New Frames & Inventory Console Features

Brisos · Post by **Brisos** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:19 pm

My 2 cents:

1. More cargo bays and real freighters to pilot. Trading income should be more driven by player choice (more trade income should require a bigger, less combat oriented ship for example).
2. More trading resources.
3. Better balance between trading resources. The buy/sell prices of commodities vs. raw materials vs. "constructed" items are all over the place.

Other aspects of the game are really well done and fleshed out. Trade is where the game lacks the most, imo.

Post by **Vice** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:07 pm

1. More cargo bays and real freighters to pilot. Trading income should be more driven by player choice (more trade income should require a bigger, less combat oriented ship for example).

I am working on/planning change for the trade system, although not cargo capacity related, so I have a question on your point. How many more cargo bays would you like to see? As the game is now, you can do what you describe by making your ship less combat oriented for more equipment and weapon cargo space (all you technically need is a jump drive and for some, possibly a shield booster), leaving you with up to five to seven more equipment slots and up to ten weapon slots for trade runs in addition to the five generic cargo slots.

Also, the more items the player can carry, the fewer trade runs they have to make. Part of the intended 'value' of trade and items in the game is the limitation of how much a player can carry at a time. So this brings up the question as to how much you think a single trade run should pay for a cargo optimized ship?

3. Better balance between trading resources. The buy/sell prices of commodities vs. raw materials vs. "constructed" items are all over the place.

The pricing system is being worked on, although to expand the potential price ranges depending on demand and economies, rather than narrowing them down. For a subjective term like 'better', can you provide specifics? What is better to you may not be to someone else and without specifics, there isn't anything to work from in terms of achieving that goal for your request.

Nubarus · Post by **Nubarus** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:30 pm

I would like to see a cannon pack to replace the missile pack, what also would be nice is a dumbfire rocket pack to load up instead of missiles.

Kilgore · Post by **Kilgore** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:11 pm

nah i think 5 cargo bays are enough, i have 7 hardpoints (only 6 are used right now), 8 missile slots, and i still easily make 1 million credits on a mining run (using my shiny new platinum beam of course.. love this thing)

Post by **Marvin** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:19 pm

If you add cargo bays, the ships capable of carrying them should be very, very expensive ... such that any profit would require a long-term investment.

Raynor · Post by **Raynor** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:20 pm

Actually if anything i find that it's too easy to make lots of money. it isn't long before you don't really have anything to do with it. Of course that kinda happens soon enough in any game of this style. I have to say since i don't really do MP, i suppose this isn't a fair thing to mention since i guess in MP you will always have stations to build and such. Well actually that's also one thing. I can build a station for maybe about a million. Many times less (i think it depends where you build it?) but yet i might have to pay 14 millions for a stealth generator. It seems to me stations should be very very expensive. Not under 20 millions anyway. It doesnt make sense that they would be so cheap to build.

Post by **Marvin** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:22 pm

Stations should be expensive ... but, if such is the situation, it should take fewer stations to maintain a territory.

Brisos · Post by **Brisos** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:40 pm

From post: 133896, Topic: tid=9023, author=Vice wrote:
1. More cargo bays and real freighters to pilot. Trading income should be more driven by player choice (more trade income should require a bigger, less combat oriented ship for example).
I am working on/planning change for the trade system, although not cargo capacity related, so I have a question on your point. How many more cargo bays would you like to see? As the game is now, you can do what you describe by making your ship less combat oriented for more equipment and weapon cargo space (all you technically need is a jump drive and for some, possibly a shield booster), leaving you with up to five to seven more equipment slots and up to ten weapon slots for trade runs in addition to the five generic cargo slots.

Also, the more items the player can carry, the fewer trade runs they have to make. Part of the intended 'value' of trade and items in the game is the limitation of how much a player can carry at a time. So this brings up the question as to how much you think a single trade run should pay for a cargo optimized ship?

