

PaulB, Starport 1103 (it's the hard-wired one almost due south of the TCZ jump gate) in Talison Prime generally has a supply of Exodus missiles. That is, unless the systems' economy (in MP) has been 'juiced'. If that, it'll be a coin-toss what's available. And yes, the newest EM version release does allow crew 'parking' whilst otherwise engaged with another frame.

[PaulB]

PaulB, Starport 1103 (it's the hard-wired one almost due south of the TCZ jump gate) in Talison Prime generally has a supply of Exodus missiles. That is, unless the systems' economy (in MP) has been 'juiced'. If that, it'll be a coin-toss what's available. And yes, the newest EM version release does allow crew 'parking' whilst otherwise engaged with another frame.

What I notice is that after dong a few contracts and after I've used up what missiles I have (Starfire, Rockeye, Exodus) both stations just stop stocking them and all thats left even after doing continued contracts is that all they stock are Leech, Lynx, and Excals.
The Leech do seem useful but I don't like the Excals and I can't see why there are none of the 5 main killer missiles, Echelon, Viper, Rockeye, Starfire, and Exodus on a regular basis. I've never seen a Rage in TC - in fact, due to my limited tavel maybe, I think I've only seen Rage in Pearl.
The Starfires when I have them do a fair job in TC - it may take 2 or 3 on a Vanari B.
I tried a Fulcrum Torpedo - but I guess I don't know how to use it cause I couldn't kill anything with it - except myself on the 1st try when I didn't get away fast enough.
Do you have to be close enough to "Target" one of the hostiles? I thought I was - I was going in reverse and they were chasing me and I think they got within 2000 meters when I fired on my last attempt - but it didn't kill any of them and I don't think it even damaged them. I don't know what I was doing wrong.
And why is there the delay in firing the thing?

[Marvin]

One of the big reasons there is a delay with FTs is to allow other players time to react to the message and warp to a safe part of the sector. The other reason has to do with preventing some players from making use of what used to be a loophole in FT deployment.

As for when you deplete a missile supply, you have two options: (1) wait for the message stating that new items are available at the station or (2) buy and store (at the station) a supply of the missile prior to taking the contract.

[PaulB]

One of the big reasons there is a delay with FTs is to allow other players time to react to the message and warp to a safe part of the sector. The other reason has to do with preventing some players from making use of what used to be a loophole in FT deployment.

As for when you deplete a missile supply, you have two options: (1) wait for the message stating that new items are available at the station or (2) buy and store (at the station) a supply of the missile prior to taking the contract.

I've been buying extras for my cargo bays but as I said - after doing a few contracts AND if you then use up all the (starfires, Exodus) in your Hardpoints (even if you DO have some in your cargo bays, then the stations in TC will never stock those again as far as I can tell - and that's through all the time it took to make Lt. Cmdr.
I did do as suggested and jump back to Talison and restock there a few times. I can't recall if after restocking in T. Prime that the stations in TC began to stock them for a while (until you used them all). But once gone in TC, they are gone (for as long as I stayed there).

[Edited on 8-12-2014 by PaulB]

[Marvin]

You can also store five at the local trade station. That's five at the station, five in cargo, and eight on your secondary hard points. If you dare, you can also jettison a load, save the location to your log, then pick them up with the tractor beam, as required.

[PaulB]

You can also store five at the local trade station. That's five at the station, five in cargo, and eight on your secondary hard points. If you dare, you can also jettison a load, save the location to your log, then pick them up with the tractor beam, as required.

Now that's devious -- I'd never have thought of that but I'm not sure it helps if it's the situation that the station has them - they will continue to be there until (a) you've bought them all plus (b) fired them all and at that point they stop stocking them.
It seems that if you retain one in your hardpoints that the station (Carrier usually) will stock them - but the problem becomes that your ship has taken damage and you risk getting killed do you use that last missile to save the day.
Having some in the cargo bay and the hardpoints used up won't cause the station to stock them.
I tried to retain one - but at times I had little choice but to use them all. Note I'm not extravagant with missile - I've been through many contract without firing any - but when the Vonari gang up on you and several of the are Vonari B's then you have to use all your tools - or I do.
I can't for the life of me fly using Pitch/Roll for maneuvering in combat - when I try to use Roll as one of the main controls I can never tell when to Stop Rolling so I have my Left gamepad Stick set to be Pitch and Turn and I can fairly well use that combination to chase hostiles. I just can't mange it using Pitch & Roll and with the Gamepad there is no way I can use all 3 (my Roll is currently set on the two analog Trigger buttons).
I even tried at one time to set the Left Stick to Pitch/Roll and the Right Stick (left/Right) to Turn or swapping the Roll & Turn between the two Sticks and I still just end up getting lost during combat.
And in non-combat I can't even use Pitch/Roll to align up on Station entrances but I can using Pitch/Turn. Even when I tried the Logitech 3D extreme pro configured normally I couldn't do any better using Roll. If I could keep the Target in view I might could but once I lose sight I'm just lost as to when to stop Rolling.
So that's why I may not be as proficient in combat as some more dexterous players may be.

[Edited on 8-12-2014 by PaulB]

[PaulB]

I want to make sure I'm understanding military frames.
In the Shipyard is the Fuel Tank the only thing can be changed?

[Marvin]

Even when I tried the Logitech 3D extreme pro configured normally I couldn't do any better using Roll.

Yeah, that would be a problem. Rolling a ship toward your lift vector is kind'a the first skill you should learn.

[DaveK]

I want to make sure I'm understanding military frames.
In the Shipyard is the Fuel Tank the only thing can be changed?

I think so. They were made 'better' than the equivalent civ frames so the theory is they are already specced as highly as possible.