SPOILER

PaulB · Post by **PaulB** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:50 am

Could I get some advice on how to deal with defending a CAP ship in Talison Conflict?

It's not the same as a defend mission in say Oympus.
And I generally try to head toward the CAP ship and target the closest Hostile and try to take them out. But IN TWZ, even with the navy helping, (I guess the Vonari are a lot tougher) it seems like when I go after a close RED than others try to get behind or above me and start hammering me.
And the blasted Navy - those idiots all seem to band together and take off after a RED that takes off and the other REDs usualy end up taknig out the CAP ship before I can do a hack of a lot - especially if there are one of those Vonari-C (is that the big mother?) attacking the CAP ship.
Out of about 5 or so Defend missions I tried I think only one was successful.
The Contract say that there are approx 4 or 5 enemy - but there seems more than that to me - but maybe I'm confusing seeing some of the Navy as REDs and thinking there are more Vonari than there really are.

But what are some good proceedures for doing the Defend missions there? I don't mean Inertial, etc. I always try to use Inertial when I can until I have to use IDS or Afterburn to get back to the scene or on another target.

I mean things like, should I go after a target until I kill it or shoujld a stay near the CAP ship even if my current target takes off if I gun him some? Or go after the Vonari-C mother 1st or last or what?

The only things I'm doing more or less ok at is the, umm I forget the wording, something like "a conflict has arisen and mercenary help is need on the scene" and you jump in and help out the Navy. Those I'm doing semi-ok on (not killing as many as I would like but some) and completing the mission. And I'm doing ok on any Vonari I just happen to come across in ones or twos out flying around.

Help would be appreciated.

Also, I jump to TWZ with a load of Rockeys and Starfire Missiles and until I used them all up they were available when I needed more (at the Carrier I think it was) along with sme Exodus.
But after a while I couldn't find any at either station nor at the Trade station I Built. All there were from then on were Fulrcums, Excals, Leech and Lynx - the last two I wouldn't give you a plug nickle for.
What's up with the lack of missiles?

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:28 am

Plot a jump point about half a cursor away from the set NAV point. Jump ... then slowly approach the combat area. Watch the battle. For some reason, the Navy does a better job of taking out the Vonari escort when you loiter at a distance. If you wait long enough, only the Vonari cruiser (if one is in the area) will remain.

PaulB · Post by **PaulB** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:41 am

From post: 170813, Topic: tid=11446, author=Marvin wrote:Plot a jump point about half a cursor away from the set NAV point. Jump ... then slowly approach the combat area. Watch the battle. For some reason, the Navy does a better job of taking out the Vonari escort when you loiter at a distance. If you wait long enough, only the Vonari cruiser (if one is in the area) will remain.

Very kind of you and much appreciated.

Paul

MiaZ · Post by **MiaZ** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:52 am

It be good to learn how to do these escort protect missions the other way too.
Some places there is no friendly AI to help and that method would not work in those case.

I think it best to stay close and don't chase enemy very far if at all.
You can sometime get their attention and drift a little way off, some will group around you and away from the Cap ship you are protecting but you need to stay close for fighters that continue to attack it.
Also remember, enemy re-enforcements can jump in, if you cant get to them in time they can do a lot of damage.

Sometimes you will get 3 or 4 all firing on your transport at the same time.
You can target one, then do damage to him enough to make him break off the attack then move to the next one to get him to break off.

If not many attaching the Cap at the same time its safe to stay on one target until its dead
but I still wouldn't chase it if it runs.

Rage missiles can be useful for protect/escort missions.
Always target their Weapon subsystem in any case.

If there is an enemy Cap around it might be tempting to try to take it out because it will lower your Cap
ship shields very fast making it very vulnerable but it not likely you can destroy it fast enough to save your Cap.
Instead concentrate only on the fighters.

Escort missions are in my opinion the hardest of them all but that also makes them lots of fun.

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:03 am

I always stay close and kill them one by one when within range. No chasing.

If I have time (No fighters) I try to bring the shields down on the enemy Cap ship along the side that is facing the ship I'm defending
allowing their weapons to do more damage. If fighters jump in, concentrate on them instead.

