Fulcrum Suicide! Fulcrums Safety Feature is needed!

Hemlet · Post by **Hemlet** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:05 am

From post: 153012, Topic: tid=10231, author=Marvin wrote: nukes are about the size of a 500 pounder.

See, I've gone and learned something today. This is why talking about game mechanics is a good thing.

polyvinyl_zer0k · Post by **polyvinyl_zer0k** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:34 am

Leave 'em as is. If we demanded that Vice delete everything which annoyed somebody, not much would be left of the game.

As a game developer it's your duty to pay attention to player feedback and make appropriate changes when called for. This doesn't mean you need to remove or change every little thing that anyone complains about, but when an issue does arise that needs attention, it should be looked at. This thread is a perfect example. In less than a day this thread is three pages deep and many people are discussing it. There is obviously an issue here that needs to be addressed.

FT's have ruined clan wars for me. I've encountered way too many people who use "we're outnumbered" or similar excuses as a reason to spam spawn fulcrums. The people who don't think there are any problem with fulcrums either haven't really been affected by the issue so their stance is "buck up and live with it", or they're the trolls who get satisfaction out of suicide bombing.

I challenge any one of you "buck up and live with it" folks to spend an hour getting blown up repeatedly at no cost to the bomber. Oh, you're just going to move to another system to do contracts? Here, let me press ~ and find out where you are so I can continue the harassment.

Either save on launch or get rid of them in multiplayer. They're the reason clan wars are mostly retarded.

Scavenger4711 · Post by **Scavenger4711** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:25 am

What about making FTs weaker. Okay, well it would miss the point for it being a WMD... however it still would be a nice weapon that's specialized in doing large AOE damage. In it's center it could damage ships like an Exodus missile and the further you're away from it the weaker the blast becomes (I think it's like that already).

So in the end, it wouldn't kill a tons of players instantly, but it would damage them just quite a lot, and even after that, they still might have a chance to escape.

Just my suggestion

DennyMala · Post by **DennyMala** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:30 am

I apologize in advance for any stupidity I might say, I skipped most of the topic read due to lack of time.

I never had to resort to the esc key to protect myself from a TF blast, usually you got more than enough time to quickly set a waypoint in system a bit away and jump there.

When there is the need or I feel there is danger, I usually plan the escape route right before getting in the troubling area, so I'll be able to just press F2 and jump to security.

Just a little two cents to say that we need to adapt and overcome the difficulties and peculiarity of the game, and not manipulate it to fit perfecly our playing. That's the fun.

-splosives- · Post by **-splosives-** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:29 am

@ Denny: I said this in this topic before. The fact that you can avoid FT's doesn't make up for the fact that it's a dumb weapon.

The fact that it is good for trading is not good! It even feels like an exploit to me. I always thought trading in evochron is it's weakest point, and one of the reasons are the fulcrum torpedos.
The only way an FT could be useful is, like Vonari said, to kill people in stealth. But I will gladly give up this ability for the removal of annoying, frustrating use of FT's.

FT's as a cap ship destroyer is also a bad idea. Cap ships are supposed to be really strong!, not something you can destroy with 1 button and 2 million credits.
That's right, you're killing things with money instead of skill.

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:42 am

I play simulation games that are as realistic as possible.
If they are not, I don't play.

My guns are not hitting much since the MDTS
update. If it's a game issue or my connection I
don't know, but it took away all the joy for me.
That's why I don't play anymore.

Same story with FT's. It is not realistic
that you can use them, die and get them back
with no cost at all. Vice removed the ESC usage
to avoid that you launch and cheat hide ( Thx Vice).
It should be very costful to use a FT and should
make the user think twice before launching one.
You should never get it back after you die.
Maybe a FT should use all hardpoints like the Excal?

Anyway, that's just my 2 cents.
SeeJay

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:24 pm

Removing totally the FT from the game would be too extreme. It does make sense that they should only be used against capital ships or Stations though. If the multiplayer part of the game is broken because of them. An overhaul of this feature is needed.

Thus as a specific weapon against capital ships or Stations, I suggest that a Fulcrum would only be fired and destroy / severly damage Capital Ships or Stations after their targets are acquired during a time delay to be defined. That means it would take time locking a Capital Ship or a Station. And during this time, the attacking player is vulnerable and must be protected from their escort / defenders.

