New to EM, here`s a round of dumb questions on me

EPICTHEFAIL · Post by **EPICTHEFAIL** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:14 pm

Hello everyone!

I`ve just started playing Mercenaries (and by "just" I mean 2 days ago) and am enjoying it immensely. I`d played the old Starwraith games, but this is the first time (not counting Riftspace) that I`ve gotten into the freeform side of things. With that in mind, I have a few questions:

Is there any particular point to fleets? I`ve tried hiring a few passers-by to help me run combat contracts in Olympus (pathetic, I know), but while they are extremely useful they also proved an immense drain on my wallet. The few guides I`ve looked at all mention that various services become exorbitantly expensive as you rank up, so I get the feeling that by the time I have a steady cash stream to afford them it will be cheaper to just kit out an uber-ship and shoot them myself.

Secondly, do the engines or the wings have more of an effect on IDS course-correction? Should I bother with high-level wings, or is it better to stick with the basic ones and stick huge engines and lvl 10 shields on everything?

Thirdly (is that a word? It is now!), while I have figured out what the various sliders in the weapon lab do, I can`t for the life of me figure out the weapon types. How is a rail gun different from a projectile gun (I know what those are IRL, mind you), or a plasma gun from a fusion or particle one? Likewise the missiles.

And at last, where do I get the BattleMe- er, Terrain Walker? The website mentioned it multiple times, but I have yet to see one. Maybe in higher-tech systems?

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:29 pm

Hi and welcome.

There are nu dumb questions, we have all been where you are now.

On my site, Guide section, you have some good stuff to read.
http://evochron2.junholt.se/

Check the ones created by DaveK. They will answer most questions you'll ever have LOL!

Since we now have IDS multiplier, the Engine isn't that important. Shields are!
Here you have some info regarding wings etc:
http://evochron.junholt.se/objectdescri ... object.htm

Weapon differences I'll leave to those with more knowledge about the Tech stuff.
All I need to know is if I can kill something with it .... Then it's a good weapon!:P

See ya out there.

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:38 am

Hello EpicTheFail and welcome to the game/sim and the Evo-community at large!

I'll make a stab at fielding some of your questions.

On fleets - use them when and if you really need them. Vice has given the fleet characteristic a few tweaks in the mining category, and this has made this particular function a bit more affordable and useful. Would recommend doing so in the 'safer' areas like Sapphire, Atlas, or Wolf. And as you've found, the more rank/status you earn, the more you'll pay out. The other side of this coin is also true, the more you rank-up, the more you'll be paid per contract/mission. It eventually adds up and sorta evens out.

On wings - The various wing sets add to/complement the agility factor of a ships' frame. The sole exception to this applies to the mil frames, which are already standardized for the particular wing-set/frame model, and are not scalable. Experiment with the various wing-set, civ frame, engine, and shield core combinations. There's no really 'correct' answer, because it pretty much all depends on what you've crafted you ship to accomplish. If 'combat mode' is a viable option you're considering, suggest only 1 cargo bay on the frame, then go from there with the engine, wing-set, shield core, and fuel pod selections. If you're having a challenge with course corrections in IDS mode, suggest reducing speed to about 2X IDS, regardless of engine type, and lining up on your new course heading once the nose comes around to your 'true' heading.

On weapons in general - whether laser or particle cannon, each 'class' is fairly well defined by their effect on the target. The laser cannons may be considered anti-shield effective, while the particle cannons are considered anti-armor effective. Both laser and particle cannons draw their 'ammunition' from the energy/fuel supply of the indigent ships frame set-up, and are auto-magically crafted accordingly . The differences of each relate primarily to the range, yield (package size), and the cyclic rate-of-fire. (Or the cyclic recharge rate, if you please.) All weapons classes have an effect on the draws upon your ships' energy reserves, fuel, and power supply. This 'effect' can be managed/adjusted by tinkering with the power supply bias between your shields and weapons ( keyboard "[" and "]" keys ). Don't forget that your other ships' equipment draw their energy from the same power supply as your shields and weapons. It's finding the balance that takes a bit of effort and experimentation on your part.

