It actually felt like a war. (Opinion)

Mecingo · Post by **Mecingo** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:30 pm

I've been playing this game for a few years now off and on, I've seen clans rise and fall, clans come and go, I've left and came back on and off this game for months at a time, etc. But for the first time ever while playing this game I felt as if I was participating in a actual clan war when FF fought SG in Deneb with only combat not delivery wars (Pizza Wars

)

I don't remember who coined the term "The Pizza Wars" but that what it has felt like for the past few years I have been playing, the way people fight over territory seems like a race to deliver the pizza to a space ship over and over again, a race of pizza contracts (deliveries) that seems honestly kind of boring.

I don't think this will get much support but I honestly think we need to permanently change the way we fight clan wars, fight being the word. We for years barely didn't do much fighting at all in clan wars. Mostly it has been people attacking clans while their members are asleep, avoiding combat completely and just doing contracts (Pizza Delivery ones

).

A war should feel like a war, I highly doubt Napoleon won all of his battles by ordering his men to race against the opposing forces to deliver goods to someplace before the other side did, no they fought each other in brutal bloody combat like war should be.

I'm not saying we need to get a rid of anything like Fulcrums or Stealth but just over all change the way war is fought in game permanently, I can't be the only that feels this way?

[Edited on 4-17-2013 by Mecingo]

49rTbird · Post by **49rTbird** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:40 pm

Things would be different if we had the amount of MP participation that this Sim deserves. I visited 6 servers last night and did not see an pilots on. I am PST and I know that can make a difference.

Mecingo · Post by **Mecingo** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:00 pm

From post: 161267, Topic: tid=10771, author=thetiebers wrote:Things would be different if we had the amount of MP participation that this Sim deserves. I visited 6 servers last night and did not see an pilots on. I am PST and I know that can make a difference.

Even small scale ones would make a difference, maybe the game could automatically adjust percentage gained by killing a clan with an opposite tag based on how many clansmen are in the sector. Say 1 vs 1 would have 15 percent per kill, and 8 vs 8 would have 5 percent per kill, and so on.

Post by **Marvin** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:30 pm

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. Denial is also ignoring the fact that the reason it worked is because guys from a bunch of different clans finally decided to drop their clan names and fly under the SG banner. Grin and bear it. If you want the kind of combat displayed last Sunday, more clans will need to band together.

Mecingo · Post by **Mecingo** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:32 pm

From post: 161269, Topic: tid=10771, author=Marvin wrote:Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. Denial is also ignoring the fact that the reason it worked is because guys from a bunch of different clans finally decided to drop their clan names and fly under the SG banner. Grin and bear it. If you want the kind of combat displayed last Sunday, more clans will need to band together.

I believe small scale wars can work as well, you don't need a lot people to have a combative war, actually all you need is two.

49rTbird · Post by **49rTbird** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:40 pm

From post: 161271, Topic: tid=10771, author=Mecingo wrote:
From post: 161269, Topic: tid=10771, author=Marvin wrote:Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. Denial is also ignoring the fact that the reason it worked is because guys from a bunch of different clans finally decided to drop their clan names and fly under the SG banner. Grin and bear it. If you want the kind of combat displayed last Sunday, more clans will need to band together.
I believe small scale wars can work as well, you don't need a lot people to have a combative war, actually all you need is two.

Maybe someone can set up a PVP/ Clan war request Thread. Clan and none clan (by using a temporary clan tag) can give their times that they are available to participate in the activity and/or who they would like to match up against. That way it gives people in different time zones a way to contact others interested. As it is now with sporadic posts, our attention is not focused.

Dingo · Post by **Dingo** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:25 pm

From post: 161269, Topic: tid=10771, author=Marvin wrote:If you want the kind of combat displayed last Sunday, more clans will need to band together.

This.

Post by **DaveK** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:33 pm

From post: 161266, Topic: tid=10771, author=Mecingo wrote: A war should feel like a war, I highly doubt Napoleon won all of his battles by ordering his men to race against the opposing forces to deliver goods to someplace before the other side did, no they fought each other in brutal bloody combat like war should be.

[Edited on 4-17-2013 by Mecingo]

though Napoleon did say, famously, that " an army marches on its stomach"

Logistics - getting food, pizzas, clothes, and spare parts to the front - is often what makes or breaks a conflict.