3. Better balance between trading resources. The buy/sell prices of commodities vs. raw materials vs. "constructed" items are all over the place.
The pricing system is being worked on, although to expand the potential price ranges depending on demand and economies, rather than narrowing them down. For a subjective term like 'better', can you provide specifics? What is better to you may not be to someone else and without specifics, there isn't anything to work from in terms of achieving that goal for your request.

Answer #2 first - hope it's not too lengthy.

The problem I had in my game was that within the first few hours, and being a complete noob, I had found 2 stacks of antimatter one or two systems away from Sapphire. Each stack cost me less than 5000 credits and allowed me to build two fuel converters that I sold for 700,000 each. At that moment I had trivialized all the effort I had put into going to (A) planets to buy cheap food, selling it to (E) stations (I figured they might have trouble growing carrots in space!). I think I did make a profit and felt proud of myself for using a supply/demand system intelligently. But said profit was in the few thousands of credits only.

I understand the need for progression. Some commodities or equipment will fetch a better price. But the gap is too huge. I should still have an incentive to trade in, say, machinery parts in the mid (maybe even late) game. If a Tech station has a shortage they should give me a good price for my goods.

As it stands now, and keeping my specific experience in mind, I had no interest in mining or trading anything but 4-5 equipment items after playing the game for less than 5 hours. That's really too bad because the "specialized" planet was a nice touch. It makes sense but the implementation does not work right now - I will never and never really did have an incentive to visit a specific planet. My best trading strategy is to fly around in stations buying Fuel converters, shield boosts, build/deployers or even the big badass torpedoes once you make a couple millions. Nothing else compares.

A specific fix for that could be to make some of the goods fetch a comparable price in a station with a high demand/shortage. I would like have my 20 million credits and still have an incentive to trade something other than Fulcrum torpedoes and fuel converters.

TLDR: the progression happens too quickly. Lower "tier" items (commodities) are trivialized very early on and never again become useful to a trader. That's the majority of the content of the trading aspect of your game that becomes useless within 5 hours of play time.

As for cargo bays/types of ship you do have that in kinda, true. But since you already have 2 (3?) ship types (2 lines of civilian and 1 military I think) I was sad not to see a freight type. Something bulkier, slightly bigger (does not have to be huge, not sure what limitations ship size can create).

In gameplay terms I'd like the ability to max out my ship's assembly with cargo bays. I understand I can use equipment slots for trading, and with the way the game is right now it doesn't matter since the best trade items are equipment items anyway. But if the trade of commodities ever gets some love then going beyond 5 cargo bays would be necessary.

Thanks for reading and replying! I am enjoying your game immensely.

[Edited on 4-1-2012 by Brisos]

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:04 pm

As far as stations go... The max for any system or 'area of control' in a system is generally 50 right? Perhaps a balance between how many clan-tagged stations and how many Indy stations can be built in each area. Out of the fifty, maybe the max for stations with a clan tag in the I.D. could be like 30 and Indy stations could be limited to 20.

Clan stations would still get full control over the percentages in a system and also the full benefits of slowing decay. Indy players would be able to build in systems that are currently under 'full lockdown' too.
It hopefully would reduce alot of clan vs. indy or indy vs.clan incidents. Especially when the indy is a noob and unaware of the whole 'clan thing' and ettiquette. I also might give indy pilots more of a reason to stick around if they have more freedom or more of a chance of expanding their interests into currently 'locked' systems.

Also when a station detonator warning comes into the chat screen, maybe showing the name of the station being attacked would be useful.

[Edited on 4-1-2012 by Rubber Chicken]

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:14 pm

Oh and I'd also like to see higher tech systems have at least a slight chance of carrying lower tech items. I happen to like lower class missiles for example. If PvP is on in Atlas, good luck finding Eschelon missiles there. I'm not really someone who likes doing the Self - D to get my loadout back after a match. Travelling to Sapphire to restock can be a pain.