On Terrain Walkers - a very useful tool, in general and in specific applications. They usually can be located/purchased in the higher tech/economy systems. (*cough*try pearl*cough*) And yes, you can also use them in "BattleMech" mode, against other TW's and ships! They're pretty awesome in their own right, in this regard. There's a few veteran pilots of renown, that practice/have practised PvP bouts in TW's. I've been known to try knocking them (the TW's) out using my tweaked Legacy frame and a tailgunner. It's all good fun!

*Disclaimer*: The above is given based on my own knowledge and experience. Your results may vary, and I could be out in left field on some of this. But, by and large, it's pretty much the right stuff. Hope it helps some..

Post by **Marvin** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:28 am

Higher class wings usually increase your turning rate. IIRC Dave's Guide should have a graph comparing wing class vs ship frame.

EPICTHEFAIL · Post by **EPICTHEFAIL** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:01 pm

Thanks for the answers guys! Just to clarify on the wing question then, the wings control how fast I spin about on the spot (for whatever reason), while the engine controls how fast I can strafe and start moving in the direction I want, correct? As for the weapons, maybe I should`ve phrased it better: I have (mostly) figured out what beams and particle guns do, but I am baffled by some of the subtypes of particle gun (such as plasma vs fusion: is it just a max damage thing, or are there extra passive effects or whatever) and missile (shaped charges and fragmentation and whatever else). And the TWs... guess I`ll have to hold off on one of those then, I`m not exactly having fun in Pearl

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:38 pm

Pretty much a yes on the wing versus engine statement. On the differing particle cannons, again it's the damage effect-by-type-class, fusion-class cannons having the highest blast/damage effect due to projectile type. The shaped charge missiles are akin to a classic armor piercing/anti-tank/anti-armor munition. Case-in-point: 106mm Anti-Tank, Recoilless Rifle round/missile, M-Something or Other. The weapons package itself looks like a large coffee tin, with an inverted, cone-shaped container. Behind, and underneath the inverted cone lies the explosive charge itself. The essential function-by-design is to blast a hole in armor by the means of a hyper-velocity cone of explosive energy, which is rapidly followed by the remains of the metallic cone itself, (usually copper/beryllium) punching its way into and thru the armor sheathing. There is also an associated spalling effect, by the agency of one metallic object forcing it's way thru another metallic object. Fragment/spatter effect from the opposing wall of armor on the target object. Fragmentation missiles are like tossing a hand grenade into a crowd of bad guys. A lot of those most injured will be in the immediate blast/frag radius, once the explosive package initiates. An example of this is the M79/M203 grenade launcher of the US Army. The Bloop Gun. The HE frag munition on this pup has a 25 meter blast/frag radius. Anyone inside of this limit is gonna get damaged - rather severely. Again, the missile types are grouped by their effect on the intended target. (Went to EOD school all day, once.) As for the TW's and Pearl - try buying a station license - you pick the station - if you've got the ducats in the burse to do so.

[Edited on 12-25-2013 by Busch]

[Edited on 12-25-2013 by Busch]

[Edited on 12-25-2013 by Busch]

Post by **Marvin** » Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:23 am

Kinetic weapons are probably the most noticeable, in terms of how they affect your ship. If you find an enemy ship knocking you around, it's the kinetics.

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:43 am

Yep, those two are pretty effective in their various employments.

's good to take these guys out soonest!

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:14 am

Hi EPICTHEFAIL, welcome to the game and forum!........

As stated earlier there are no such things as dumb questions relatively speaking that is!
But there are dumb answers by those who do not understand the questions.

That is how most jokes are made, an intelligent question followed by a dumb answer!.....

:P

EPICTHEFAIL · Post by **EPICTHEFAIL** » Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:34 am

@Busch So is it an AoE vs Single-target damage thing then, or is it, like with the cannons, just a max damage/range/whatever?

While I`m on the topic of missiles (and to waste everyone`s time some more) are Excaliburs still the best missiles in the game by far, like in the old games, or have they been nerfed in the half-decade or so that I wasn`t looking?

Post by **Marvin** » Wed Dec 25, 2013 4:03 pm

Not nerfed. Recycle time has been increased to three minutes. Making them part of your combat package ... but only a part.

