Heat feature

god-demis · Post by **god-demis** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:29 pm

Hi all, I just wanted to see how everyone feels about the new heat feature in the EM expansion. Personally I don't really like it, I think it took away some of the combat action.
What I mean: Before the expansion, whenever someone fired a rocket at you, you could evade it by accelerating, shooting it or using a CM. With the new heat feature, it feels like the CM's are not worth it anymore. I will describe what I mean: When you get the missile warning, you must look at your heat indicator and press CM at the moment just before impact so that it is effective. The problem is that the heat indicator goes up a lot even when you are on inertial and you turn your ship around. So the solution is to stand absolutely still. And even then, the missile still hits you. I have tried a lot of ways to do it, even with green heat indicator, and even launching A LOT of CM's and the missile still hits me. So what I must do is shoot down one by one each missile which is frustrating because of the enemy missile spam. Can you describe your feelings about the heat feature and please explain also why you like/dislike it. I would really like to know.
Thank you for reading a long post.

God-Demis

ACBlack · Post by **ACBlack** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:44 pm

~S~

Even though my piloting skills are nothing, I have been trying to figure this one out myself. Just before the Missile hits, I hit the burner and pop CM's. I seem to be at this point 50/50 (this is for NCP's only) I know there are different types of missiles and not sure what they are shooting sooo God-demis sitting still has never been a thing for me, moving is just part of trying to lost the missiles lol going to try this one.

PlasmaJedi · Post by **PlasmaJedi** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:31 pm

the trick is to NOT move or rotate to get the missile to follow the CMs. Also, the missile usually has to be in danger-close range to be fooled in the first place.

Option 1, When you hear a missile lock on, be ready: When the missile approaches close enough that the indicator is red, stop thrusting and rotating. Once your gauge cools off, pop a flare, or two, or three.... Good Luck! That'll usually work perfectly. Or not.... then you'll need to have kept good track of all the atoms in your body, as you'll need to start picking them back up.

Option 2, Fight in inertia mode and move fast enough missiles can't track you down. Missiles don't perfectly follow newtonian physics, and they have a limited top speed. The fastest standard missiles only move at 1800... that's pretty slow for a explosive charge strapped to a rocket engine. Players can build custom missiles in excess or 2100 or so, but the AI never shoots anything faster at you.

Option 3, dump out all your flares and get an anti-missile system. It isn't perfect protection, but assuming the missile isn't closing to fast, it'll pop it quite reliably. IF you're headed AT the missile already, then the AMS probably won't get it in time. It's mainly just a safety net that gives you a good chance of surviving if you miss shooting or spoofing one.

I never use CM's. The guides say this is suicide; I disagree. I need to NOT move, not THRUST, and be a sitting duck for a CM to work, plus it needs to be fired at the last minute. And CM's take up slots I could equip more tech or missiles in. I just use an AMS and shoot them down with cannons. If I miss one, the AMS usually gets it. I can afford to be a bit riskier with the AMS on board, as it's just reliable enough to pick up the slack.

I don't think it works while cloaked, altho missiles will keep tracking even if you cloak.

Post by **DaveK** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:35 pm

One small point - CM's have their own dedicated slots - up to four of them with 25cm's in each. In fact of you dump them for an AMS you are losing an equipment slot

Post by **Marvin** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:37 pm

The stealth generator doesn't completely mask your heat signature. But the heat indicator isn't responsible for missiles being more agressive ... so don't shoot the messenger.

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:24 pm

It appears as if the majority of the AI/NPC missiles that are fired down-range (or at you) are of the heat-seeking type. Hence, the heat indicator on your HUD. Would you turn off a fire alarm if you thought it was a nuisance when it went off ? The heat indicator is sorta like that fire alarm, or buying insurance, or hedging a bet. P-J has some really good advice. Using/deploying your CM's in combat scenarios does take some practise. The Anti-Missile System (AMS) is also a good thought. With the EM 2.XXX genre, the AMS appears to be working a lot more rapidly than before, and is a viable ships' defense option. I would not recommend using the Automatic Counter-Measure (ACM) dispenser unless you're really, really familiar with it as it spews CM's like a run-away fire hose. The AMS in combination with a well-stocked CM battery (pods 1-4, or any combination) has served to keep me able to fly and fight effectively. It is a bit of a coin-toss on whether to have/keep CM's installed. As you progess in building your skill set, you may notice that you're not using them as much, or if ever. On the frames that I fly/fight, I've no less than a single pod (25 CM-count per each) along with the AMS, shield recharger, and cannon relays/heatsinks. Again, frame-dependant, I may also have a full suite (4 pods) of CM's available. Better to have them and not need them, than to need them and not have them, imhyco.

