universe sandbox

Major Grubert · Post by **Major Grubert** » Wed May 30, 2012 8:42 am

Hi all,
i use to play with that "game" Universe Sandbox
last night while playing EM i was thinking...

do you think it is possible to reproduce an evochron "map" in Universe Sandbox ?

Dunno, maybe not because of scale and different bodys dynamics...

Does someone else play with that sandbox game ?

see you
mido : IGN Major Grubert

Major Grubert · Post by **Major Grubert** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:08 pm

http://universesandbox.com/help/ubox/

do someone think it is possible to use that for create an Evoverse 3d mapping ?

Agent Zirdik · Post by **Agent Zirdik** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:18 pm

I can't say either way, but I think that's a very interesting idea. I personally believe that the next logical step for space sims such as Evochron Mercenary is to have randomly generated universes.

Obviously not "randomly"; they would have to be organized around systems and not feel to cramped or spread out, and there have to be lots of surprises and interestingly generated combinations of celestial structures.

In short, space minecraft. And since Minecraft has to fill in all that space and make it all destructable, it would be relatively easy for a space sim to generate systems since they are basically a bunch of permanent balls X kms from a permanent star. The trick would be making some things feel like intention and not just random, such as stations or asteroids inside a nebula. Or a container hidden in an asteroid field.

This would really make exploration fun, because everytime you start up a server, everything is different, and people will not only FEEL like they will be discovering things no one else has, but they WILL be discovering things no one else has.

And if you suggesting that a universe SIMULATOR could be implemented for physics . . . well! Then we have orbital gravity and such, and the nav map will have to keep track of the actual movement of celestial bodies through 3D space!

Anyway, interesting idea Major Grubert, I did dabble with Universe Sandbox a bit, but it was too smart for me . . . and I wasn't really sure what to do in it

Post by **DaveK** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:55 pm

Hi Major.

I played Elite in 1981 -> on a BBC B micro in the UK (Google it if you need to!

) and dreamed . . .

I discovered Evochron a couple of years ago and it was those dreams of what Elite could be with (at that time) SciFi levels of computer power

I'm not sure but I suspect that (having looked at the link: http://universesandbox.com/help/ubox/) you are asking in the wrong place.

- what do you intend by "reproduce EM"? - Vice has spent many years developing games that have lead up to EM via a series of space sims; do you mean convert the code to universesandbox or do you mean recreate it in universesandbox? If so . . . .

- given that we have EM (a sandbox simulation) , why would you wish to recreate it? What would be the difference that would extend EM without making it a different game/sim? - I think that I mean . . . . what would you do to make it different without spoiling what it already is?

SDWeimer · Post by **SDWeimer** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:46 pm

If i'm reading correctly he wants to recreate the complete system map in universe sandbox, which could be possible but i'm not sure cause of the dynamics of Universe Sandbox

Post by **DaveK** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:03 pm

Why would you want to recreate the map without the background story? The map is just a series of star systems with planets etc and the sandbox base gives the freedom to do what you want.

Would the "recreation" have the same ships, technology, career options etc?

I'm not griping - I'm obviously missing something here!

Post by **Marvin** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:38 pm

Maybe it's just a map ... in 3 dimensions. Something to load on a secondary monitor ... or to play around with. Evo-orientation.

Nigel_Strange · Post by **Nigel_Strange** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:14 am

Time to jump in here.

The Evochron universe is relatively static. What the Universal Sandbox brings into play (I think, having not played with it) is grativational physics. Planets orbiting stars, moons orbiting planets, etc.

When you look at the Evochron universe, even using the long range scanners, you can't really see the planetary orbits, and it is hard to imagine how they would be moving, since everything is static. You go to a set of coordinates, and everything is right where you left it.

So, the long-game, I think, is for planetary motion, which would pretty much require an entirely new engine.

In the meantime, I just enjoy the game: doing missions, killing reds, finding treasure, exploring, that kind of thing.