Post by **DaveK** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:49 pm

From post: 133928, Topic: tid=9023, author=Raynor wrote:Actually if anything i find that it's too easy to make lots of money. it isn't long before you don't really have anything to do with it. Of course that kinda happens soon enough in any game of this style. I have to say since i don't really do MP, i suppose this isn't a fair thing to mention since i guess in MP you will always have stations to build and such. Well actually that's also one thing. I can build a station for maybe about a million. Many times less (i think it depends where you build it?) but yet i might have to pay 14 millions for a stealth generator. It seems to me stations should be very very expensive. Not under 20 millions anyway. It doesnt make sense that they would be so cheap to build.

It's costing me between 24 mill and 100 mill for trade stations, so maxing out clan space isn't cheap. When servers come and go, it can get very expensive - over a billion per system at the lower end. Break even time (taking into account the 101000 payback per cycle) is 69 non-stop days of playing!

I'm not sure if fuel costs are wealth related but I'm typically paying 250+ per unit

Station licences can typically cost 500 mill - 800 mill

Having said that, it's only because the costs are related to wealth and I spent a few weeks several months ago amassing a goodly fortune.

The issue of money-sinks arises periodically - it's a difficult balance to acheive between those who want to have to continue to work for a living

and those who want to have time to do other things without thinking about fuel costs and without having to clock on to the daily grind

Clan upkeep chores is sufficient therapeutic work for me

:D

EDIT: I tried offering private contracts (20-30 mill for 20 mins work) when I was looking at cannon performance:

one newbie didn't understand and said it wasnt worth breaking off mining
two experienced pilots did it for the interest and fun
one experienced pilot asked if I would find a stealth generator for his friend!

Is there any mileage in private contracts or having something in the programme that would allow us to pay for some contracts offered at the stations - off the top of my head: "Incoming is offering contracts for pilots to increase his reputation in this system - payment 50 million for an increase of one band in his reputation with the Energy faction plus all the contract fees and experience points you earn" The game would handle payments, deducting them from my stash, like when I hire a hangar

[Edited on 1-4-2012 by DaveK]

Post by **DaveK** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:05 pm

From post: 134216, Topic: tid=9023, author=Rubber Chicken wrote:As far as stations go... The max for any system or 'area of control' in a system is generally 50 right? Perhaps a balance between how many clan-tagged stations and how many Indy stations can be built in each area. Out of the fifty, maybe the max for stations with a clan tag in the I.D. could be like 30 and Indy stations could be limited to 20.

Clan stations would still get full control over the percentages in a system and also the full benefits of slowing decay. Indy players would be able to build in systems that are currently under 'full lockdown' too.
It hopefully would reduce alot of clan vs. indy or indy vs.clan incidents. Especially when the indy is a noob and unaware of the whole 'clan thing' and ettiquette. I also might give indy pilots more of a reason to stick around if they have more freedom or more of a chance of expanding their interests into currently 'locked' systems.

Also when a station detonator warning comes into the chat screen, maybe showing the name of the station being attacked would be useful.

[Edited on 4-1-2012 by Rubber Chicken]

Sounds like a good compromise solution for the "no room for Indies here" problem!

As to the warning - then someone might come along and stop me!

Post by **Vice** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:38 pm

The problem I had in my game was that within the first few hours, and being a complete noob, I had found 2 stacks of antimatter one or two systems away from Sapphire. Each stack cost me less than 5000 credits and allowed me to build two fuel converters that I sold for 700,000 each. At that moment I had trivialized all the effort I had put into going to (A) planets to buy cheap food, selling it to (E) stations (I figured they might have trouble growing carrots in space!). I think I did make a profit and felt proud of myself for using a supply/demand system intelligently. But said profit was in the few thousands of credits only.

That does indeed sound lopsided and is probably one of the consequences of introducing a new feature like crafting with certain pre-established pricing structures. Was it really only 5K for two full stacks of 25 antimatter units? Or was it perhaps 50K? If the former, please post or e-mail me with the purchase location and I'll look into the market structure for that region and see if something is out of range or work on changes if needed.

Increasing the buy-and-sell ranges for commodities and different economy types is planned.