[wouldn't bring a knife to a gun-fight either]

:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:39 pm

The CM's are not as effective as they once were.

What I do now in combat is...
- Keep your speed up enough so it gives you time to turn around (in Inertia) and shoot them down,
That is pretty easy unless you are in the middle of 10 reds LOL!
- Launch CM's at very close range in Inertia while you are not using any thrusters at all.
- Most important is that 1 hit will NOT destroy you, unless you've taken a lot of damage already.
It might be worth taking a hit if you can keep momentum and avoid the rest of the missiles!

Think of the AI now as a human player and act accordingly. They are MUCH smarter in the expansion.
(Imho much more realistic and more fun. Love it. Combat should NOT be easy)

One good advice I can give you is to keep fighting AI's in Olympus for practice.
I know you got the skills to fight elsewhere, but to test different tactics it's pefect in Olympus.

It's a total different ballgame now and we all need to adjust to it.

As you said, CM's are much less effective now, so adapt and overcome!;)

(I just finsihed the IMG with a new profile and it was hard, but so much fun!)
RC and Cargo joined me for some contracts and it was great fun!

Yeah, I know, the chicken smells funny but he sure can fight!:P

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:40 pm

I like the heat feature, it makes it more relastic! Missile evasion and use of cms should not be easy and guaranteeing 100% protection from missiles.
The pilot should be in some way in control of tactics to evade missiles and not only rely on equipment to protect him!....

zex · Post by **zex** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:07 am

I have luck popping CMs a little further out - It just seems to take more than it did pre-xpac when you could pop 1-2 and be cool.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:27 pm

Dear gawd, god-demis. I love your profile pic

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:46 am

From post: 156262, Topic: tid=10448, author=PlasmaJedi wrote:
Option 2, Fight in inertia mode and move fast enough missiles can't track you down. Missiles don't perfectly follow newtonian physics, and they have a limited top speed. The fastest standard missiles only move at 1800... that's pretty slow for a explosive charge strapped to a rocket engine. Players can build custom missiles in excess or 2100 or so, but the AI never shoots anything faster at you.

This is the second time I see it being mentioned that custom missiles can go faster than 1800. I have made the missile slider settings table with all the combinations of maximum and minimum slider settings and the top speed of any custom missile is 95 Decameters/Second = 950 meters/second

You can check out the tables on SeeJay's Website under Tools, Weapons Lab Missiles!

http://www.evochron2.junholt.se/

PlasmaJedi · Post by **PlasmaJedi** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:23 pm

From post: 156392, Topic: tid=10448, author=Maarschalk wrote:
From post: 156262, Topic: tid=10448, author=PlasmaJedi wrote:
Option 2, Fight in inertia mode and move fast enough missiles can't track you down. Missiles don't perfectly follow newtonian physics, and they have a limited top speed. The fastest standard missiles only move at 1800... that's pretty slow for a explosive charge strapped to a rocket engine. Players can build custom missiles in excess or 2100 or so, but the AI never shoots anything faster at you.

This is the second time I see it being mentioned that custom missiles can go faster than 1800. I have made the missile slider settings table with all the combinations of maximum and minimum slider settings and the top speed of any custom missile is 95 Decameters/Second = 950 meters/second

You can check out the tables on SeeJay's Website under Tools, Weapons Lab Missiles!

http://www.evochron2.junholt.se/

Huh... thanks for saying so. I read that in a guide, probably the one you firt heard it in. I've never actually tried making my own missiles because using missiles is expensive and something I rarely do.

Thanks again for clearing that up. Really. I hate mis-information, especially when I accidentally gave it.

49rTbird · Post by **49rTbird** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:46 pm

Lets hope the AI don't make their own missiles!!

D:P

god-demis · Post by **god-demis** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:36 am

It is funny how fast the conversation can take a different turn! I asked something and got answers for a lot of questions!