I agree with MiaZ, those missions are great fun!

Nigel_Strange · Post by **Nigel_Strange** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:29 pm

Fulcrum torp them

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:29 pm

There goes the Navy and the ship you're supposed to escort!

picommander · Post by **picommander** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:10 pm

From post: 170813, Topic: tid=11446, author=Marvin wrote:Plot a jump point about half a cursor away from the set NAV point. Jump ... then slowly approach the combat area. Watch the battle. For some reason, the Navy does a better job of taking out the Vonari escort when you loiter at a distance. If you wait long enough, only the Vonari cruiser (if one is in the area) will remain.

Might be work in Talison WZ dunno, but surely not in Arvoch WZ (K745).
I guess Nigel was just kidding btw...

Post by **Marvin** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:20 am

Actually, it probably does work in Arvoch. I scripted an escort contract either for Arvoch or Sierra (I forget which) and, it attempting to test the script, found that I couldn't complete the contract myself ... so I scripted an alternate option for those who, like me, would get frustrated trying to complete the quest mod. Unfortunately, I still had to complete the contract before I could complete the test ... and the only way I could do it was as described above.

PaulB · Post by **PaulB** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:07 am

Well I don't know what's wrong with my brain but i can't for the life of me fight (and fly for that matter) if I have my Stick configured "correctly".

I'm not a stupid person and I was in Electronics, Computers - the hardware side, plus some years of programming, in one form or another since I was 16 years old. I used to do those build projects in Popular Electronics and Electronics Illustrated and all the others. At one point I had a 15Mhz dual trace Heathkit oscilloscope, Signal generators, Transistor Curve Tracer and gobs of other stuff I either built myself or bought.
And also I use to play Keyboads on various rock bands in my teens, tweenties.
So I have some tallant if not 1st rate.

But Flight control???
The only way I can half-ass pull it off is by setting my Pitch to Inverse and Stick left/right = Yaw and the 2 analog triggers on my gamepad to Roll.
I absolutely can not fly using the typical Pitch/Roll for making "tighter" turns. And with non-inverted Pitch I end up pitching in the wrong direction. It's like my brain is plugged in backwards - maybe it is.
Maybe the Elevation Ladder confuses me (direction movement wise).

[Edited on 6-6-2014 by PaulB]

picommander · Post by **picommander** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:21 am

From post: 170829, Topic: tid=11446, author=Marvin wrote: Actually, it probably does work in Arvoch. I scripted an escort contract either for Arvoch or Sierra (I forget which) and, it attempting to test the script, found that I couldn't complete the contract myself ... so I scripted an alternate option for those who, like me, would get frustrated trying to complete the quest mod. Unfortunately, I still had to complete the contract before I could complete the test ... and the only way I could do it was as described above.

I'm currently in Arvoch and tried your method multiple times. The escort ship was always destroyed long before the last Navy ship was destroyed. All Navy ships are green here btw (I'm on SP) and always lose the fight when I do nothing. If you were actually talking about Arvoch WZ then the question would be: Why does it work for you but not for me? I assume you do your script testing also in SP.

picommander · Post by **picommander** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:03 am

From post: 170811, Topic: tid=11446, author=PaulB wrote:Could I get some advice on how to deal with defending a CAP ship in Talison Conflict?

[snip]

But after a while I couldn't find any at either station nor at the Trade station I Built. All there were from then on were Fulrcums, Excals, Leech and Lynx - the last two I wouldn't give you a plug nickle for.
What's up with the lack of missiles?

I wouldn't say I'm all too successful on this, but I'm slowly improving. I'm doing WZ missions in a sluggish starmaster which I guess is sub-optimal but I don't wanna lose my crew. I'm also a cheap-supplier that's why I always stick to Excals. On a positive side I never depend on any missile stock..