Just a thought

Post by **DaveK** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:35 pm

From post: 161267, Topic: tid=10771, author=thetiebers wrote:Things would be different if we had the amount of MP participation that this Sim deserves. I visited 6 servers last night and did not see an pilots on. I am PST and I know that can make a difference.

t'other night Cindy managed to persuade 25+ players onto the same server - six [SG] took on around the same number of [FF], so there is hope yet

Post by **DaveK** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:37 pm

From post: 161269, Topic: tid=10771, author=Marvin wrote:Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. Denial is also ignoring the fact that the reason it worked is because guys from a bunch of different clans finally decided to drop their clan names and fly under the SG banner. Grin and bear it. If you want the kind of combat displayed last Sunday, more clans will need to band together.

I wonder if there is any mileage in having clan rewards proportional to the number of active clan members - might encourage fewer two person clans and get more to join together.

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:51 pm

If I can just remember what it was particularly, but isn't there a method in the server software for the server/sysops to set PvP/CvC percentages for "area conflicts". I'll have to do a little more investigating, but I think it's something along those lines at least.

I think "we" tried something along the lines of the PvP/CvC request thread, once upon a time. Mebe when the old USS server was still up and flyable. I think it died then due to lack of attention. Same with the LMS series. If it should work this time, someone or a group of someones, might wanna be the guideons...or at least direct traffic.

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:14 pm

I have said it before and will say it again.

The best solution (imho) is that there is an ongoing war (AI) at all times with changing fronts.

When a player logs on, he/she needs to chose what side to join (red/blue).
If he/she fights or not is all up to the player, but if he/she wants, he/she
can make a difference by fighting.

This way it doesn't matter if you're alone or with 20+ players online. It will feel like a war either way.

Just my 2 cents!;)

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:25 pm

That is why there are 4 Warzones, where the war with the Vonari is always going on and you do not have to keep maintenance in the warzones and can do combat by your self!....

:P

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:42 pm

It's not a war going on in the Wz's.

Same thing as in all other systems.
Same contracts and nothing happens.

It all looks the same every time you
log on.

My suggestion was to remove clan system
control and have 2 sides at all times.
War will go on with or without players
online and system control will change.

There is no war now and will never be
with the current setup of the game.
PvP battles every now and then yes.
War no. Not gonna happen.

Dingo · Post by **Dingo** » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:55 pm

I agree with SeeJay, for the first time ever.

Post by **DaveK** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:02 pm

From post: 161291, Topic: tid=10771, author=SeeJay wrote:It's not a war going on in the Wz's.

Same thing as in all other systems.
Same contracts and nothing happens.

It all looks the same every time you
log on.

My suggestion was to remove clan system
control and have 2 sides at all times.
War will go on with or without players
online and system control will change.

There is no war now and will never be
with the current setup of the game.
PvP battles every now and then yes.
War no. Not gonna happen.

From post: 161294, Topic: tid=10771, author=Dingo wrote:I agree with SeeJay, for the first time ever.

I agree with Dingo . . .

and I agree with SeeJay

Lots of servers is nice, but it does dilute players. Lots and lots and lots and . . . of clans dilutes us even more. Perhaps one or two servers just dedicated to a red vs blue war (perhaps we could call them Alliance and Federation!) - yep I know peace was declared decades ago, but . . . .

Dingo · Post by **Dingo** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:49 pm

From post: 161310, Topic: tid=10771, author=DaveK wrote:
From post: 161291, Topic: tid=10771, author=SeeJay wrote:It's not a war going on in the Wz's.

Same thing as in all other systems.
Same contracts and nothing happens.

It all looks the same every time you
log on.

My suggestion was to remove clan system
control and have 2 sides at all times.
War will go on with or without players
online and system control will change.

There is no war now and will never be
with the current setup of the game.
PvP battles every now and then yes.
War no. Not gonna happen.

From post: 161294, Topic: tid=10771, author=Dingo wrote:I agree with SeeJay, for the first time ever.
I agree with Dingo . . .

and I agree with SeeJay

Lots of servers is nice, but it does dilute players. Lots and lots and lots and . . . of clans dilutes us even more. Perhaps one or two servers just dedicated to a red vs blue war (perhaps we could call them Alliance and Federation!) - yep I know peace was declared decades ago, but . . . .

