What is the best joystick to play Evochron Mercenary?

ixtern · Post by **ixtern** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:47 pm

I am thinking about buying joystick to play Evochron Mercenary and many other space sims also. After intensive research I am inclined to buy Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog or Saitek Pro Flight X65F. I dont' see any other really good products. But I have some doubts about them. I have read that Warthog has some drawbacks regarding space sims - too strong spring, not very responsible buttons.. And X65F is force sensing with no movement. So if anybody here is using one or both of them with space sims, please advice. Additional question: is throttle useful in games like Evochron Mercenary? If not, maybe the better option would be Warthog Flight Stick, without throttle? (have not too much place on a desk) One comment: I don't want to buy a joystick with a pots.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:23 pm

I have been using a Saitek X52, Since Renegades came out!. A throttle is very usefull in Evochron Mercenary......

[Edited on 7-11-2013 by Maarschalk]

Capt_Caveman · Post by **Capt_Caveman** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:34 pm

CH products;

stick, throttle and peddals

Post by **Marvin** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:47 pm

If you don't have room for a stand-alone throttle, then get a joystick with a built-in throttle. Very important that you have one.

ixtern · Post by **ixtern** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:16 pm

"I have been using a Saitek X52, Since Renegades cam out!"
Have been considering X52Pro, but too many negative comments about it.

"CH products; stick, throttle and peddals"
CH produsts are based on pots (and hardly available in my country). Also some negative comments.

"If you don't have room for a stand-alone throttle, then get a joystick with a built-in throttle. Very important that you have one."
Didn't find any good (no-pot) joysticks with throttle. Do you know one?

Thx for all comments but still in the black hole on choice.

[Edited on 2013-7-10 by ixtern]

Flash · Post by **Flash** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:22 pm

I have owned the Saitek x52 and its predocessor (X42??), X52Pro, X65F and the CH Products stick, peddles and throttle. IMHO without a doubt the CH Products are the best for Evo. Even though based on pots it has not once gone off center. Also every part on it is replaceable. I also like the fact they make the real thing not just the toys we play with. Check out there website and see their industrial line. It's definitely for bigger hands as is the X65F. Some may find the programming a little difficult but there are plenty of sample files out there. I'm a software dev. so no problem here. You really can program it to do about anything. The sky is the limit. A lot of the guys use the Thrustmaster but not the Warthog. Access to a lot of its buttons requires you to let go of the stick or throttle. Buy off Amazon and return them until you get it right.

Post by **Marvin** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:23 pm

I have a Saitek Rumble Force (with feedback turned off ... planetside FF shakes the whole table) and a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. I've never examined the guts on either one so I can't say if either (or both) are no-pot. I can say that the Logitech is sturdier ... the trigger on my Saitek broke off long ago, forcing me to either glue it back or settle for half a trigger.

DynamicRanger · Post by **DynamicRanger** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:19 pm

+1 for CH Products stick and throttle. I use a USB Combatstick and Pro Throttle. The programming software is really powerful, but tricky to learn. Once mastered, it's incredible. I usually use the thumbstick on the throttle to control lateral thrusters, but I programmed a mode that switches it to mouse input and remaps a few of the buttons to mouse buttons, so I can control the entire game (including menus and navigation/inventory consoles) without taking my hands off the controls.

Capt_Caveman · Post by **Capt_Caveman** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:25 pm

potentiometers for CH products are generic and readily available to anyone with internet and a shipping address.

they use high quality pots, I have not had any centering or wiper noise issues at all.

ixtern · Post by **ixtern** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:43 pm

" IMHO without a doubt the CH Products are the best for Evo."
CH Fighterstick and Pro Throttle would costs me little less (70$) than full Warthog. Even if maybe more handy, CH is not from the same class as Warthog (sensors and materials used). I believe you have no problems with CH but there are more negative comments for it than for Thrustmaster product. Long time ago I had pot joysticks and never more. Programming is no problem for me.

"I have a Saitek Rumble Force"
Never used toy controllers and not planning

What about X65F?

" Logitech Extreme 3D Pro"
Poor quality pot joystick with a lot of bad comments, Although for a year or two sometimes may be OK.
If I would buy a cheap joy it would be perhaps russian Defender Cobra M5 (about 80$) with magnetoresistive sensors on 2 axis, but it has many bad comments on russian forums (z-axis bad quality pot, poor controller, plastic gimbal, breaking springs).

Warthog is an interesting option for me because it has heavy, solid metal construction, not-wearable sensors and there are mods for it (although force-sensing mod costs more than whole Warthog). So it may be for many years.

