Fulcrum Suicide! Fulcrums Safety Feature is needed!

[Star King]

This is a friendly and honest conversation, I bet we can all agree that Cindy has fired more fulcrums then anyone. Kat is number 2 in firing fulcrums. This is not a criticism this is a truth.
I have never fired one which is a choice! Marvin, Busch, Rubber Chicken, Flash, Captain Cronic and Denny have never fired one in my presence.
This is ruining the game for all the new players and others.
Miaz the other night they were being fired like crazy and is why Rubber Chicken quit his clan. I was destroyed by fulcrum blast and I was just coming out of the station.
I do not believe Cindy or Kat were involved but tomorrow is another day.
People perform fulcrum suicide attacks and get their fulcrums back two minutes later to ruin more of your fun.

[Cindy]

@ Cindy - I am standing for what I believe in by participating in a discussion here. I am not complaining, just offering my opinion.

The reason I won't give a taste of their own medicine in relation to FT suicides is that - if I troll the person who's trolling me, then I become a Troll as well. So in that respect the original Troll becomes the victor by (in principal) making me just like them.

Jeez. I just quit a CLAN due to FT suicide attacks, do you think I have any interest in employing the tactics I felt were that wrong to use now? Would kinda cancel the choice I made and the principal I've chosen to stand by.

Heck, if that's the case, the reinstate my clan commision, load me up with FT's, - and when does the holiday cease-fire end? (not)

My post was directed at several players (mainly not you, so please don't take it personally). I didn't name call-signs and so please don't insinuate that I meant you personally. I don't plan on starting naming call-signs, but there is a pattern to these complaints and I'm tired of it. If I didn't directly say R.C. or Miaz or SkyKing or Marvin or Kat or any other username, then please don't take it personal - take it in general.

By giving them their own medicine, does not mean to do suicide attacks. It merely means if they want to play with FTs, play FTs with them. If that means that I troll, well, then... so be it.

This is a friendly and honest conversation, I bet we can all agree that Cindy has fired more fulcrums then anyone. Kat is number 2 in firing fulcrums. This is not a criticism this is a truth.
I have never fired one which is a choice! Marvin, Busch, Rubber Chicken, Flash, Captain Cronic and Denny have never fired one in my presence.
This is ruining the game for all the new players and others.
Miaz the other night they were being fired like crazy and is why Rubber Chicken quit his clan. I was destroyed by fulcrum blast and I was just coming out of the station.
I do not believe Cindy or Kat were involved but tomorrow is another day.
People perform fulcrum suicide attacks and get their fulcrums back two minutes later to ruin more of your fun.

Kat and I were not involved in the conflict you speak of.

I personally have seem you fire an FT SkyKing... and not just once. You don't like what I had to say, so now you want to point fingers. Pointing fingers solves nothing more than to get arguments started.



I'd personally appreciate you guys to stop trying to twist my words around. It isn't fun for me like it wouldn't be fun for you if I did it in return.

If you don't like FTs being used, then just don't use them. Or, even better, why not ask Vice to just take them out? If this is going to just be a big fight, I personally would ask Vice to remove FTs. I might fire FTs. I might run from fights. But that doesn't mean that by taking the FTs away, I'd be stopped in keeping ya'll on your toes when I feel up to it. There is a fine line that I had to learn to walk. Go right ahead and take FTs away if you think it would stop this. Ya'll would just find something else to complain about.

I rest my case.

[CaptJack92a]

As far as the safety thing goes I am working on an 'idea video' that will narrate some feature ideas I have and will include an obstacle avoidance/course plotting system [if the coders go for that sort of overhaul] all in all it will generally improve both performance and possibly gameplay experience as jumping wont just be safer and more in depth, it would also give the player something cool to observe rather than a blast of light and then poof you are there... Anyway, I'll make a thread when it is finished.

[Marvin]

This game is special in that there is no tangible reward for killing people.

Take a gander at step 6a.

CONDUCTING CONTRACTS BETWEEN PILOTS

Note: To successfully initiate a contracts between two pilots, it is important for the parties to complete the following steps in the order listed.

1. Contractor - TAGET CONTRACTEE (T)
2. Contractee - TARGET CONTRACTOR (T)
3. Contractor - SEND TRADE REQUEST (F4)
4. Contractee - ACCEPT TRADE REQUEST (F4)
5. Contractor - DETERMINE REWARD

• a. "Arrange Contract" Button - SELECT
  b. "Cash" Button - SELECT
  c. "Enter Amount" Window - INPUT CREDIT PAYOUT
  d. Correct Amount Offered - CHECK & PRESS ENTER

6. Contract Type - CYCLE TO SELECT OPTION

• a. Destroy Player - SELECT NAME OF TARGET
  b. Destroy Hostiles - SELECT TOTAL NUMBER
  c. Recover Materials - SELECT TYPE OF MATERIAL
  • Platinum Units
    Biological Units
    Oxygen Units
    Gold Units
    Silver Units
    Water Units
    Metal Alloys
    Diamonds

7. Contractee - PRESS "ACCEPT" BUTTON
8. Contract - CHECK

• a. Inventory Console - OPEN (F3)
  b. Trade Contract Description - CHECK

9. Contractee - COMPLETE THE CONTRACT
10. Trade Contract Completed - CHECK

• a. Credits Paid Out - CHECK
  b. Credits Received - CHECK
  c. Current Pilot(s) Status - AUTO SAVED

Note: For "Recover Materials" contracts, pilots need to perform a standard Trade in order to complete the contract.