I would bring back USS to try something like this. But then, there's more servers again.

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:43 pm

DaveK has a really good "now, why didn't I think of it" type idea. To make it really hairy, you could even add a DiD requirement.

Letoras · Post by **Letoras** » Thu May 02, 2013 2:36 pm

From post: 161291, Topic: tid=10771, author=SeeJay wrote:It's not a war going on in the Wz's.

Same thing as in all other systems.
Same contracts and nothing happens.

It all looks the same every time you
log on.

My suggestion was to remove clan system
control and have 2 sides at all times.
War will go on with or without players
online and system control will change.

There is no war now and will never be
with the current setup of the game.
PvP battles every now and then yes.
War no. Not gonna happen.

Agree. A story driven scenario would be awesome. It will give "motion" to the universe. That demands one server for the updates, am i right?

p.s. one server for all players would make a huge impact.

Nubarus · Post by **Nubarus** » Fri May 03, 2013 3:37 pm

MP in this game never had any war going on that was interesting at all, it makes it even worse if you are used to huge battles with 400 players assisted with AI planes as filler to make it even more epic.

It even dwarfs to the 64 player battles from another MP battle game.

-splosives- · Post by **-splosives-** » Fri May 03, 2013 5:01 pm

Nubarus, I can't help but notice that you always try to make people depressed.
You always talk how things are bad, how they should change and how other games are so much better.

I don't even recall you being in the battle that day, so what are you talking about?

As far as I can remember, FF has been involved in ALL clan wars since we started (correct me if I'm wrong), so I guess we do know what we're talking about.
And I must say, that last battle was awesome.

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Fri May 03, 2013 5:04 pm

It was not and have never been a war.
It's PvP / CvC sessions. Nothing else.

A war continues all around you and
even when you're not there.

I'm not saying PvP isn't fun, just that
it's not a war.

-splosives- · Post by **-splosives-** » Fri May 03, 2013 5:11 pm

That's why I called it a battle, not a war.

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Fri May 03, 2013 5:22 pm

And that's why a say there will never
be wars with the setup this game has.

Only minor fights.

Nubarus · Post by **Nubarus** » Sat May 04, 2013 1:58 am

I just stated an opinion, like I said before. This game in it's current setup is uable to support any type of war or major battles. All it can handle right now is more like a skirmish, testing and poking the enemy to see what will happen next, what mistakes will be made you can exploit to win the battle and building up momentum to eventually win the war.

Sadly the game ends there before the big fight.

This is an excellent game for what it is designed for, you in a big sandbox, being the Han Solo if you will, don't care about clans or having to choose a side, just go where the money is and where the adventure is, do what you want, where you want, when you want.

Sadly this is also shot to pieces on the MP servers, at least the ones where clans are very active like ants taking care of what's their own. This throws dirt in the food of the Han Solo's out there because the clans activities make the sandbox smaller and smaller for the Han Solo's.

So basicly for me, who don't give's a rats behind about clans, system control or slaving away to keep what's some clan leader's propperty I am playing Han Solo in a solo environment, sadly this means having to play the game away from all the clan BS from my own personal sandbox on my nice SSD drive.

And if I want to throw myself into a war environment I will log on to the ATAG (Air Tactical Assault Group) server where a 24/7 ongoing war is being fought, monitored, base set rules enforced by the server team, mission based with real briefings and you get fed information from Fighter Command HQ during your missions.

Or I join the mayhem in GuildWars 2 with my Guild in World vs World vs World where 3 servers are fighting for control where the Guild I am in has more members then the entire EM MP community. Hundreds of players fighting on a single battlemap, also 24/7 with a server rotation based on battle statistics to keep it fresh.

This is the only way to manage a simulated warlike situation, you need a team behind it and a solide set of ground rules to keep it fun for everyone.
So far the EM community has tried to create this several times and from what I seen so far has failed every single time.

Personally I don't care about duels and constant small skirmishes, you see this as making you depressed, I see this as me stating my opinion.

When you are content with system maintenance, duels and skirmishes, all the power to you splosives, I will not loose any sleep over it either way.