[Edited on 2013-7-10 by ixtern]

Flash · Post by **Flash** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:26 pm

You asked about the X65F. Here is my review on Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/review/R1B2R5MPI1 ... R5MPI123XN

If you are concerned about customer reviews then this is probably not the stick for you. The forced sensing is really cool for operating the elevator and ailerons however with this stick where twist is used for the rudder, deflecting the rudder is impossible to do without defecting either the elevator or ailerons and vice versa. Maybe the comments mentioned of my review about putting a choke on the USB cord would have taken care of the centering problem but I was a little ticked Saitek took 6 months to even address the problem and to my knowledge has still not been resolved except by a user fix. I bought mine after they came up with their fix. It didn't work. The x52 and x52 Pro were much better at it. The problem I found with those two were they didn't hold up well. I gave my x52 Pro to Chronic which he took apart and fixed but it was a matter of reinforcing an irreplacable cheap plastic part. He later abandoned it for the CH Products.

The bad reviews from the CH Products were mainly that it had no rudder. I have the rudder unit so it wasn't a problem for me.

The Warthog is truly a work of art for sure. After flying in Evochron for about a year and reading the Warthog manual I couldn't figure out a good way to map all I needed to the limited controls available which don't require you to leave the stick or throttle. I guess I could of designated a mode switch to remap my buttons on the fly but I always hated doing that. I still haven't found uses for all the buttons and tophats on the CH Products. I also really really like the mini analog stick. But as with anything I'm sure I could have gotten use to the Warthog if the CH Products weren't available

It kind of appears you have already made up your mind to go with the Warthog. I'm sure you would love it. I really wanted to make it work for me in a bad way. If I was just flying flight simulators and not space sims, I wouldn't have hesitated a moment. The technology is very impressive.

After wearing out 3 sticks I wanted to get one that would last forever. Surly the Warthog and CH Products fit the bill.

Post by **DaveK** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:19 pm

I started with an Saitek X45, then upgraded to a Saitek X52Pro

I'm not a combat freak, pushing my sticks to the limit and beyond and have found both to be excellent for my playing style. I've programmed every control option I need and still used only around half the possible button/switch/hat/knob options (they both have three modes, each which can have a different mapping for each button etc. I haven't used the programming software options either, just set them up from 'in game'.

Both have been reliable (touch wood) and have a quality feel. The only issue I've had with the X52 Pro is due to the way my desk is set up. The stick and throttle are on different level and if the plug into the stick moves a bit, my ship can slowly roll when centred - pushed the plug straight and it's cured, started being a bit more careful with the wire routing and it's stopped happening.

I guess it's 'horses for courses'. The best stick for Evochron is the stick that works best for you!

ixtern · Post by **ixtern** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:38 pm

Thanks, Flash, for your detailed comment about X65F. Probably I will choose a Warthog, even if not all controls will be conveniently remapped. I was curious if someone managed to use it in Evochron with satisfactory results. And I am thinking about Skyjacker and Star Citizen also. Most of Warthog praises goes from aviation sim players so it is not the same genre. In a few months there should be a new super-joy, Black Mamba (Warthog class and price), from russian (or belarussian) company - vkb-pro - but I don't know if it ever will be available in my country, so now it is rather a curiosity. But I would buy it, if I only could.

ixtern · Post by **ixtern** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:07 pm

Thanks for the comment, DaveK. Regarding X52Pro, feedbacks from customers generally are positive about hardware and negative about software and support. So maybe you have avoided problems by not using Saitek software. Because I have Windows 8 and many space sims to play, I am even more concerned about software issues. X52Pro construction is old and it seems that Saitek (or MadCatz) doesn't invest in it anymore. Additionally, pricing is not vere attractive in X52Pro case - 200$ here comparing to 135$ on Amazon US (Amazon US doesn't deliver it to my country, Amazon UK prices are from space rather). So it is not a good choice for me (although it looks fine and has small footprint comparing to Warthog).

[Edited on 2013-7-12 by ixtern]

[Edited on 2013-7-12 by ixtern]

Star King · Post by **Star King** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:19 pm

Logitech Wingman 3D Extreme Pro!!!! Very Affordable and super easy set-up (plug & Play).

Barberetti · Post by **Barberetti** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:50 pm

Stay away from the Logitech WingMan Cordless Freedom 2.4. Worst joystick in the history of joysticks. Whoever at Logitech thought that a stick that goes into standby mode after a minute of inactivity, then takes up to 3 seconds to "wake up" again after you move it should be sacked. Shame, because the handle, hat, and button positions for the thumb feel pretty comfortable.

