New Frames & Inventory Console Features

[SeeJay]

Welcome Urisk.

Check the expansion thread. Your dreams might come true there;)
http://www.starwraith.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8244

[Galahad]

I'd like to second the mission's rewards. Besides doing trade runs (which have their own problems, already listed before) the missions are the meat and butter of the game. The risk vs. reward of contracts is not on par with high end equipment trading.

I think missiles (because they deplete over time) is a great way to reward different tasks. Someone said mining could provide materials for special missiles. Maybe contracts or your faction status could reward special missiles as well. A useful type of missile you cannot obtain any other way.

[Grimmrog]

buildable Cities on planets (up to 3 per Planet)
buildable Gates (maybe maximum 4 per System)
buildings on planets (like water power plants, or farms for agricultural products)

A very cool, but hard to implement features:
Planets having orbits around stars, and Moons around their Planets. But would be challengeing to dock on a ever moving station orbiting on a planet.

Random encounters, like comets or asteroid fields flying through the galaxy, beeing threats to planets and stations.

At least anything, that would make the actual static Universe more realistic and "living"

Edit: Oh yeah, and also the possibility to set prices for selling and buying on own stations, together with the possibility to give the station an initial amount of money it uses for trade.

[Edited on 4-13-2012 by Grimmrog]

[Rubber Chicken]

I tried Riftspace awhile back and I remember there was a Reload Option that went along with the contracts. For a small deduction in pay you got reloaded with whatever missiles the station had on hand. Sometimes it was a great deal and other times, not so much. Perhaps it could be reinstated in some form?

[Lant]

Capital ships. If I could fly a corvette, frigate, destroyer, cruiser, battlecruiser or even battleship I would buy this game.

[sundalo]

More types of capital ships, with escorts flying protection, scouting, etc, perhaps even specialized ships such as electronic warfare ships that can hinder your ships performance or one that can prevent you from jumping. Massive fleet warfare, invasions, contracts that involve big fleet battles, etc. If we can't fly them surely we can fight them in these aforementioned battles right? Besides cap ships can't pull off the amazing flying you can do on inertia LOL. :D:P

[Heyub C.S.]

I would enjoy if combat were less missile based. In any battle with more than five hostiles I find myself spending the greater part of the battle dodging missiles. The anti-missile is too unreliable to be of any use, I can't tell when it is going to work and when it is not so I might as well dodge missiles as usual, which begs the question, why buy one?

Less kinetic, it adds nothing to the game for me. When taking on my friend whoever is shot first loses because they are thrown around like a hopeless rag-doll until they are dead. The AIs seem entirely immune to kinetic.

Overall I find the combat dissatisfying, it is monotonous - dodging missiles and throwing missiles back, even with the highest class military ship all it takes is a couple missiles to become incapable of fighting. The kinetic feels pointless, in player vs player it is nothing but an annoyance. In player vs computer it is almost irrelevant.

Slower progression, It felt like I went from a low class ship to the opposite end of the spectrum in just a few hours. I had expected the IMG missions to introduce me to the galaxy, to show me who is out there? I expected to learn the differences of the Alliance, Vonari, Richton(?), Federation, Alliance(sol), but to my dissapointment it was simply doing the same contracts I could find on any station or planet, only in specific systems and station and increased dificulty.

Navigation, overall I was impressed with your navigation system, it is very effective. The only issue is it is hard to locate where the main trading city is on planets, maybe if the player right-clicks on the main trading city it will set the nav point directly above the city so less hunting is involved.

I enjoyed the game, but it got boring fast. I am excited to hear (read) that there is an expansion coming, I can't wait to try it!

~Heyub, C.S.

[Cargo]

Gravitational Pull and the ability to orbit would be cool.

[Marvin]

In any battle with more than five hostiles I find myself spending the greater part of the battle dodging missiles.

Get an auto-CM launcher. If you have problems dodging missiles, it's your best bet ... and ignore suggestions to the contrary.

Less kinetic, it adds nothing to the game for me.

That's too bad. Many pilots find it to be reliable and effective. Then again, it takes awhile to learn how to counter it.

I had expected the IMG missions to introduce me to the galaxy, to show me who is out there?

Try the Quest for Peace.

Navigation, overall I was impressed with your navigation system, it is very effective. The only issue is it is hard to locate where the main trading city is on planets, maybe if the player right-clicks on the main trading city it will set the nav point directly above the city so less hunting is involved.

That technique is guaranteed (almost) to get you killed. Continue to use the primary city markers [+], flying at less that warp speed, and you'll be much more likely to to dock, planetside, without first burning up in the atmosphere.