Here's what I do if there's Navy support: On arrival or as soon as possible I pick up the nearest Vonary ship (but not the C-type) and destroy it with Excals. This usually increases the odds that the Navy ships will get into superior number and win the battle. But with 7 estimated enemies (+ the obligatory Vonary-C of course) on Arvoch WZ I only did it once so far. I can't be passive there even if I wanted cause the Vonary are very aggressive here and start to hunt me down. The one time I won was where for some reason the escort ship survived long enough, though all Navy ships where already destroyed and still 4 or 5 Vonary fighter left (+ the C-type). Fortunately they where all after me and let the escort ship alone at this point. After destroying the Fighter ships I managed to destroy the Vonary-C alone, something I need incredible look for: Finding the blind spot and killing its weapon systems soon enough. The rest is easy then.

I think you just should give it some more time. We are both no veterans and these escort missions are truly not easy (and btw should be rewarded a lot better IMHO). But as long as you still bicker with your controller (are you actually using a game pad?) I'd recommend doing less difficult contracts until you've got that straight.

PaulB · Post by **PaulB** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:43 am

From post: 170832, Topic: tid=11446, author=picommander wrote:
From post: 170811, Topic: tid=11446, author=PaulB wrote:Could I get some advice on how to deal with defending a CAP ship in Talison Conflict?

[snip]

But after a while I couldn't find any at either station nor at the Trade station I Built. All there were from then on were Fulrcums, Excals, Leech and Lynx - the last two I wouldn't give you a plug nickle for.
What's up with the lack of missiles?

I wouldn't say I'm all too successful on this, but I'm slowly improving. I'm doing WZ missions in a sluggish starmaster which I guess is sub-optimal but I don't wanna lose my crew. I'm also a cheap-supplier that's why I always stick to Excals. On a positive side I never depend on any missile stock..
Here's what I do if there's Navy support: On arrival or as soon as possible I pick up the nearest Vonary ship (but not the C-type) and destroy it with Excals. This usually increases the odds that the Navy ships will get into superior number and win the battle. But with 7 estimated enemies (+ the obligatory Vonary-C of course) on Arvoch WZ I only did it once so far. I can't be passive there even if I wanted cause the Vonary are very aggressive here and start to hunt me down. The one time I won was where for some reason the escort ship survived long enough, though all Navy ships where already destroyed and still 4 or 5 Vonary fighter left (+ the C-type). Fortunately they where all after me and let the escort ship alone at this point. After destroying the Fighter ships I managed to destroy the Vonary-C alone, something I need incredible look for: Finding the blind spot and killing its weapon systems soon enough. The rest is easy then.

I think you just should give it some more time. We are both no veterans and these escort missions are truly not easy (and btw should be rewarded a lot better IMHO). But as long as you still bicker with your controller (are you actually using a game pad?) I'd recommend doing less difficult contracts until you've got that straight.

Well if it helps I destroyed one Vonari-C and this is how as best I recall.
The battle had been going on and I went in on it's tail. I don't kow that I ever got close enough to hit it with gunfire but I got fed up anyway and I don't recall if i had the Excals or just a load of rockeyes and starfires. I think the latter and I unloaded all 8 in to the rear and it blew the hell out of it but it or some fighters or something got me so i lost anyway.
I maybe have destroyed another - I'm not sure - but if I did it was with a load of excals.

Out of about 4 or 5 or 6 tries at Defend contracts I only completed one - and it probably wasn't from a trememdous effort on my part and it may not have had a Vonari-C going after the CAP ship.
To be honest - not being able to get any more Rockeyes and Starfires or Exodus was a big hindrance to me. I don't think they ever brought down more than one hostile and then I'm up the creek. In Olympus I could get by without using missiles most of the time - but in TWZ it's harder to kill the Vonari and I guess I'm only mediocre. I think it's because of my attack strategy - I just jump to the waypoint most of the time cause I couldn't see that jumping a bit ahead helped much and just went right in.
But I lke single missiles cause I might do decent damage with gunfire then fire a missile and move on to other hostiles faster to protect the CAP ship - and that's the main goal - not trying to see how many REDs I can take out with Gunfile.
I hate the cost of the missile too - but 3 - 5000 a shot is not that big a price to pay on a 140k to 400k contract.
I envy the guys to have billions but it must have taken a hell of a time to get it - cause on my main profile I only have ~600+ mil. and on the profile I've used to try my hand in TWZ I only have ~400+mil.
I still absolutely hate that hiring wingmen (at my credit level) cost 150k+ per wingman per payperiod.
I would like the fun of having some wingmen - but not when you can't even break even.
Also as you said about the Starmaster - I have one but I've been sticking with the Mammoth cause fo the bit extra agility rating - I wish the Starmaster had all it's features plus at least the agility of the Mammoth. I hate only having 25 CMs - but then there's a lot I don't like about the equip limitations of all the frames. Sorry, but that's how I feel.

