Question about multiplayer

[opiumskittles]

My friend and I got this a while ago to play multiplayer. When we learned that the overall health of any given system wasn't really being affected by our actions like it does in single player we kinda gave up on the game. I read that it was done on purpose since a player's single player and multiplayer profiles were the same.

Has this system been changed at all? Can we affect the universe in multiplayer?

[Vice]

Details on the structure of those systems are below (taken from earlier threads, discussions, and debates which helped establish the decisions and basis for its eventual operation):

This has been a pretty long standing structure for the game, with final design decisions for it made about 3-4 (now 5-6 years ago) years ago after many discussions and debates. It has remained pretty consistent since then. Here is some more information on how and why reputations work the way they do in SP and MP taken from other threads/discussions:

...some games do thread out reputations for individual players in a multiplayer environment, and that's where there have been problems (especially if you have experience playing those games and what such 'individual' reputation structures did for gameplay). Here are some excerpts from past discussions on the topic:

And if you've played a few other games with a different approach for any length of time, you've probably encountered the scenarios where one player has a bad rep in the same system one of their coop buddies has a good rep, it then hinders their ability to find jobs where they want when they want and to complete those objectives because they fail to share a reputation... even if they are of the same 'clan'... even if they are 'linked' together in a group... even if they are flying together in formation both as human players...

So rather than having a spaghetti reputation system, where even friends can have different enemies and allies in the same system (even though they themselves might be linked by group or common coop interest) resulting in interference for working together or even just trying to travel together, human reputations follow human activities based on location. The 'human' group is basically treated as their own faction in MP, being part of how the game's 'fleet' and 'faction' system changes between the two modes. This is also reflected in how hiring a fleet in SP involves computer controlled AI ships while doing so in MP involves recruiting (and optionally linking) human players.

So on the reputation side of things, if you're flying with a buddy, you can expect to have the same enemies and allies come along. The main reason for the separate reputation structure between SP and MP in Evochron is to allow players to perform activities in MP that do not impact their earned individual SP reputations while still allowing them to keep everything else they've earned to use in both SP and MP.

...

Multiplayer reputations are synchronized for human players as part of the fleet system and to accommodate the conditions for multiplayer itself. Reputations are 'locked' in to protect your earned reputations for various actions while you're in multiplayer (primarily so that taking actions you may need to in multiplayer do not adversely effect the reputations you have earned in single player).

The primary reason for this are the player requests for a 'no-penalty' environment in multiplayer. That is, players want to be able to take actions in multiplayer (coop or otherwise) that they normally would not take in single player and not have their reputation penalized for it. As an example, they may have to attack ships that they were normally allied with in single player due to circumstances in multiplayer caused by helping out other human players. They want the option to do that without harming the reputation they worked so hard to achieve in single player. This lets the player do whatever actions they want in multiplayer without worrying about hurting their (hard) earned single player reputations.

...

Here are the considerations that would need to be addressed if a game had persistent reputation threads for players in multiplayer:

- How would most players want their reputations to be linked? That is, with each other as a global human entity factor, or individually where each player can have different reputation threads for every system (if the latter, then the issue above, which has been struck down previously, would apply).

- Should players lose or keep their earned SP reputations when they transition over to MP? If kept, they would be mismatched with other players, causing coop limitations/difficulties.

- How should their actions against a faction they are allied with effect them when they transition back to single player if the reputations threads are to be consistent between the modes? If inconsistent, how/why should their actions effect the reputation threads of other human players who may not even be online at the time or have opposing interests toward those reputation threads (negative or positive)?

- If the reputation threads are to be global for human players to retain consistency, then they must be stored server-side. This can negatively effect other players joining who want/expect to be allied with certain groups (and were when they last left off) that are now hostile toward them. If the reputation threads are individualized, then they would likely need to be stored locally with each player, causing player-to-player inconsistencies rather than a global human entity reputation thread group. How would you want these issues to be addressed in either direction?