[Marvin]

If you don't like FTs being used, then just don't use them. Or, even better, why not ask Vice to just take them out?

Cindy, the way I read it, the complaint isn't that FTs exist ... it's that you get your FT back after using it if you stand fast and get blown up with it.

[Maarschalk]

LOL Marvin!......:P

[Rubber Chicken]

@ Cindy - Understood. I was merely commenting from my point of view on your statement that covered all of the participants.

@ Star King - I personally have absolutely NO problem with Nukes... or their usage... or repeated usage. (or excessive usage:P). What I have a problem with is usage with intent to respawn with hardpoints loaded for a rinse-and-repeat.
I guess I have a bit of a problem with 'ridiculously excessive' usage.

I quit [LL] for other reasons regarding the policy of validating Suicide FT's as an acceptable tactic. Not the fact nukes were being used, just how they were used.

Like I said, If Percival hadn't left, and merely filed a complaint - the policy would still be in place and it would still be business as usual. - With many more complaints being thrown about on the political channels to boot.

I also didn't really care for the fact that if one Clan member used this attack then ALL Clan members would be marked for an identical retaliation from the opposition. I know this point is 'game logic', and IMO whatever. I just personally don't care for it. So I removed myself from the situation.

[Edited on 12-24-2012 by Rubber Chicken]

[Edited on 12-24-2012 by Rubber Chicken]

[Rubber Chicken]

As far as the safety thing goes I am working on an 'idea video' that will narrate some feature ideas I have and will include an obstacle avoidance/course plotting system [if the coders go for that sort of overhaul] all in all it will generally improve both performance and possibly gameplay experience as jumping wont just be safer and more in depth, it would also give the player something cool to observe rather than a blast of light and then poof you are there... Anyway, I'll make a thread when it is finished.

There is an obstacle avoidance system already available (for civ pilots anyway). Hire a Navigation Officer.

Also this post is off-topic. Please create a new thread to discuss it.

[Edited on 12-24-2012 by Rubber Chicken]

[Cindy]

If you don't like FTs being used, then just don't use them. Or, even better, why not ask Vice to just take them out?

Cindy, the way I read it, the complaint isn't that FTs exist ... it's that you get your FT back after using it if you stand fast and get blown up with it.

It depends whose post you be reading Marvin.

[Star King]

I have never fired one and I think Rubber Chicken, Flash, Busch, Marvin King Arthur, Hawk Eye, Miaz and Captain Cronic will be back me up on this. I only use Excalibers and nothing more. You can say anything about anyone but truth be told that
I was not attacking you (Cindy or Kat) I was expressing a truth that a person who commits fulcrum suicide loses nothing. And since we are being adult about this subject then we must address this topic to help make this game fun for all.
Otherwise this fantastic game will not grow. I believe its hard for people who use this weapon to understand how frustrating it is to get blown up innocently. Do this to a new player multiple times and they quit.
Like a station detonator once you use a fulcrum you don't get back and if you blow yourself up in a suicide you lose your weapons in your hard points when you respan.

[Edited on 12-25-2008 by Star King]

[Maarschalk]

Ussually to deploy a WMD(Weapon of Mass Destruction) two sets of keys and two sets of codes and the Command of the President is needed!......:P

[Star King]

This is a great discussion and may be a auto-quick save is the answer (like a station detonator).

[Cindy]

This is a great discussion and may be a auto-quick save is the answer (like a station detonator).

The first part of your statement is arguable, but if something has to be done, I'd say the second part is a good enough solution.

[Rubber Chicken]

Extending the time would cancel the new 10 seconds to exit feature.....

If any penalty should be imposed for dying, IMHO it should be financial. A credit penalty of some sort - proportional to the players bank account and waived for the starting rank - should be empoyed.

Once a player ranks-up to the second tier either civilian or military then the condition applies.

If a player ranks up, then loses all of his credits due to death, then they should be able to respawn for free, but be left with just enough credits to count a 'gas money'.

It's not perfect, but it's an idea....

so if i die in a mission or whatever happen, i lose all my cash

I meant a percentage proportional to how much money you have. So high ranking palyers wouldn't pay pennies for a new ship, and newer palyers wouldn't be paying with all thier money.

If a high ranking player is killed down to bankruptcy, then the respawn fee gets waived and they are left with a small amount of credits for 'gas money'. Then they would begin paying again after they reached 50,000 credits or so.

[Edited on 12-24-2012 by Rubber Chicken]

[-splosives-]

I have a good idea!
How about remove the FT from the game?
All it does in the game is ruin stuff.
It makes contracts too easy, it makes trading too easy, it makes PvP'ers annoyed, it gets exploited by suiciders, and it even forces a 10 second delay on the esc menu.
I can't really think of a single moment in game where an FT enhances the gaming experience.
It's not fun to use, and it is annoying when it's used on you.
The game will most likely be better without this type of weapon.