I understand the need for progression. Some commodities or equipment will fetch a better price. But the gap is too huge. I should still have an incentive to trade in, say, machinery parts in the mid (maybe even late) game. If a Tech station has a shortage they should give me a good price for my goods.

At least you noticed the economy types

It's often a missed option in the game (in fact, a basic material like metal ore can jump 550% just on an economy type where it's in demand), but it seems to chronically be missed as an option. Very few seem to utilize the letters after the planet names. So one of the improvements might be a way to make this more obvious and accessible. A few solutions might be including details in a training stage or forcing descriptions upon arrival rather than having them be optional. Not sure yet, but it's one aspect of several with trading that does need to be addressed.

It appears that one of the (if not the) biggest obstacle to effective trade later on in the game is the imbalance between commodity variations and the high value equipment and weapon items. The default scale range was established to help give new players early access to trade options with low initial values and moderate rewards, but not devalue the effort by offering too high of a reward with high price variations. However, it's apparent (as you point out) that these structures need to be realigned to either increase the commodity price variations or decrease the high value variations, or both. So for example, you could have a 5K price variation for a commodity in demand, but then also only around a 5K variation for a 10-million credit weapon that's in demand. Where to set those options is a challenge as one direction inhibits new players and the other makes it too easy. The 'rate of wealth building' has to be balanced with the variation of prices and markets and this is a pretty subjective target because of differences in how much time some players are interested in spending on gameplay versus others for the same reward. Some players think it's too easy/fast, others too slow. But there are obviously some changes that need to be made and I'll be working on those. Other thoughts?

In gameplay terms I'd like the ability to max out my ship's assembly with cargo bays. I understand I can use equipment slots for trading, and with the way the game is right now it doesn't matter since the best trade items are equipment items anyway. But if the trade of commodities ever gets some love then going beyond 5 cargo bays would be necessary.

Again though, and especially considering the high values we're talking about here, increasing the cargo bay capacity will mean even higher reward for the same or less effort (simply because it will then require fewer trips to earn the same or higher level of credits). If cargo bays were limited to commodities only or I implement the variation limitations mentioned above, then it probably wouldn't be such a big deal. It could certainly be possible to allow the weapon slots to be switchable to cargo bays, but the gameplay ramifications would need to be considered.

[Edited on 4-1-2012 by Vice]

Raynor · Post by **Raynor** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:51 pm

From post: 134226, Topic: tid=9023, author=DaveK wrote:
From post: 133928, Topic: tid=9023, author=Raynor wrote:Actually if anything i find that it's too easy to make lots of money. it isn't long before you don't really have anything to do with it. Of course that kinda happens soon enough in any game of this style. I have to say since i don't really do MP, i suppose this isn't a fair thing to mention since i guess in MP you will always have stations to build and such. Well actually that's also one thing. I can build a station for maybe about a million. Many times less (i think it depends where you build it?) but yet i might have to pay 14 millions for a stealth generator. It seems to me stations should be very very expensive. Not under 20 millions anyway. It doesnt make sense that they would be so cheap to build.
It's costing me between 24 mill and 100 mill for trade stations, so maxing out clan space isn't cheap. When servers come and go, it can get very expensive - over a billion per system at the lower end. Break even time (taking into account the 101000 payback per cycle) is 69 non-stop days of playing!

I'm not sure if fuel costs are wealth related but I'm typically paying 250+ per unit

Station licences can typically cost 500 mill - 800 mill

Having said that, it's only because the costs are related to wealth and I spent a few weeks several months ago amassing a goodly fortune.

The issue of money-sinks arises periodically - it's a difficult balance to acheive between those who want to have to continue to work for a living and those who want to have time to do other things without thinking about fuel costs and without having to clock on to the daily grind Clan upkeep chores is sufficient therapeutic work for me :D

EDIT: I tried offering private contracts (20-30 mill for 20 mins work) when I was looking at cannon performance:

one newbie didn't understand and said it wasnt worth breaking off mining
two experienced pilots did it for the interest and fun
one experienced pilot asked if I would find a stealth generator for his friend!