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:32 pm

It's the missile type-class/damage effect. A couple of other effect-specific missiles are : The Leech missile is designed to be an EMP disruptor. The Lynx missile is used to target engines. The Rage missile targets weapons systems. While the Cyclone missile has a kinetic effect on the target, akin to that of the Eclipse and Banshee particle cannons. All of the stock missile and cannon offerings are fairly well balanced across the board. In the Weapons Lab is where the tweaking of each class may be accomplished, except for the Excaliburs. Depending on what I'm doing in-game, I usually switch off between the stock Exodus and the Excals. It pretty much depends on your flying/fighting 'style', which of the various weapons combinations to utilize. And, it depends on what you find that works best for you, balanced against your ship/frame crafting and your intended game play role.

PaulB · Post by **PaulB** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:12 am

From post: 166155, Topic: tid=11133, author=SeeJay wrote:Hi and welcome.

There are nu dumb questions, we have all been where you are now.

On my site, Guide section, you have some good stuff to read.
http://evochron2.junholt.se/

Check the ones created by DaveK. They will answer most questions you'll ever have LOL!

Since we now have IDS multiplier, the Engine isn't that important. Shields are!
Here you have some info regarding wings etc:
http://evochron.junholt.se/objectdescri ... object.htm

Weapon differences I'll leave to those with more knowledge about the Tech stuff.
All I need to know is if I can kill something with it .... Then it's a good weapon!:P

See ya out there.

I question the Yields on the weapons on that page on your website - unless I'm missing something.

When you "mouse over" the Maxim-R in the Inv Console the Description says the Y,R,C are displayed at the top of the Console - and I wrote them down to compare to the Fusion Particle cannon I Lab'ed.
MaximR = Y=50,R=780,C=22
MyFusP = Y=76,R=760,C=21

Explain please how Marvin got:
Maxim-R C8 Y=120 C=100 R=700

Because tesing the Maxim-R and my FusionP to destroy Asteroids My Fusion destroyed them faster and maybe with a bit more energy to spare and i can't rell a big difference in Cycle rate. Note: I'm not really wan't to complre the Maxim-R to my Fusion except from the stand point that the "mouse over" in Inv Console shows what the Description implies for both weapons and for my Fusion in the display and in Weapon Lab. So I'm inclined to them the "mouse over" data correct and that on the web page incorrect.
I just don't see the Maxim-R Yielding 120 unless maybe you are counting it as 2 guns using Cannon Relay System???
Then it's close but would seem to be 100 for Maxim-R and 152 for my FusionP.
Again note - the "mouse over" values for my Fusion match the values that came out of the design settings I used in Weapon Lab.
Unfortunately I don't know what the Weapon ab settings would be to dupilate a Maxim-R so I can only compare by the "mouse over" method and destroying asteroids.

Paul

Post by **Marvin** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:15 am

Values have changed. IIRC, the statistics you quote are pre-expansion ... either that or they are early expansion ... prior to tweaking by Vice.

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:12 am

Marvin is correct. That is why it's still on the "old" website and not included in the "new" one.
Haven't had time to look everything over and adjusting for all new stuff included/changed in the game.

-splosives- · Post by **-splosives-** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:36 am

From post: 166190, Topic: tid=11133, author=EPICTHEFAIL wrote:Thanks for the answers guys! Just to clarify on the wing question then, the wings control how fast I spin about on the spot (for whatever reason), while the engine controls how fast I can strafe and start moving in the direction I want, correct?

Not exactly.
Better engines improve your IDS max speed and your frontal and reverse acceleration in IDS, afterburner and forward/reverse inertial.
Better wings will improve your rotation rate and your lateral acceleration (left right up down)

On low speed values (>1000) the acceleration increase from better engines or wings will be almost unnoticed. However, as your speed increases, your acceleration decreases. The better your engine (or wings), the lower the decrease in acceleration will be.

Also, IDS gives you a slightly higher acceleration compared to inertial forward.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:29 pm

Actually, the forward/reverse inertial thrusters and the strafing thrusters are both in the wing system. The wing system also improves the base turn-on-axis value of the frame they are mounted to. IDS mode also seems to have it's own set of stabilizer u/d/l/r thrusters, as you can manually give extra 'boost' with the wing mounted thrusters by using your strafing controls. Turn reasonably tight with IDS mode on and moving at a comfortable speed, then push the strafe in the direction of the turn. You'll see what I mean.