Post by **Marvin** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:27 pm

From post: 170830, Topic: tid=11446, author=PaulB wrote:Well I don't know what's wrong with my brain but i can't for the life of me fight (and fly for that matter) if I have my Stick configured "correctly".

If, at any time, you've used cursor keys to fly, I can understand your problem. Especially if you used the "down" key to dive and the "up" key to climb. Old habits are hard to break.

Post by **Marvin** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:34 pm

From post: 170835, Topic: tid=11446, author=PaulB wrote:I hate the cost of the missile too - but 3 - 5000 a shot is not that big a price to pay on a 140k to 400k contract.
I envy the guys to have billions but it must have taken a {expletive} of a time to get it....

Not really. You don't get rich doing contracts. Those players who have billions usually get them doing a couple hours of lucrative trade runs.

Iron man · Post by **Iron man** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:45 pm

From post: 170811, Topic: tid=11446, author=PaulB wrote: I envy the guys to have billions but it must have taken a hell of a time to get it - cause on my main profile I only have

Well to be honest having B for most of people was only for (was) getting the last Civil rank quickly. After what you can do with B. Not that much finally when you know the things you can buy the most expensive equipment is under 20M.....
Yes major price upgrade by the money or your rank you ve got but really finally what's the point being Billionaire ahah

Stay like you are. Having the pressure missing some money it's quite enjoy full.

picommander · Post by **picommander** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:19 pm

That's my song, Iron man! I think I never did any trade runs in this game, maybe 30 minutes in total. Somehow I love being a poor guy but I hate when money stops having any meaning at all (in games and in reality)...

Major Grubert · Post by **Major Grubert** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:54 pm

going deep exploring constantly is very expensive

picommander · Post by **picommander** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:14 pm

Not for me. I've had my best business in deep space so far. Of course I need random AI encounters. I dunno where 'deep space' actually starts for you. Might be so deep that there are no other ships around anymore? I seem to recall Dave told my something in that line and he is (was?) going really deep... For me deep space starts anything above +- 5k sectors (or anything outside the sector map).

Post by **Marvin** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:53 pm

From post: 170831, Topic: tid=11446, author=picommander wrote:I'm currently in Arvoch and tried your method multiple times. The escort ship was always destroyed long before the last Navy ship was destroyed. All Navy ships are green here btw (I'm on SP) and always lose the fight when I do nothing. If you were actually talking about Arvoch WZ then the question would be: Why does it work for you but not for me? I assume you do your script testing also in SP.

I just now completed an escort contract in the Arvoch WZ (SP) and never got closer than about 5K from the designated combat area. As it turns out, the difficulty in escorting a capital ship in Arvoch is with the Vonari reinforcements. By staying out of radar range of the main battle, you can intercept the reinforcements ... leaving the naval escort to protect the cap ship. If you're lucky, the Navy will attack the Vonari cruiser, forcing the Von interceptors and bombers to go on the defensive. Either way, as long as you continue to engage the reinforcemtents before they have the opportunity to go on the offensive, there's a good chance you'll complete the contract.

picommander · Post by **picommander** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:53 pm

Back to the topic (but in Arvoch) I tried again and for the last time (I guess I've tried 5 times now in total) what Marvin said but it just doesn't work for me. Right now it also was the first time where I managed to finish this contract in a clean and controlled way (no hull damage in the end) how I think this has to be done:

Jump directly to the pre-generated jump point with full energy to shields and zero throttle (even with half a cursor away it can happen that you directly jump next to the Vonari-C). Once you arrive head to the allied cruiser. On your way check out the Vonari fighter that is closest to the cruiser and send him a missile. This time when I arrived I counted 6 Vonari (Vonari-C not included) and only 4 Navi ships (seems I've got some reinforcements: when I left the situation was clearly in favor of Navy). I focused strictly on disturbing the Vonari fighters that where attacking the cruiser and didn't care about killing anything here, that's not the point of this mission. Most Vonari will try to lure you away from the cruiser, just don't follow them. They will come back though so you'll always have to check your 6. Just keep being focused and aggressive against all attackers of the cruiser. Since I don't need to kill anything I keep my energy all assigned to the shields (I've got my few kills anyway, as a 'by-product'

). Once the contract is finished fire your afterburner and get out of the heat, jump back to station and enjoy your victory. No need to take care about the ships that are still fighting there. But don't get me wrong, there's some furious action involved, no cake-walk!

EDIT:
OK Marvin, just saw we fired our post the same time, so I'll give it another shot and try to keep the 5k distance...
Would be nice to know if there's more than one method!

[Edited on 6-6-2014 by picommander]

picommander · Post by **picommander** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:14 pm

In an attempt to disprove Marvin's method I seem to have found a third (actually a variant of Marvin's) method: The name of the game is "occupy the Vonary reinforcements". Note that I wasn't quite sober when making this vid (one bottle of red wine, 14% Vol)

Drunken Sailor

oops wrong movie but here we go.
Hope you enjoy (and bear with) some of my really stupid and sluggish reactions. At least it should prove that also non expert pilots should be able to do this mission. This is the Late Night Escort Mission

MiaZ · Post by **MiaZ** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:58 pm

From post: 170854, Topic: tid=11446, author=picommander wrote:In an attempt to disprove Marvin's method I seem to have found a third (actually a variant of Marvin's) method: The name of the game is "occupy the Vonary reinforcements". Note that I wasn't quite sober when making this vid (one bottle of red wine, 14% Vol)

Drunken Sailor

oops wrong movie but here we go.
Hope you enjoy (and bear with) some of my really stupid and sluggish reactions. At least it should prove that also non expert pilots should be able to do this mission. This is the Late Night Escort Mission

Love those sounds.
Did you do them, would you share a link, please?

PaulB · Post by **PaulB** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:39 am

From post: 170847, Topic: tid=11446, author=Marvin wrote:
From post: 170835, Topic: tid=11446, author=PaulB wrote:I hate the cost of the missile too - but 3 - 5000 a shot is not that big a price to pay on a 140k to 400k contract.
I envy the guys to have billions but it must have taken a {expletive} of a time to get it....
Not really. You don't get rich doing contracts. Those players who have billions usually get them doing a couple hours of lucrative trade runs.

Oh, I know. I'm just not able to sit for hours and hours doing runs to amass that amount.
I myself did Runs to get up to around 200+mil then a month or so later did some more to get up to 400+ mil and the last a month or so back I did to bring me up to 600+ mil, and I expect I'll keep to that kind of plan. Although the more money I get the more frustrated I get at the cost of things, especially Hanger fees and Wingmen (which I have given up cause there's no way to break even using them).

picommander · Post by **picommander** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:01 am

From post: 170855, Topic: tid=11446, author=MiaZ wrote:
Love those sounds.
Did you do them, would you share a link, please?

from my favorite "space radio side": Think internet radio (you'll always get something different):

http://electro-music.com/radio/

But be warned, some of that stuff can be *extremely* alien sometimes. You'd better bookmark a selection to have a quick 'emergency switch'.

Here a couple of links directly copied from my winamp bookmarks (not sure if they work for you, if not try to copy them into winamp):

http://srv3.electro-music.com:8500/
http://srv3.electro-music.com:8050/
http://voxsc1.somafm.com:8054/
http://50.7.96.138:8530/stream/

These are all "live-streams", means you'll never know what you get.
The sound in the vid is from the first one.

enjoy!

(these channels are mainly chosen with deep space exploring in mind)

Edit:

Here's another interesting source for ambient sounds:
http://www.internet-radio.com/stations/ambient/

[Edited on 7-6-2014 by picommander]