This was a great feature in Wing Commander series, I wonder why it isn't already in the game.

[Edited on 12-25-2012 by Munshine]

MiaZ · Post by **MiaZ** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:46 pm

From post: 153028, Topic: tid=10231, author=SeeJay wrote:I play simulation games that are as realistic as possible.
If they are not, I don't play.

My guns are not hitting much since the MDTS
update. If it's a game issue or my connection I
don't know, but it took away all the joy for me.
That's why I don't play anymore.

Same story with FT's. It is not realistic
that you can use them, die and get them back
with no cost at all. Vice removed the ESC usage
to avoid that you launch and cheat hide ( Thx Vice).
It should be very costful to use a FT and should
make the user think twice before launching one.
You should never get it back after you die.
Maybe a FT should use all hardpoints like the Excal?

Anyway, that's just my 2 cents.
SeeJay

I agree with everything you say but that part about,
guns not hitting much since the MDTS update.
Isnt it the other way around, that guns always hit now whereas in the past they didn't?

Fulcrums using all hardpoints like the Excal would be good.
An auto save after releasing one, kind of like the auto save after using a station detonator
would be a bonus too : )

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:53 pm

From post: 153034, Topic: tid=10231, author=MiaZ wrote:
From post: 153028, Topic: tid=10231, author=SeeJay wrote:I play simulation games that are as realistic as possible.
If they are not, I don't play.

My guns are not hitting much since the MDTS
update. If it's a game issue or my connection I
don't know, but it took away all the joy for me.
That's why I don't play anymore.

Same story with FT's. It is not realistic
that you can use them, die and get them back
with no cost at all. Vice removed the ESC usage
to avoid that you launch and cheat hide ( Thx Vice).
It should be very costful to use a FT and should
make the user think twice before launching one.
You should never get it back after you die.
Maybe a FT should use all hardpoints like the Excal?

Anyway, that's just my 2 cents.
SeeJay
I agree with everything you say but that part about,
guns not hitting much since the MDTS update.
Isnt it the other way around, that guns always hit now whereas in the past they didn't?

Fulcrums using all hardpoints like the Excal would be good.
An auto save after releasing one, kind of like the auto save after using a station detonator
would be a bonus too : )

Nope, last time I tried I could hardly hit anything at all.

Might try it again if any updates have "fixed" it for me.
As it is now, it's just plain boring for me.

It's a real pitty since I love the game!

Star King · Post by **Star King** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:23 pm

Guys I love that one Fulcrum can take all your hard points and increasing the price of a fulcrum to one billion credits with not getting them back when you respawn.
Yes people can save their profiles but if you take up all eight hard points with one Fulcrum then aggravation is limited to one lauch not eight fulcrum launches.
It's nice that we can all discuss and share our ideas passionately without anyone getting angry.

Star King · Post by **Star King** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:17 pm

I was innocently coming out of the station when a fulcrum took me out. I am in no clan although I will put tags on to help my friends. I had no tags on or picked a side when I was destroyed by fulcrum blast. Then I put tags and joined the fight.

Post by **Marvin** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:22 pm

From post: 153020, Topic: tid=10231, author=polyvinyl_zer0k wrote:Either save on launch or get rid of them in multiplayer. They're the reason clan wars are mostly retarded.

I voted for "save on launch" because nothing else makes sense. An FT is a nuke ... or an antimatter weapon ... or whatever. Realistically, nukes are no bigger than conventional weapons and I see no reason why an FT would take up more than one weapon hard point. Tactical nukes are small ... they fit on the head of a missile and are fired from fighter planes. And tactical nukes are made to take out a flight of inbound bombers ... not just one plane. Or an aircraft carrier (yeah, just one nuke can do that).

What you can't do is deploy a nuke, get caught in the blast, come back to life, pick another target and fire the same nuke over again.

Post by **Marvin** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:24 pm

From post: 153089, Topic: tid=10231, author=Star King wrote:I was innocently coming out of the station when a fulcrum took me out.