Currently for multiplayer, you can simply select what level of friendly or hostile contacts to have by choosing where to play in the game's universe. While generally static with some localized variation based on immediate actions, the structure has been set up to be location based to give players the choice of where they want to perform collective or opposing actions, PvE or PvP. One possible new direction for such a system (using a similar design) might be to limit the scope of the available groups in the game to just two or three, thus limiting the scope of the potential variation to a more predictable and manageable level. For example, if only Federation and Alliance systems were used instead of numerous independent systems, the player could easily manage and keep track of the threat levels they encounter by aligning with one of the two available factions before they join. The game would then treat them as allied with those forces uniquely dependent on the choice they selected. Then if there are any transitions for certain systems based on player actions (such as territory lost or gained by one side or the other), players would know what to expect and where they stand based on which faction they chose to align themselves with. Perhaps this would make things more manageable for some, offering some variation, but still without penalty to their SP reputations and open for reasonable coop and PvP activities. I don't know though, just some thoughts I've been pondering about this very thing. It's been one of the most challenging aspects to work on in terms of development for the Evochron series.

[Kelan]

Very nice summary, Vice. Thank you for taking the time to do that.

I have been doing missions like crazy on my new MP server while waiting for other friends to join in and was wondering my my reputation was never changing. I guess there is a good reason!

I just picked the game up 2 weeks ago for the first time and trying to peel back the layers to start to understand the game. I am starting to get used to it a bit and finally have 12 kills to my credit. Looking forward to digging in further and seeing what else there is to discover. Impressive game for what I have seen so far.

[49rTbird]

Hello Kelan, welcome to the forum and the Sim. This game should provide years of pleasure for you and your friends.

[DaveK]

I have been doing missions like crazy on my new MP server while waiting for other friends to join in and was wondering my my reputation was never changing. I guess there is a good reason!

If you and your mates join or create a clan, then contracts you do in the system will let you get control of that system.

There's a detailed explanation of the clan system in the Hints&Tips Guide but beware - it also contains lots of spoilers - read with caution!

[Maarschalk]

Hi Opiumskittles and Kelan, welcome to the game and forum!......Hope to see you out there some time!.....

[Kelan]

Thanks for the tips and the warm welcome.

I have been browsing around a bit and found Seejay's website and your guides there, DaveK. I skimmed through the Technical Manual a bit on Saturday and looks like there are some very interesting details in there to check out sometime. Yesterday I found the Hints & Tips Guide already and it looks like it will be a huge help. I am trying to avoid looking at the biggest spoilers, but I am skimming enough to point me in the right direction.

Last night I went back to single player for a bit to experiment with a few things. I decided to take the advice in the guide and head to Talison WZ to see how it worked and how tough it was. I also wanted to try out a military hull. I made it out there and found the carrier where you can dock and get missions and build the beginning military hull. However, I still only have a Saber frame and not much cash so I am only about 1/3 of the way to the lowest cost military frame. I tried a 5 enemy fighter mission while I was there and did fairly well early on. I was able to chase off the first 3 enemy pilots after knocking their shields down and getting them about 50% into their hull, but I wasn't able to finish off any of them and it seemed my allies were starting to go down. Then I got swarmed and they wiped me out, heheh.

I will probably look into the public servers eventually as the friends I was referring to above were just in general forum mates and I didn't really get any takers on my MP server. We don't have a clan or anything yet although I am trying to drum up interest in my gaming guild and other forums.

One other thing that I did pick up from the guide was that I should be considering hiring and using wing mates on the combat missions. I have been trying all of them solo and was able to do a couple 3 enemy pilot ones, but I didn't try any wing mates yet. I guess I should fly back to Lambda or Olympus and grab a wing mate or two and work on some more combat skills and build a bit of cash and faction.

[SeeJay]

Hi Kelan.

To build yourr Military rank you need to do contracts in a WarZone. Any contract will do as long as it's there!;)

In MP with some help, you'll gain experience and cash in no-time!

[Rubber Chicken]

I have a question about the reputation system.

Does Single Player reputation affect your profiles individually or do the actions in one profile affect all profiles?

BTW... I'm currently fine with the reputation system as it stands. Depending on whom I visit and what systems they frequent/have built reputation in the most sometimes builds my standing with that system as well. I'm speaking from the view of someone who rarely uses Single Player.