Major Grubert · Post by **Major Grubert** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:29 am

From post: 143442, Topic: tid=9402, author=Marvin wrote: Maybe it's just a map ... in 3 dimensions. Something to load on a secondary monitor ... or to play around with. Evo-orientation.

yes, just like a very better em tool...

a map is not the territory

so it"s not about re-creation of evoverse, just mapping it, as em tool does but... in 3d and tools

my screen just get spoted with yellow spots on a 2d flat screen... it's ok for navigation, but terrific about mapping

but i forgot about the static planets in evoverse... so ubox wont work for that

better work with a simple 3d grid filled with cubes...

Post by **DaveK** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:26 pm

Thanks - I can see where you are coming from . . . . and hoping to go!

Although the Evoverse is 3D, virtually all the systems, planets etc are actually on the Y=0 plane ( a few planets are + or - a couple of sectors putting them just above or below the plane - enough to confuse newbies and experienced pilots who are day dreaming.

The only real use at the moment for greater Y values is for clans to hide their extra "maxing out" stations to prevent sneaky attacks when no one is on line. It would be really cool if a few uncharted systems could be way up or down with hints about their existence and location in some sort of hints system built into the game (gossip in a station, info found in debris cargo after a fight or in wrecks - that sort of thing). Someone went 30K+ upwards a while ago I seem to remember but is a lonely empty place!

The issue with populating the 3D potential of the system map would be the game size I suspect - Vice tries to keep it lean and mean for those who don't have the luxury of top spec state of the art PC's!

Post by **Marvin** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:41 pm

From post: 143505, Topic: tid=9402, author=DaveK wrote:It would be really cool if a few uncharted systems could be way up or down with hints about their existence and location in some sort of hints system built into the game (gossip in a station, info found in debris cargo after a fight or in wrecks - that sort of thing).

I could never figure out why a list of star coordinates would be considered a spoiler. Planets and floating cargo ... yes. But stars? It's not like stars can hide ... except those which don't give off visible light ... and I have yet to run across one of those in EM.

Major Grubert · Post by **Major Grubert** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:33 pm

From post: 143505, Topic: tid=9402, author=DaveK wrote:Thanks - I can see where you are coming from . . . . and hoping to go!

Although the Evoverse is 3D, virtually all the systems, planets etc are actually on the Y=0 plane ( a few planets are + or - a couple of sectors putting them just above or below the plane - enough to confuse newbies and experienced pilots who are day dreaming.

The only real use at the moment for greater Y values is for clans to hide their extra "maxing out" stations to prevent sneaky attacks when no one is on line. It would be really cool if a few uncharted systems could be way up or down with hints about their existence and location in some sort of hints system built into the game (gossip in a station, info found in debris cargo after a fight or in wrecks - that sort of thing). Someone went 30K+ upwards a while ago I seem to remember but is a lonely empty place!

The issue with populating the 3D potential of the system map would be the game size I suspect - Vice tries to keep it lean and mean for those who don't have the luxury of top spec state of the art PC's!

i was thinking about mapping

only mapping

not about reproducing at 1:1 scale a flyable Evoverse

just a simple 3d map, with tools as distance (in jump/fuel/meters/...) between to mapped systems, between bodys, shape of empty/unknown space and so on...

like a road map, you have some info but the road map is smaller than the earth ok... and it's mapping only known places .. and you have distances and others infos as well

right know there is no real satisfying map of evoverse for me

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:30 pm

A 3D star map would be cool ... and IMNSHO not really a spoiler. Measured in sectors. No planets ... or anything else you can't observe with the naked eyeball from across the Evoverse. Could this program provide that ... in a fashion similar to Atollksi's Nav Tracker (a program running in the background which could be called up with a hotkey)?

Star King · Post by **Star King** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:08 pm

Wait for the new EM expansion, I do not know but I think we are all in for a kool surprise.