[Rubber Chicken]

1. The Auto-CM spams CMs until the incoming missile is dead. As long as you stay off of the afterburners, it's almost guarranteed. If you get into a large furball or a long multi - waypoint mission, you'll be out of CMs in no time. (Provided you don't refuel between waypoints)

The anti-missile system is effective provided you stay off of the afterburners, have a little weapons energy left, and have figured out how to use 1 CM per incoming missile. Wastes alot less CMs, but should really only be treated as an insurance policy.

Either way, running out of CM's is bad for your health. The anti-missile system can still help if you do run out though.

2. The trick to beat kinetic weapons fire is to simply have a longer range cannon, and stay out of the way.

Marv's pretty much right on with the other points.

[Heyub C.S.]

Many pilots find it to be reliable and effective.

Saw that one coming before it hit.

That technique is guaranteed (almost) to get you killed. Continue to use the primary city markers [+], flying at less that warp speed, and you'll be much more likely to to dock, planetside, without first burning up in the atmosphere.

I believe you misunderstand what I'm saying. I am suggesting that the player can right click primary city markers much similar to space stations. However, unlike the space stations, the marker would be directly above the city, so if the player were to be on the marker they would only have to turn toward the planet. Obviously the marker is not in the atmosphere, otherwise what you said would be true.

[Edited on 4-20-2012 by Heyub C.S.]

I looked up quest for peace, it appears to be a mod that can cause harm to player profile. I would rather see it be a part of the game and not some extraneous thing that I have to shuffle folders around to use.

[Edited on 4-20-2012 by Heyub C.S.]

[ijon]

Planets having orbits around stars, and Moons around their Planets. But would be challengeing to dock on a ever moving station orbiting on a planet.

this would be sweet. time as part of navigation.
or chasing the dock. hehe..

[Edited on 4-20-2012 by ijon]

[Letoras]

It be nice to have better collisions on gates, stations, ships

[Dalkeith]

I would second the calls to make death more consequential and make it harder to progress in things like mining. In eve people really take years to build up their assets and it's why I think the boring relative to Evochron Mercenary dogfights are still taken so seriously because losing has so much consequence in terms of assets.

All in though thanks for developing such a great game I am planning on getting the new version when it comes out.

[Edited on 4-28-2012 by Dalkeith]

[Laconis]

I am a quest junkie, can't help it. So I would like to see more backstory with contracts. Like a storyline for every system. You land on the primary planet for the system and a city leader or some person of note asks you to do something for them. I'm not talking about a quest as long as the IMG deal, but 5 to 10 steps that take you all over the system and might show you something or just give you an oppurtunity to trade between planets and stations for a profit.

The kind of thing I would like to see is you land on the primary planet of the system and a senator asks you to assasinate a rival and his escort and then travel to his home planet on the outskirts of the system. When you land these people ask you to carry some stuff to a secret trade station or a moon base to help supply the upcoming skirmishes between the two factions. At the destination a friend or supporter of the senator asks you to protect a capital ship heading sunward for the heart of the system and to go to another location for more stuff associated with this rivalry between a couple factions in some system hardly anyone thinks about or stops in.

These kinds of contracts could be offered right along with the generic kind but would give the player a feeling that the universe is alive and moving around them. That there are people with their own concerns moving across the universe or trying to make their mark on the planets they live on.

[Marvin]

Try the Quest for Peace (after you finish the default quest). If has many of those types of things.

[light487]

More manufacturing/corporation building options... get it to the point you can basically run a company/corporation or multiple companies on various worlds, with NPCs that you manage etc

Also would like to see some bars, nightclubs, meeting places, gardens, beaches.. that kinda thing. They don't need to be environments that you can walk around in as such.. just static environments with dynamic/animated scenery and things to click on rather than basic menus.. think of an old style 2D adventure game with point-and-click interface.. something like that..

It would be a big upgrade.. so maybe something for the next installment of the game?.. Like "Privateer" I guess but more generic/programatic so you're not wasting resources on making only a small number of locations but be able to have the computer generate the locations and stuff for every port and city location in the universe.

[someguy201]

1) I expect it's been said before, but larger cargo space (maybe just for specific ships). Instead of the max being 25 for each slot, maybe you could upgrade it with certain ships to be much higher?

2) To go with that, what about having Mining/Tractor beam C1/C2/C3 - the higher it is, longer range and speed of mining.

I would like to see general expansions to mining - not necessarily anything that requires vast NPC fleets and corporations, as that wouldn't really fit with the game I don't think - but just expansions to player mining to make it more worthwhile in later stages of the game.