Anyway, seems like the heat feature is here to stay, so I better get used to it...
Thanks to all!!

god-demis · Post by **god-demis** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:42 am

Oh, and Sherlock, try this site if you like : http://avatars.jurko.net

Cargo · Post by **Cargo** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:43 pm

I like the heat feature but I do think it's weird that solely moving my gunsite causes almost as much heat as turning my engines on.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:20 pm

From post: 156496, Topic: tid=10448, author=Cargo wrote:I like the heat feature but I do think it's weird that solely moving my gunsite causes almost as much heat as turning my engines on.

It takes a lot of energy in space to get a big mass moving in a certain direction relatively to its current direction and velocity!...

god-demis · Post by **god-demis** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:33 am

Well, that's it. I've had it with heat. This morning I was playing campaign mission where you have to kill an ace combat in Sierra and he was escorted by 11 baddies!!! You can't imagine how much time it took me to defeat him, 90% of the time I was shooting down their %$^^%#$% missile spam!!
Come on!! If you want to have it realistic, that would mean that after sometime they ran out of missiles!! Anyway, I must have killed over 200 missiles and got hit by at least 8-9 during the 2 hours I was struggling, and once again I will say that CM's do absolutely nothing!!! I had green heat indicator and still got hit after I was spamming CMs!! God bless my auto repair system!!
I can now say that I am not having fun with this game anymore and I miss the old version. Actually I dont use anything from the new version, not the terrain walker, not the custom weapons, and even the increased ship size is a little confusing...
I don't know how much I will keep playing...

MiaZ · Post by **MiaZ** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:45 am

Not using the custom weapons might be part of the problem there.
Default weapons really seem week now in comparison.

The anti-missile system is quite useful now that the missiles having a better chance of hitting you.

You might just need to adjust your tactics a bit more, after awhile it doesn't seem that much harder then
the older version ones you get used to it.

god-demis · Post by **god-demis** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:15 am

From post: 157332, Topic: tid=10448, author=MiaZ wrote:Not using the custom weapons might be part of the problem there.
Default weapons really seem week now in comparison.

The anti-missile system is quite useful now that the missiles having a better chance of hitting you.

You might just need to adjust your tactics a bit more, after awhile it doesn't seem that much harder then
the older version ones you get used to it.

Problem is not the damage I make, and I already use anti missile, problem is the missile spam in combination with the useless now CM's.
I can stay alive if I want, but I dont want to spend hours every time just to finish 1 contract. It's just not fun anymore...
Thanks for your advice anyway.

-splosives- · Post by **-splosives-** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:49 am

The heat feature was already there. The only difference is that you can see it now.
And CM's are less effective, and that's good, because now missiles are not useless like they were.

Nubarus · Post by **Nubarus** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:13 am

True, missiles where useless in the old version, that's why capital ships where a joke since the only defense they have are the 4 missile launchers and the close range flak.

god-demis, you play offline right? Have to tried hiring a small fleet to see if that helps?

Since the AI got better so does your own hired AI fleet.

Ivarr · Post by **Ivarr** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:55 pm

I quite like the heat feature. I'm new to combat - only shot perhaps 25 enemies or so, but I feel the heat feature gives me another feature to play with. It adds immersion.

In smaller fights I don't need to use counter measures anyway because I can just turn and fire at the incoming rockets. Unless the rocket is right behind me and I'm flying a fat ship, in which case I'll turn off IDS to cruise steady and 'cool' the ship, fire some counter measures, put power to the shields - until the rocket threat is over.

I have been using my particle cannon to fire down the rockets. It seems I don't have to aim at them precisely. As long as they are within reasonable reach, I simply fire a few shots at their approximate location and it does the job. I do not know how laser beams work against them - perhaps they need to be closer.

Post by **Marvin** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:57 pm

From post: 157340, Topic: tid=10448, author=Nubarus wrote:Since the AI got better so does your own hired AI fleet.

Indeed. The "game" has become more realistic in that one lone pilot can't take on an entire fleet of enemy ships and expect to come out the victor. Unless he adjusts his tactics to avoid the threat and force the enemy to waste their missiles (which is do-able). And you'll find that the pilots you hire now give as good as they get. I hired three to assist in a multi-waypoint against Vonari in the Sierra WZ and all of us survived. Took them down to Pearl, hiring on another four, and managed to complete another multi-waypoint contract. Where once I flew solo in SP, we are now eight!

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:58 pm

From post: 157354, Topic: tid=10448, author=Ivarr wrote:I do not know how laser beams work against them - perhaps they need to be closer.

Laser beams do not do anything against missiles! Atleast I have never been able to take one out with a beam weapon!....