The fact that it packed up on the day that the EM expansion dropped didn't do it any favours

Currently using a Thrustmaster T16000m. Movement feels really nice. No squeaking at all. The stick is quite fat though. Feels like you've got your hand round an elephants leg when you're using it.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:40 am

From post: 163396, Topic: tid=10905, author=Star King wrote:Logitech Wingman 3D Extreme Pro!!!! Very Affordable and super easy set-up (plug & Play).

YES! I agree 100% I've never had one problem with my 3D Pro since day one! Awesome, cheap flight stick! If I have any complaints about it, it would be that it needs moar buttons.

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:01 am

From post: 163410, Topic: tid=10905, author=Barberetti wrote:Whoever at Logitech thought that a stick that goes into standby mode after a minute of inactivity, then takes up to 3 seconds to "wake up" again after you move it should be sacked.

Sounds like the guy only tested it on FSX.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:54 am

From post: 163413, Topic: tid=10905, author=Marvin wrote:
From post: 163410, Topic: tid=10905, author=Barberetti wrote:Whoever at Logitech thought that a stick that goes into standby mode after a minute of inactivity, then takes up to 3 seconds to "wake up" again after you move it should be sacked.
Sounds like the guy only tested it on FSX.

LOL, must be part of the power saving mode options!

I'm sure there must be a way to disable the standby and wake up!......

:P:P:P:P:P:P

Barberetti · Post by **Barberetti** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:27 pm

From post: 163423, Topic: tid=10905, author=Maarschalk wrote:LOL, must be part of the power saving mode options!

I'm sure there must be a way to disable the standby and wake up!......:P:P:P:P:P:P

There wasn't. I even posted on Logitech's forums about it shortly after I got the stick.

Oh yeah, I actually forgot the worst bit! Imagine being parked up next to an asteroid and mining it, then your ship suddenly accelerates into it because the stick has fallen asleep. The reason is, when the stick goes into standby mode, it sets the throttle to maximum

Thankfully, activating EM's Inertia drive counteracted this problem, but the amount of times that caused me to die in games like X3 was ridiculous.

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:01 pm

From post: 163427, Topic: tid=10905, author=Barberetti wrote:when the stick goes into standby mode, it sets the throttle to maximum

Forget using it in FSX. I can't think of a single program where I'd want a joystick to fuction like that.

INKED MICHAEL · Post by **INKED MICHAEL** » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:45 pm

The BEST, IMHO, BY FAR is the INEXPENSIVE "THRUSTMASTER X FLIGHT HOTAS". More than Enough BUTTONS Placed VERY INTUITIVELY. TRIGGER, MISSILE FIRE and WEAPON SELECT can Be Done with ONE FINGER if Necessary.

My 2ND TM HOTAS "BROKE" When I Got GINGERALE on It. lol. All that was Required to Receive a REPLACEMENT UNDER WARRANTY was to Send THRUSTMASTER a PICTURE of the Damaged TM HOTAS with the POWER CORD CUT. lol. That's It and Another TM HOTAS was Shipped to Me THAT DAY.
While Waiting I Decided to Try the "SAITEK X52 PRO". Firstly, It Didn't FEEL like a TRUE PLANES HOTAS. Secondly, After I Completed a KILL CONTRACT I Would be Put into a UNCONTROLLER SPIN or LOOP. The Only way to End it was to EXIT THE GAME ENTIRELY and UNPLUG/PLUGIN the STICK AGAIN.

After about a Week of This I Took it Back and Got My BELOVED TM HOTAS. lol.

Had I Liked the X52 I Would have Kept it and SOLD My Replacement TM HOTAS.

PRICE: SAITEZ X52 PRO-$169.00CDN + TAXES, ONE YR WARRANTY. THUSTMASTER X FIGHT HOTAS-$43.00CDN+TAXES, TWO YEAR WARRANTY.

The TM HOTAS Just Feels "Right".

Barberetti · Post by **Barberetti** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:55 pm

From post: 163428, Topic: tid=10905, author=Marvin wrote: Forget using it in FSX. I can't think of a single program where I'd want a joystick to fuction like that.

Tell me about it. At one point I seriously considered trying to use my steering wheel and footpedals to fly my ship instead. It's that bad!

Jk-77 · Post by **Jk-77** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:13 am

I am currently using a Madcatz F.L.Y 5, love it! Works well for me... Very affardable too, priced at arround Â£39, cheaper if you look about...

Angitherias · Post by **Angitherias** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:25 am

INKED MICHAEL, is 12 buttons enough on the X flight hotas?