3) Alter the prices of mining contracts - link the minimum price for the contract to be above what the ore is currently selling for. I'm relatively early on in the game, compared to others, but I'm able to sell Diamonds for 50k for 25 at some stations, and at the same time see a contract to mine 25 diamonds offering 30k.

[DaveK]

1) I expect it's been said before, but larger cargo space (maybe just for specific ships). Instead of the max being 25 for each slot, maybe you could upgrade it with certain ships to be much higher?

2) To go with that, what about having Mining/Tractor beam C1/C2/C3 - the higher it is, longer range and speed of mining.

I would like to see general expansions to mining - not necessarily anything that requires vast NPC fleets and corporations, as that wouldn't really fit with the game I don't think - but just expansions to player mining to make it more worthwhile in later stages of the game.

Is there any value in having a mining tug - slow, well armoured and able to tow a BIG container or container train - you might have to hire a defence squad to guard it when full



3) Alter the prices of mining contracts - link the minimum price for the contract to be above what the ore is currently selling for. I'm relatively early on in the game, compared to others, but I'm able to sell Diamonds for 50k for 25 at some stations, and at the same time see a contract to mine 25 diamonds offering 30k.

I agree with all of these! I emjoed mining at the start and would enjoy it again if it was moreinteresting and more profitable!

Perhaps as an addition have some materials that could only be found in deserted systems so ir would require time to get there and back to civilisation to sell. That would help justify the increase in mining capacity. Since at the moment there is always a station fairly close it isn't really an imposition to have to scoot off and sell every 125 units.

[Tritonio]

I am probably not going to play this game anymore until some of those are fixed cause they really piss me off:

1. The contract system is terrible in multiplayer. When I am doing military contracts to collect points to unlock the frames, I expect that someone leaving the sector will not hinder my process. Yet he manages to cancel my running, multi-waypoint contract. Also when I flew my civ ships and I was trying to raise the loyalty of the crew only to have it lowered by someone giving me a contract without noticing was equally annoying. This forces me to play away from other players which is against the whole point of playing online.

2. Getting top notch equipment was too easy. It took me about 3 days of moderate gameplay to get a starmaster with stealth generators and everything. Getting the military frames though is way too slow.

3. The anti missile systems are not worth the slot. The auto CM is too wasteful while the anti missile is totally unreliable. Half the rockets are going to hit you unless you keep them at a specific distance for some time, which in itself is way harder than pressing C with your finger. So currently no anti-missile system gives me the highest chance of survival.

4. Stealth and shield rechargers do cause some short of bug for me with the recharger using up my energy to give me back my shields after turning the generator on (and IIRC they even fail on giving the shield back).

5. Mining should be made actually profitable. I tried to make some money with it and though I was achieving something. Then I moved to Olympus and made 10 times faster money by fighting low level ships and occasionally collecting anti-matter from then, turning it into fuel converters and selling them for 1M+ each.

6. The chat window should be resizable and movable or at somehow must not interfere with my HUD. Doesn't anyone else have this problem??

7. Most people tell me that the Banshee (supposedly the top tier cannon) is the worst cannon in the game, and after trying the lower level ones I probably agree. Is there any use case for those high level weapons? Is anybody able to use a cannon with R=450? Maybe removing the "classes" and randomizing or equalizing their price tags should be enough?

8. Kinetic weapons should cause disorientation on the AI just as they do on players.

9. If the developer fixes 8 and he feels that the AI is then too easy to beat then simply increase its accuracy (I've heard that it doesn't actually have MDTS, why not?)

10. Like EVE, we need some way to keep formations around a leader and follow his Fulcrum jumps automatically. Currently you can't really make a proper intimidating entrance to a sector. Imagine 5 clan ships appearing around you at the same time.

[Vice]

Excellent post, thanks for the specifics/details. Some comments below:

1 - It was intentionally set up this way for several reasons (three main ones anyway). One was to avoid having to shard players into separate 'instances' away from the game's universe while contracts were going on. Another was to build risk into the equation so players would have to enforce the territories where they were playing to avoid others coming in to 'piggy-back' on their succes or to hinder their success by trying to interrupt their contracts. Lastly, it was set up this way to avoid adding another step to the rather complex learning curve for the game. Specifically, it was done to help noob's from having to take another step just to link in to a contract they wanted to be part of (so they wouldn't have to remember to do so or have to press required keys/activate certain console options). All they would have to worry about is showing up with their friends at the location they wanted to play in.

However, this is now something I am considering changing and may implement a required contract 'link in' step that would force players to manually join a contract before they would be linked to it. They would probably all have to be in the station together at the time it starts and there may be other restrictions/conditions that go along with it. I'd like to hear thoughts on this from the multiplayer regulars.