[littleboy]

you crazy man, i seat on 500.000.000 cash and my gameplay make me die a lot of times, and not by suicide or crazy gameplay against player into roleplay things, dunno really the point about those "FT trolls who harass others" as much as this Evoverse is quite big.. i mean... hey man, just push Alt+F2 fly away, find a system, fly, discover, change area, change faction, change clan, what the hell you go ahead of idiots when you have so much freedom ?

[-splosives-]

It's not that FT's can't be avoided, it's just that they serve no good purpose in the game, so they should be removed.
Allowing FT's in this game is like not removing a benign tumor because it doesn't kill you. But it's still a tumor, so you should remove it!

[littleboy]

I do like them, and use them wisely against capital ship concentration + small reds in groups, i learn a lot about how not to die while using them, but sometimes accident happens because all hardpoints are filled with different stuff, rage, ft, exodus, stealth field,... so... sometimes, late, in action, when all's goin soo fast around that heeellll station you need, NEED, to go inside for fuel that ship... gosh.. and then instead of shooting rage one it's an FT one you goes n a target less than 1K far.. so, you know you cant escape.. bang..just try to remember where your last save was... ho no..bad times

but man, i trained long times for deal with that wonderful swarmer's suppressor and biggies annihilator

[-splosives-]

The fact that you can kill a cap ship with it is not a good thing.
It is very bad, even. This is supposed to be a space combat sim, not a space nuke and watch everything die sim!

[Edited on 12-25-2012 by -splosives-]

[littleboy]

The fact that you can kill a cap ship with it it not a good thing.
It is very bad, even. This is supposed to be a space combat sim, not a space nuke and watch everything die sim!

ok, then, make capital ship stronger, not suppressing technology, scale it

see the point ?

[-splosives-]

Would you play an FPS if you could drop a bomb on the enemy team and kill them all instantly? I wouldn't!
Would you play space invaders if you could clear the screen with one bullet? I wouldn't!
Any game that has a "press this button to kill everything" option has some issues in my opinion.
And in evochron, the FT is this issue.

[Hemlet]

(Warning: Wall Of Text Ahead)

If this discussion was happening pre-expansion, I would be against the removal/tweaking of FTs based two virtues: combat in the game was easy enough as it was, and FTs make fantastic trading goods (as anyone who spends time trading quickly finds out)

However, post-expansion content and tweaks have changed a lot of things. There are other options for high-value missile hardpoint items (the fuel, charge, and shield packs), and now combat is actually challenging and a great deal of fun. The only virtue FTs really have left is that they make a really big, really pretty explosion (which if you're suiciding with them, you don't really get to enjoy that). At this point, some of the only things I can think of to rationalize their continued existence within the game are:

a)they are still valuable trading items

b)FTs are present within the lore of the game as cap-ship killers, and it wouldn't make sense for them to just kind of "vanish", even if that would be the quickest solution.

So, in an effort to contribute to the discussion, I'ma just throw in my two cents as to how the FT situation could be mitigated. In regards to their presence within the lore of the game, and their intended role as cap ship destroying weapons, why is it that they only take up as much room as a regular missile? For the size of the explosion they make, I find it kind of funny that they're supposedly the same size as a Starfire or Exodus missile. You'd think something like that would take up a lot more room for the kind of payload that an FT delivers. I would propose that an FT would take up multiple, or even all of a ship's missile hardpoints, limiting how many a ship can carry at a time.

However, limiting how many FTs a ship could have at one time still wouldn't solve their abuse when used in suicide tactics. At best, it would just limit it a little more. How else could the use of FTs against small targets be discouraged? I refer again to the weapon's in-universe role as an anti capital ship weapon. Short of a direct hit, I can't see a reason why the FT would detonate. I would imagine that it's function would be to penetrate the a capital ship's hull and THEN detonate, rather than just detonating on contact or after a set amount of time. If there's no direct hit to activate this supposed detonation mechanism within the FT, why would it go off at all?

Now, the problem with both of those solutions is that, on the slim chance that they would be considered, they would represent what I can only assume is a prohibitive amount of work on Vice's part. I'm a writer, coding is a bit beyond my ken, so I don't actually know if that would be the case. Regardless, if FTs are to be overhauled, tweaked, or even straight up removed, I would like it if the fuel, charge, and shield packs became a bit more common to compensate for their absence/reduced availability. Mostly because I'd need something else to fill my hardpoints with for trade runs .

[Vonari translatorial]

How are you going to stop a pilot with a stealth gen from destroying a station without using a Fulcrum?
Fulcrum is an acceptable weapons against stealth.

[Flash]

I think there should be some control of Fulcrums but not much. I think is should be handled like SD's. An immediate save when they are deployed. Not sure about proximity mines. Maybe them too.

[Marvin]

Leave 'em as is. If we demanded that Vice delete everything which annoyed somebody, not much would be left of the game. And, btw, nukes are about the size of a 500 pounder.