When i first finished the IMG quest, i wrote a thread asking if it was possible to remove money from one's account because i thought 50 millions was too much and that it would allow me to max out my ship right away. In the end since there was no way to modify the amount the quest earned, i finished it and then wasted 45 millions buying and then revoking station licenses (in effect just subtracting the money from my account without having to use it for something useful. I thought keeping 5 millions was fair enough). People seemed to think i was a freak for not wanting the money:-p. It's just that i find that one of the most fun thing in games is to upgrade and customize (in fact i seldom love games that don't offer either) . I didn't want to reach the point where my money would just be useless too fast because i knew i would then lose some interest in the game. Once you're maxed out, what's left? MP if you're into it, I'm not. And sure enough, since i have bought everything i might ever need or want in the game, i've barely played. I haven't quit it and I'll be happy to start over from scratch when the expansion is released if nothing else but my interest has diminished.

My point is, if the game had 500 different component to buy for your ship, and and it took 200 hours to get all of them. I'd probably love it even more. So my true point is, nobody should be listening to anything i have to say about this. :p

[Edited on 4-1-2012 by Raynor]

Grim · Post by **Grim** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:17 am

captial ships

Not flying them as such, more like moving bases. So U would tell it to move from point A to B, u could dock with it and come along for the ride. Launch Your fighter to provide fighter assistance when your capital ship comes under attack.

Nubarus · Post by **Nubarus** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:31 am

From post: 134249, Topic: tid=9023, author=Grim wrote:captial ships
Not flying them as such, more like moving bases. So U would tell it to move from point A to B, u could dock with it and come along for the ride. Launch Your fighter to provide fighter assistance when your capital ship comes under attack.

I would like to see something like that too, but then down sized so it can hold minimal of 2 ships (1 civil and 2 militairy) in it's hangar and quarters for your crew so you don't have to sack em if you want to swap ships like we have to do now.

ijon · Post by **ijon** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:05 am

maybe its more the feeling of time rather than capacity. or maybe ore should be cheaper and raw goods lead to a better margin? depleting asteroid fields? recovering over a pretty long period of time?
higher rewards for missions.
i read that part with the 550%, (not all other 32 pages) - it still appears like peanuts if i can make several hundred k as a beginner just undocking.

atm i don't see why to trade or grab any of these offered jobs. am barely playing though and just left sapphire for the merc quest.
mining with basic gear is a 1/4 mio per run easiely. one can buy a cargo bay 5 right away?
basically i'm sitting in that one station i n the middle of an staeroid field, dock, undock and sell.
why should i run x kilometers and take all the risk for a few thousand credits?

i need a reason to leave that cosy pocket. an economic stimulus. (i will because i'm curious) but atm i see a hull i like and mine for it.
it should not be possible to run through half the upgrade options around the starter system that easy.

if there would be something after platinum, that mining would all make sense. (actually i don't know how much money can be made trading and producing).
but i allready know, platinum is the 'mineral end'. metal only in sapphire would be a solution too. the further out one gets, the more rewarding things become.
slowly recovering asteroid fields, forcing you to reorganize infrastructure, i can imagine very interesting. it would add some conflict potential for the multiplayer too i can imagine.

[Edited on 4-2-2012 by ijon]

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:24 pm

Let's be honest, mining is so unbalanced that trade system and job system 's mechanics are broken .
One way to balance that would be making mining much less profitable and introducing a crafting system very soon at the beginning in Sapphire . One incentive to grab a contract would be awarding the player with money and craft materials. The more difficult the contract is, the more craft materials he will get. With these craft materials, he could craft and sell high value goods more valuable than any raw materials (diamonds and platinum) in the market.

ijon · Post by **ijon** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:07 pm

i'd sign that. reward effort.

Twilly Frost · Post by **Twilly Frost** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:09 pm

Brainstorming here...

Perhaps there could be more powerful missiles that could only be crafted by minable materials. Mining these agents could have the same implications as building stations or doing contracts as it relates to clan control %. Maybe ballistic weapons that fire minable munitions as well. It would introduce a new trade commodity and really spice up the power struggles between clans. After all, most wars are fought for control of resources. This could tie into the walker aspect as well, searching for minable traces on planet surfaces.