2 - Requiring 3 days of 'moderate gameplay' is too long for a lot of players, too short for others. It's kind of a subjective target and one that's variable as some players take several weeks to achieve that same goal with more gameplay involved while others (who use online guides/resources) take less time. I'll take this into consideration though.

3 - The anti-missile system's effectiveness is being increased. The strategy of giving it time to work by changing the closer rate of inbound missiles will still apply, but the device itself will be faster. Specifics may not yet be finalized, but the early estimate is that it may be about 200% faster, ie destroying missiles at twice the current rate.

4 - Shield rechargers should never be used with Stealth generators. They are intentionally designed to not be compatible with each other. You'll need to compromise on one or the other and keep the remaining equipment item in the cargo bay or in storage whenever you want to swap.

5 - Related to the previous post about this, mining contracts are getting a significant increase in value as are material values themselves (particularly in certain system specific markets and economic conditions). Mining should overall be more profitable. Part of my beta testing plan is to gauge the changes and adjust further as desired by testers.

6 - You can resize it to a smaller, less interfering mode with the right mouse click option (right click on the X button in the upper left corner of the message log). This restricts it to three lines, removes the control buttons for less obstruction, keeping everything in the upper left corner of the screen out of the way of most of the HUD. Then use the mouse wheel or key controls to scroll through the messages. Ideally, I would like to include an alternate placement option as well, where it could be rendered further to the left of the screen for players using widescreen modes with the screen space to use the option. Not sure on the feasibility of this yet as there are some inherent rendering limitations, but it is something I want to look into.

7 - The high level weapons, when driven by strong power cores and heatsinks/relays, can be effective against capital class ships at close range. A good strategy to use for these is to have one or two players with high power close range cannons be the attackers against the target ship while the other players with lighter cannon firepower provide fighter cover during the attack.

8 - This is exactly what's being done in the expansion. They'll bounce around like human players do.

9 - There are a lot of new changes and improvements being done to the AI and their weapon systems, including MDTS tracking and selective decision making/tactics.

10 - A couple of ideas for this kind of thing have involved a target painting system (that might simply report to you in the message log of a painted target's jump destination) and/or a formation system for friendly ships. Haven't dug into this too much yet, but it's something I plan to review at some point.

[Edited on 5-2-2012 by Vice]

[MiaZ]

I believe you misunderstand what I'm saying. I am suggesting that the player can right click primary city markers much similar to space stations. However, unlike the space stations, the marker would be directly above the city, so if the player were to be on the marker they would only have to turn toward the planet. Obviously the marker is not in the atmosphere, otherwise what you said would be true.

This would be good I agree.
It would be great for new players, although it is not absolutely necessary.
Remember you can could easily add a map log entry for the city in that same "easy for docking place", above the city but out of the atmosphere.


[Edited on 5-2-2012 by MiaZ]

[DaveK]

1 -

However, this is now something I am considering changing and may implement a required contract 'link in' step that would force players to manually join a contract before they would be linked to it. They would probably all have to be in the station together at the time it starts and there may be other restrictions/conditions that go along with it. I'd like to hear thoughts on this from the multiplayer regulars.

[Edited on 5-2-2012 by Vice]

In busy sessions I think having to be actually cruising around in the stations field might make it too crowded - too many collisions. Having to be docked would be too restrictive - I like to have a look around!

Would it be possible to have to be within a certain (short) distance of a station, like you have to be to use a station detonator? That way anyone interested could loiter nearby and a few could enter the station to choose a contract

Another positive would be that people would get consulted about possible missions and would actually know when they were contracted to one - at the moment there are times when I only realise that a mission has been chosen when everyone starts to jump away!

If you are recoding mission control anyway, would it be a good / popular / bad / unpopular move to stop pilots who are killed during a mission rejoining after they respawn - At present there only the contract chooser is effected by being destroyed. It would add a bit of tension:D

[Tritonio]

Thanks a lot for the fast and consize answer Vice. Some comments on your comments.