Engine only affects IDS forward/reverse acceleration, afterburner, and power core generation. Whether it improves acceleration over the forward/reverse inertial thrusters is debatable.

-splosives- · Post by **-splosives-** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:42 pm

From post: 167970, Topic: tid=11133, author=Rubber Chicken wrote:Actually, the forward/reverse inertial thrusters and the strafing thrusters are both in the wing system.

Engine only affects IDS forward/reverse acceleration, afterburner, and power core generation. Whether it improves acceleration over the forward/reverse inertial thrusters is debatable.

I have experimental data that clearly proves that frontal and reverse acceleration in inertial mode is directly dependent on engine class.
If you would like to see the data, you can download it on our teamspeak in the freedom fighters file browser. It's an excell file called "SplosivesCorp various variables".

I didn't test the wing systems, but it should work with strafe thrusters. I know this because it used to be not the case, and Hawkeye told Vice during the beta, to which he responded something along the lines of "is that so? that's not supposed to be, I'll fix it".
It is possible, however, that wing systems improve both frontal and lateral acceleration.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:08 pm

Um.. yeah.. I think I'll decline going to the FF teamspeak.

Anyway maybe Vice can clear this up. I still think that all inertial systems are in the wing, and the u/d/l/r wing thrusters are independent of the IDS stabilizing thrusters.

Post by **Marvin** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:34 pm

Thruster behavior has changed with the new IDS mod. My upward thruster no longer gives me the push I need when adjusting the upward vector.

PaulB · Post by **PaulB** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:35 am

From post: 167982, Topic: tid=11133, author=Marvin wrote: Thruster behavior has changed with the new IDS mod. My upward thruster no longer gives me the push I need when adjusting the upward vector.

I found out running to Pearl and back (I think maybe the Sentinel was better) that the strafe thrusters are fairly useless at most any speed over 1500 or over 2000 for sure.

Maybe if I had room for a #10 wing but a #6 was about the best I could do (after I got the mammoth)......
On the Sentinel I only had room for a #2 wing.

Has anyone compared the Starmaster to the Mammoth or Legacy or Guardian?
The 40 Agility and the speed really worried. I wish you could do a "test drive" - LOL

Paul

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:23 am

As of now, thrusters have not changed ... my mistake. Ask Denny about the difference between the Starmaster and Mammoth. He prefers the Starmaster ... I prefer the Mammoth. With the proper wing, I get a better turn rate ... which is more important to me than the thicker hide of the Starmaster.

PaulB · Post by **PaulB** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:29 am

From post: 168002, Topic: tid=11133, author=Marvin wrote:As of now, thrusters have not changed ... my mistake. Ask Denny about the difference between the Starmaster and Mammoth. He prefers the Starmaster ... I prefer the Mammoth. With the proper wing, I get a better turn rate ... which is more important to me than the thicker hide of the Starmaster.

Which Wing and which Engine and what did you sacrifice (crew, CM, Cargo, or Harpoints) to get a wing>7 (unless you chose a really small engine and Fuel tank???
I assume you have 10 shields.

I refuse to give up 5 cargo bays, and from post I've read it seem most people think CM's important - I've already lower CM to 2 and Crew to 3 and my Hardpoint for missiles is 8, so that I have 8 Equipments slots available.

While I'm at it - I'm sure my assumption is correct that you can only save 5 items max in the Hangar and if you need more you must pay the hangar fee at another station (or half price with a license??

Paul

-splosives- · Post by **-splosives-** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:36 pm

From post: 168001, Topic: tid=11133, author=PaulB wrote: I found out running to Pearl and back (I think maybe the Sentinel was better) that the strafe thrusters are fairly useless at most any speed over 1500 or over 2000 for sure.

Are you using strafe thrusters in inertial mode only? they don't really work in IDS mode.

I use strafe thrusters at high speed all the time, they're great.

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:46 pm

Yes Paul, your assumption about the hangar 5-item limit is correct. Five item types and a ship/frame can be stored at one station location. Beyond those limits, one must use another, hopefully nearby station, and pay the gelt as well. Storage fees are not affected by station licensing. They're the same everywhere, for everyone.