Just a thought.

ct6crazycanuck · Post by **ct6crazycanuck** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:31 pm

I don't know if this has already suggested, but a home base of sorts where you can at least store your crew and one other ship, my reasoning for this is the fact that you lose your crew moving from a civilian craft to a military craft since they don't have any room for crew, besides it would be kind of neat having an actual home base as opposed to just using trade stations.

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:19 pm

Having maybe just one player-built trade station designated as home base, where you can store without paying a fee, would be cool ... yeah.

Tarl · Post by **Tarl** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:29 am

I have nothing specific to add (at this time : ), but just wanted to say that I see some awesome suggestions here.

And, it looks as if Vice is already got some work in progress for some of the issues raised (and is asking for input).

The economy issue is a big deal since if it is too easy, then the game is too easy (well, yeah, there is the fighting part that my brain is still attempting to deal with). If the game is too easy, then why play? That said, there is another thread where several people helped someone with a mid-game "what to do" crisis, so there is a LOT that can be done in game.

Personally, and it is only my very subjective opinion, the ideas I've seen on the last couple of pages would add more to the game that any type of graphical or shininess overhauls/additions.

As an example, I know that Vice is working hard on the "walker" part of the game. It would be nice if somehow the "walker" part of the game also dealt with some of the economy issues raised in this thread. So, as an example, the walkers somehow add an economic dimension to the game (say, high risk mining on the surface because the asteroid fields have become infested with pirates (in a random manner)). My apologies if that has already been discussed by Vice.

Another area that adds an extreme amount of content and re-playability are mods. As an example, the Elder Scrolls games or the X games. I know that Evochron also has the ability to mod (I haven't had the time to look into them), but any way to enhance Evo's modding ability means that the players can add lots of "content" while allowing Vice the time to put together enhanced features. Or, something like that. It's possible that that ability is already in this game. I've seen a few mods mentioned, but there don't seem to be a lot (in the manner of Elder Scrolls, etc.).

All that said, the game design just may not allow for that high level of mod-ability. Again, beyond my knowledge, for sure.

Anyway, all good stuff. What is currently in the game will keep me occupied for a long time (I can't play anywhere near the amount I'd like to at this time). So, I look forward to what ever Vice comes up with in the future. He's done great so far. No complaints.

thanks,

Tarl

Nigel_Strange · Post by **Nigel_Strange** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:40 am

What would I like to see?

1. More "realistic" starmaps. I want to see stars on the maps and the planetary orbits. Instead of a grid-based map that shows one sector at a time, I would like to see something smoother and more natural. Zooming in and out should not be a question of sector resolution, but a smooth pan, maybe using an exponentially accelerated pan speed. Instead of everything being square, want to see more round shaps, since space is full of them: planets and stars represented as circles, following elliptical orbits. When you are looking at the range of your fulcrum drive, it should be represented by a sphere (or circle in each plane). You should still be able to right-click on stations etc. to jump straight to them, and you should still be able to type xyz coordinates to jump straight to that point. When in a system, I want to see something more like this:

2. More realistic physics. Mainly, I would like to see the engine type affect acceleration, not top speed, and the size of the ship (and cargo) to affect inertia. For example, a fully-laden Starmaster would take longer to get to 1000m/s than an empty Starmaster. You might consider each "unit" of any cargo to be a ton, or some unit of mass that can be added to your craft. The effect of this would be that the more cargo you are carrying, the harder it will be to dogfight, so you will need to be careful on your cargo runs. You will also be encouraged to get the most expensive (and fuel-costly) engines in order to maximize what acceleration you can manage.

3. Bigger planets and stars. The planets need to feel big. I am still a little disheartened by the illusion of the city fading in when you get close to it. It seems that the city should always be there, always visible, a speck on the planet's surface, only the planet should be big enough to make the city tiny by comparison. Going along with the number one desire: if you are not limited to sector size in the same way, the planets can be much larger. A star might be several "sectors" large in the space, but the vast distances between stars and planets will prevent them from being swallowed up...just like in real space.