Me too ... only I was trapped in an asteroid cave. Once. Just once. Then I learned to recognize who uses 'em and took precautions.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:32 pm

From post: 153093, Topic: tid=10231, author=Marvin wrote:
From post: 153020, Topic: tid=10231, author=polyvinyl_zer0k wrote:Either save on launch or get rid of them in multiplayer. They're the reason clan wars are mostly retarded.
I voted for "save on launch" because nothing else makes sense. An FT is a nuke ... or an antimatter weapon ... or whatever. Realistically, nukes are no bigger than conventional weapons and I see no reason why an FT would take up more than one weapon hard point. Tactical nukes are small ... they fit on the head of a missile and are fired from fighter planes. And tactical nukes are made to take out a flight of inbound bombers ... not just one plane. Or an aircraft carrier (yeah, just one nuke can do that).

What you can't do is deploy a nuke, get caught in the blast, come back to life, pick another target and fire the same nuke over again.

And Marvin has gotten to the heart of the matter here IMO.

Star King · Post by **Star King** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:36 pm

Then Rubber Chickens idea to reduce fulcrum blast power makes sense. And since you have eight hard points reduce blast power to 1/8th of its current strength.
Use Maarschalk idea of requiring a target before fulcrum launch.
Auto-save after fulcrum launch.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:02 pm

What do you mean by Save on Launch? This is bad and can be used as an exploit by the one launching the FTs and by the one who want to escape the destruction by one that is not used for excessive abuse!. Like the one time(occasionally more than one time!) Welcome Ceremony by clan [BA]......

:P

zex · Post by **zex** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:14 pm

I don't see how save-on-launch can be abused. I keep seeing people claim that it can, but I don't see how one couldn't do the same thing with the quicksave key..

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:25 pm

At the moment if you try to quick save in a PvP loosing Battle you automatically loose the battle I think! So the Save on the launch of the Fulcrum Torpedo will overide the destruction of the loosing party!.....

KingArthur · Post by **KingArthur** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:19 am

Again, Simply CAUSE AN FT TO REMAIN "DORMANT" and UNABLE TO FIRE Until a SD IS DETECTED IN THE SAME SYSTEM. THEN THE WEAPON BECOMES ACTIVE. If The STATION IS DESTROYED It Returns to "DORMANT", UNABLE TO FIRE.

Chronathan · Post by **Chronathan** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:23 pm

Honestly, at least for MP, I believe the game saving feature could use a little rework. Perhaps instead of having quicksaves have only an autosave system that saves on completion of contract, jump to new system, dock with station etc. Saves could be more 'spawn points' that you need to trigger rather than a traditional save system. Equipment and missiles that you use should not appear back on your ship upon death.

Think of it as more of the Borderlands reconstruction system. Everytime you die, your ship gets reconstructed at the nearest spawn point with all the equipment you had when you died. This might be too much of a rework but this would eliminate the FT problem and the weirdness where you can save on one end of the galaxy, spend an hour jumping to the other end, and then blow yourself up and reload all the way back where you started. (Maybe this is intended? Not sure)

[Edited on 12-29-2012 by Chronathan]

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:41 pm

From post: 153194, Topic: tid=10231, author=KingArthur wrote:Again, Simply CAUSE AN FT TO REMAIN "DORMANT" and UNABLE TO FIRE Until a SD IS DETECTED IN THE SAME SYSTEM. THEN THE WEAPON BECOMES ACTIVE. If The STATION IS DESTROYED It Returns to "DORMANT", UNABLE TO FIRE.

As I said earlier, the FT is not a anti-SD weapon.
It has nothing to do with SD's. It's a mass destruction
weapon, period.

Some pilots use it against multiple fies!

Either it's there to use for everyone or just
remove it. Looks like that's the solution here.

Post by **Marvin** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:01 pm

From post: 153606, Topic: tid=10231, author=Chronathan wrote:Perhaps instead of having quicksaves have only an autosave system that saves on completion of contract, jump to new system, dock with station etc. Saves could be more 'spawn points' that you need to trigger rather than a traditional save system.

As has been discussed many times before, the game already has certain places where an auto-save is triggered. It's been suggested that another auto-save be added whenever an FT is launched ... but, evidently, that in itself won't close the loophole. So, other options are being explored and tested.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:46 am

Awful, awful, god awful. Thanks alot for the whining guys. Now awesome FT's are useless pieces' of doo. They worked fine how they were before... now... BOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:05 am

Sorry Austin. I just wanted to see the exploit get fixed, not ruin the weapon itself.

Post by **Marvin** » Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:26 am

Ditto. Can't win 'em all, though.