After all this time, has ANYBODY found out how to actually use fleet mining?!

[Riokushinaku]

I stopped playing EM for quite some time. However, I came back recently, hoping that all the updates would have made the game better. It does seem to be slightly better, mainly better looks though. However, I've found out that fleet mining is still impossible to use, the game won't tell you how, the devs wont tell you how, and NO ONE has a definitive answer. I've been searching for hours and all I find is "I don't know.", "Maybe this will work", "I think I heard this is how (insert how they THINK your supposed to do it.", etc. Does fleet mining 'still' not work, after all this time? All I can do is tell my fleet to mine, they mine, then I can't do anything passed that point. There is no way to tell them to sell anything, and I can't checked their inventories to do it for them. In any other game, people would be irate about a non functioning feature. However, the fleet mining has always been a problem that people just quietly accept. Please, if anyone actually knows how to use your fleet to mine AND sell what they mine, tell me.

[Vice]

At the moment, it's been set up as a simplified system that gives the player a small profit share from the mined material as it is being recovered by the fleet ships (the mining ships themselves keep most of it). So functionally, they pay you your required share out of their credit reserves first as they recover the material and they can cash in the material themselves later on. So all you need to do is order the ships to be in formation with you, travel to an asteroid field, then order them to mine. Credits will be applied gradually as they finish mining cycles.

I can't really recall why it was originally set up like this all those years ago, but it was likely polled or proposed to players and then designed based on that feedback. It's certainly possible to change how it works though, if enough players want to see it operate some other way (such as requiring a reload/refuel command to direct them back to a station before applying credits and/or higher credit rewards). Feedback from others is welcome in this thread.

[Marvin]

The main problem with "auto-mining" is that you can make a lot more money, in a much shorter time, doing it yourself.

[Marvin]

What would be nice, though, would be the ability to hire an AI fleet to do "simulated contracts" ... in order to maintain 100% territory.

[Busch]

Vice, the manner in which you've more clearly stated the fleet mining procedure, is the very first time that I've seen it so stated, anywhere. Dave's stuff included, IIRC. Sure, the instructions allude to this 'order' feature, as well as that of the mining probe's employment, and somewhat utility. The 'order' feature does work as you've described. But, I've had to figure this one out on my own too. And because of my unwillingness to become more of a game/forum social pariah, have kept what most may consider 'spoiler' info, as extremely close-hold. 'I could tell ya, but I'd haff ta kill ya".

Maybe a more seamless, less steps-involved process ? Maybe a more published, available, and detailed set of instructions on 'How To'. (FM's/TM's anyone?) The learning curve here is steep enough, right off the bat. I also understand that 'less overhead is better' for the 'density' of the game package. Hence, the 'light weight' of the game's included instructions. And, I do know of that companionable info which is available in some of the training flicks, on the Merc's web-site.

As with the inventory and navigation screens, how about a mining/fleet command screen ? (Shades of AA?) Instead of a b2compass header/drop-down. (Maybe reserve this for 'combat' commands solely?) If that's feasible, within the framework of all else you've on the ledger boards, dream sheets, and wish lists.

[Marvin]

Busch gave me an idea ... assuming it isn't already part of the "fleet mining" subroutine: have each addition of credit displayed in Chat, same as when you get a territory payout.

[Busch]

Isn't that one of the reasons the Romans lost it, Marv? Allowing 'territorial control' thru 'proxies' ?

[Marvin]

Yup. The Goths sacked Rome. Because the Romans refused to follow through on their promises.

[Busch]

[Riokushinaku]

Thank you very much. I really really want to have a fleet/company playstyle. I love to have "employees" working in my business / protecting it. I'm really hoping that I can make a profit from using them for mining. If they can't cover their pay, and still make me profit, then fleet mining is broken . I want a playstyle that allows me to have lots of people with me, or at least in my faction. However, if there is no way to have them, without hurting me financially, then it really hampers my playstyle. I'll give it a try, but if it turns out to be a non-profitable endevor I guess I'll just have to get used to being a lone wolf forever in this game .

[Riokushinaku]

Also, I'm sorry for sounding so crappy in my first post. I just reread it. I'm quitting smoking, and the withdrawal makes me really irritable. Coming back to this game was amazing, but then I was quickly shot down by the fact that the game was still forcing me to be a lone wolf, even though it says you don't have to be.

[Edited on 9-9-2013 by Riokushinaku]

[Austin]

Fleet Mining does sound like it could be an interesting venture, but as Marvin stated, auto mining is much more profitable. It wouldn't be bad to see more perks to make players want to try fleet mining. But still, mining materials myself gives me a good chance to listen to some tunes and make a cozy little profit. 160 billion and going up

[Vice]

I'm really hoping that I can make a profit from using them for mining. If they can't cover their pay, and still make me profit, then fleet mining is broken.

Might be good to give it some thought, test it out for a while with a variety of fleet sizes, then decide if/how you want to see fleet mining be more profitable. I am in the process of working on the final stages of the next official update and I can tweak the payout amount of fleet mining pretty easily without risking breaking something. So if you check it out and decide on a figure that would make the option more appealing to you, reply here or send me a quick e-mail with the amount per mining cycle per fleet ship you would like to see applied to it. Right now, I think the amount is in the 100-500 credit range per mining cycle, which is likely too low for what you're interested in.

[Marvin]

I'm quitting smoking, and the withdrawal makes me really irritable.

... But, seriously ... Since a hired crew is on salary, whatever they dig up should go to the boss. And that amount should be reflected in prices listed in News.

[Nigel_Strange]

Actually, the whole fleet issue might be altered slightly.

Suppose your fleet gets paid on commission, rather than sucking at your bank account at regular intervals.

Now, suppose that your fleet size depends on your overall reputation. Civilian rank applies to civilian ships. Military rank applies to military ships.