4. More realistic atmospheric flight. The fighter craft have wings for a reason. They should provide lift or at control surfaces in atmospheric flight. Keeping the nose up on re-entry should be necessary to prevent burning up in the atmosphere. Also, because of the size of the planets, the atmosphere will be thicker and take more time to get through. To avoid burning up, you can't just go straight down to the city, you would need to enter the atmosphere and slow down, using the atmosphere to burn some of the speed (as long as you have good heat shields). You might see some glow or shaking or shuddering, and it might be useful to have a temperature gauge on board to let you know how close you are to turning into bacon. Re-entry will become a skill that must be developed, and entering into atmospheres will not be something to be taken for granted. Once your airspeed is slow enough to avoid burning, you should be able to fly like a plane, i.e. the stick moves the control surfaces and causes you to bank. The transition between "space" controls and "atmosphere" controls should be transparent and seemless, as entering or leaving the atmosphere will cause the computer to switch control mechanics for you. Of course, you would need to be aware of your max weight (cargo) and flying in atmo with 125 tons of stuff might be a real challenge to keep that bird in the air. If your engines are not up to snuff, you might not be able to survive.

So, it might make the game harder, but I think of it as adding to the challenge, and it would require more thinking and planning on the player's part to avoid catastrophes, such as burning up. Novices will learn how to safely enter and exit the atmosphere only after some dedicated practice. Experts should be able to get in and out with relative ease.

I think carrying cargo or passenges from one destination to another makes a good mission. However, I don't like the way the money is constantly counting down. If I am in a taxi, the fairbox counts UP, not DOWN, and I certainly don't expect to get to my desination for free if it's so far away that the driver can't get me there within 5 minutes. I would probably put a set price and a set time from the outset. The player must be able to judge whether the time is feasible or not. There might be an added bonus for getting to the destination early, but the standard faire should be enough to pay for the fuel and compensate for the time. When entering an atmosphere is a delicate business, taking your time might save lives, so paying someone to be reckless is not useful.

Urisk · Post by **Urisk** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:42 am

Well, since I only just joined it might sime unappropriate to post in this thread, but still: I just found this game (for reference for what I was looking for / expecting see http://www.starwraith.com/forum/viewtop ... #pid134273 ) and though it does not fill 100% of what I was looking for ... after merely two hours of play I dare to say it's the closes any game in this genre got to that point in a very (!) long time (and after all: since everyone is looking for something slightly different from others 100% will never be reached ... I realize that

), which is why I immediately bought it on steam and am looking forward to future developments of this too ... even though of course I did not even start scratching the the surface layer of paint on the present game.

So, even though I'm new to it I'll dive into the two points that, in my first impression, were off from what I was hoping for. (Even though I again would like to stress that, looking at the rest, these points might as well be classified as "Oh, never mind that, considering how awesome the overall experience is.")

Basically the points have been addressed by the poster before me:

From post: 134315, Topic: tid=9023, author=Nigel_Strange wrote:What would I like to see?

1. More "realistic" starmaps. I want to see stars on the maps and the planetary orbits.

(...)

3. Bigger planets and stars. The planets need to feel big. I am still a little disheartened by the illusion of the city fading in when you get close to it. It seems that the city should always be there, always visible, a speck on the planet's surface, only the planet should be big enough to make the city tiny by comparison.
(...)

@1: I would really like to see steller bodies as well as installations move on realistic orbits. (planets around suns and stations around planets) Looking at the present game I guess this is not something that could be patched in or added with and addon ... so this would be a suggestion for a future game.

@3: Indeed, when I first entered the atmosphere of the planet in the atmosphere, i was somewhat irritated by the scale of the city compared to the planet.

closing words: As said before: These points don't really hurt the experience for me and I'm really looking forward to staying here (aka: with this game and on these boards) for a long time.