1 - It was intentionally set up this way for several reasons (three main ones anyway). One was to avoid having to shard players into separate 'instances' away from the game's universe while contracts were going on. Another was to build risk into the equation so players would have to enforce the territories where they were playing to avoid others coming in to 'piggy-back' on their succes or to hinder their success by trying to interrupt their contracts. Lastly, it was set up this way to avoid adding another step to the rather complex learning curve for the game. Specifically, it was done to help noob's from having to take another step just to link in to a contract they wanted to be part of (so they wouldn't have to remember to do so or have to press required keys/activate certain console options). All they would have to worry about is showing up with their friends at the location they wanted to play in.
[/quote]Regardless of the way of linking in you could always also require that they are in the same sector. Other than that to keep the learning curve short you could make it a game option NOT to accept contract automatically and if someone unticks it he should be notified in a way similar to a trade request and just press a key to accept the contract. This wouldn't help me from loosing some contracts but if your intention was to empower other to ruin other people's contracts then OK I'll pass as it is just another gameplay concept I'll have too use. (Maybe we'll need someway to see who joins our sector though? You know, to know whose butt to kick :-D )

3 - The anti-missile system's effectiveness is being increased. The strategy of giving it time to work by changing the closer rate of inbound missiles will still apply, but the device itself will be faster. Specifics may not yet be finalized, but the early estimate is that it may be about 200% faster, ie destroying missiles at twice the current rate.

This will be much better. Glad you are already taking care of it. :-)

6 - You can resize it to a smaller, less interfering mode with the right mouse click option (right click on the X button in the upper left corner of the message log). This restricts it to three lines, removes the control buttons for less obstruction, keeping everything in the upper left corner of the screen out of the way of most of the HUD. Then use the mouse wheel or key controls to scroll through the messages. Ideally, I would like to include an alternate placement option as well, where it could be rendered further to the left of the screen for players using widescreen modes with the screen space to use the option. Not sure on the feasibility of this yet as there are some inherent rendering limitations, but it is something I want to look into.

Hmmm didn't know about the reduced mode. I'll try it for a while andsee how it gets. I am also on widescreen (1366x768 AFAIK) and there is so much unused space on the left of the chat window. The alternative placement would be perfect.

10 - A couple of ideas for this kind of thing have involved a target painting system (that might simply report to you in the message log of a painted target's jump destination) and/or a formation system for friendly ships. Haven't dug into this too much yet, but it's something I plan to review at some point.

This would partially work for chasing enemies (although they would still get away by jumping randomly faster that you because you'll have to enter the coords and jump) but it's not exactly my point which was to be able to automatically follow friendlies along in big trips. Maybe you could enhance the Form mode to also follow others in jumps?

[Edited on 5-2-2012 by Vice]

[MiaZ]

Thanks a lot for the fast and consize answer Vice. Some comments on your comments.

1 - It was intentionally set up this way for several reasons (three main ones anyway). One was to avoid having to shard players into separate 'instances' away from the game's universe while contracts were going on. Another was to build risk into the equation so players would have to enforce the territories where they were playing to avoid others coming in to 'piggy-back' on their succes or to hinder their success by trying to interrupt their contracts. Lastly, it was set up this way to avoid adding another step to the rather complex learning curve for the game. Specifically, it was done to help noob's from having to take another step just to link in to a contract they wanted to be part of (so they wouldn't have to remember to do so or have to press required keys/activate certain console options). All they would have to worry about is showing up with their friends at the location they wanted to play in.
[/quote]Regardless of the way of linking in you could always also require that they are in the same sector. Other than that to keep the learning curve short you could make it a game option NOT to accept contract automatically and if someone unticks it he should be notified in a way similar to a trade request and just press a key to accept the contract. This wouldn't help me from loosing some contracts but if your intention was to empower other to ruin other people's contracts then OK I'll pass as it is just another gameplay concept I'll have too use. (Maybe we'll need someway to see who joins our sector though? You know, to know whose butt to kick :-D )

I don't know about this.
I Like the way it is already. Maybe the option to turn off auto accepting contracts would be ok.

Not sure Id like having everyone being forced to accept to join in.
Its nice and fast and easy to just be in the sector and know
whatever contracts are going, you'll be in on them.

As far as needing someway to see who joins 'our' sector though.

Maybe a notice when a player enters the sector but that could get messy.
There is always the tilde key : ) after having to watch my back because of "Romulan" its now a habit for me.
-


Mostly the failed contracts through people canceling them or joining and leaving the sector can be avoided easily enough unless you really need to be a a particular sector for the IMG quest.

Multi waypoint contracts may be a problem because people who join the sector after the first waypoint are included in the rest of the contract.
My guess is that also you are in the Talison warzone where new players starting as combat pilot will be placed.

I know this sector has easier missions then elsewhere in Talison Warzone but If you want to do multi waypoint contracts in peace this is the worst sector for it unfortunately.

Being in a sector with a gate can be problems with multi waypoint contracts also.

I have had it happen to me at times too, I know the feeling.
You probably wanted to be in the "easy" talison sector but
You should move to a sector away from new joining players.










[Edited on 5-2-2012 by MiaZ]