Now, suppose that you ask ships to join you. You do not pay them directly, but they get a cut in all of the payments you receive from doing missions, etc.

So, with this in mind, when you order your wingmen to do mining, you provide security, and you get a cut of the profits. HOwever, since you are not paying them a cyclic wage, what you get from them is gravy.

[Marvin]

Now, suppose that your fleet size depends on your overall reputation. Civilian rank applies to civilian ships. Military rank applies to military ships.

Soooo ... if you're an admiral in the military, does that mean you can hire a battleship?

[-splosives-]

Fleet mining? what's that?

Seriously, I never knew that was a thing.

[Nigel_Strange]

Marvin: I like how you think.

In the military, though, it's command, not hire. Same with civilian fleets. You can attract a fleet of followers if you demonstrate enough rank to be a good leader. The ships that follow you into battle have incentive to be on the winning team.

There might be a contingency, though, if you are just puttering around, wasting time. Perhaps each ship will have its own bank account. As your fleet makes money, you can maintain the fleet easily, but if your fleet is losing money, perhaps there is a cutoff point at which your ships will begin deserting.

For example, if a ship joins your fleet with 2K credits, and you adventure for a while, and he gets up to 4K, that's great. However, if he dips below 1K, he might decide to try his fortune elsewhere. Each ship must pay for its own weapons, fuel, repairs, etc. So, a crushing defeat might leave some deserters looking for greener pastures.

When facing down reds, I notice that pretty much any conglomeration of reds will form up into phalanxes to maximize their tactical advantage. A lone fighter has a touch chance against them, but a fleet, if well-managed, might work. The problem is keeping the fleet maintained.

Anyway, it's just a suggestion. PRobably should be on a separate thread.

[Marvin]

In the military, though, it's command, not hire.

In other words, as an admiral, it won't cost me a cent to command (order?) a battleship to defend me in combat? (Cool.)

[Nigel_Strange]

Given the efficacy of battleships against small fighters, it's not that cool.

[Marvin]

Ah, but it is cool ... if you're doing one of SeeJay's combat contracts in the Sierra War Zone.

[DaveK]

Fleet mining? what's that?

Seriously, I never knew that was a thing.

ditto - Evochron's best kept secret!

[Riokushinaku]

I'm really hoping that I can make a profit from using them for mining. If they can't cover their pay, and still make me profit, then fleet mining is broken.

Might be good to give it some thought, test it out for a while with a variety of fleet sizes, then decide if/how you want to see fleet mining be more profitable. I am in the process of working on the final stages of the next official update and I can tweak the payout amount of fleet mining pretty easily without risking breaking something. So if you check it out and decide on a figure that would make the option more appealing to you, reply here or send me a quick e-mail with the amount per mining cycle per fleet ship you would like to see applied to it. Right now, I think the amount is in the 100-500 credit range per mining cycle, which is likely too low for what you're interested in.

*Long winded mechanic idea, but stick with me.*

Even if a very small profit can be made early on, once the prices of fleet ships' pay goes up it is impossible to make a profit with them anyway. I have an idea: Instead of trying to find a way to mathematically balance every ship/rank to reflect an increase in payout that would give profit, just make a new ship. What I propose is to just make a new ship, that would belong to the miners faction of course. It would be clearly labeled as a mining vessel, and would have no weapons. They could even have a distinctive look, to tell them apart from all the rest. The ship would have only countermeasures, cargo space, a jump drive, and a mining beam. They could also replace every ship, as the only ship to mine asteroids, besides mercenaries of course. I never thought it made much sense when I came to an asteroid field and saw a bunch of navy fighter ships mining for ore. The only faction that has a logical reason to mine, are the miners. The new ships would be at a constant cost of around 60,000 to 80,000 credits ,per pay cycle, but would gain enough credits to give an approx. 10,000 to 20,000 credit profit after ever pay cycle. (A small variant on cost and profit would make the process and ships seem less "cookie cutter") This would make it to where you would need to keep hiring more miners, just like a real company, to increase profit. The profit to cost ratio would keep the company from growing too fast or too slow, and you could speed it up with your own profits anyway. You would also need to make sure they are always mining, to maximize profit, and would need to worry about their protection since they cannot defend themselves from pirates. I think this would be a much more rewarding mechanic than auto mining. I've never done auto mining, but I kind of don't want to because just how profitable it is with little capital, time, or risk involved. I want my profit to mean something, to show that I had to work for it. That way, I can jump to my mining operation and say "Look at that. A long time ago, that used to be just a bunch of rocks. Now look at it. My company of miners working non stop to keep the company going, and get paid." I would really enjoy a mining mechanic that functioned in this way. I've never been a fan of a mechanic that made super high profits possible with little risk, time, or effort involved. These "auto reward systems" always make me feel unfulfilled, and bored with all of my easy wealth. Now, a new fleet command function will probably need to be implemented that will allow you to command a large amount of ships seperately from others. Such as, a grouping mechanic, like in lots of RTS games. They could also be easily sorted by "mining vessels" and "others/combat". Since there are really only two reasons for fleets, and that is combat or mining. This two class switch function would remove the tedious task of assigning every ship in your fleet to a certain group. The group function would make it easier to assign combat vessels to guard your miners, have multiple mining operations, and/or have your own fleet of guards follow you seperately. Let me know what you think. Also, I'm open to suggestions as well. Ideas are usually made better with more than one person's ideas.

Thanks for sticking with me on that long ride of text

[Edited on 9-12-2013 by Riokushinaku]

[Nigel_Strange]

I just use a platinum mining beam. Pure platinum, every time. Since plat is the most valuable stuff out there, platinum is number one: "everything else is number two or lower."

[Riokushinaku]

*Bump* What do you think of my idea, Vice?