Firstly my thanks to those kind people who volunteered to be targets!
The tests are in three sections:
how fast various weapons and combinations use up energy (ie how long can you shoot for)
a preliminary set of tests with an Icespear/Fusion combo to get the feel for the data
a comprehensive test with three combo's (including a C2, C8 and C14 particle cannon paired with a (C5) Fusion beam
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All of the tests used a Class 5 Fusion beam weapon. A Class 2 Icespear, Class 8 Maxim-R and Class 14 Phantom particle cannon were tested as the second part of the combo's. All timings were repeated until a consistent result was achieved.
Part 1: Energy Use Efficiency
The first data table shows how quickly (or not!) the weapons depleted the energy reserves.
Cannon timings to use up energy in seconds
All tests used Class 5 Fusion Beam. Ship equipped with Cannon Heatsink and Cannon Relay
Shield/Weapon energy distribution was changed between tests (-5/+5 - 0/0 - +5/-5)
1. infinite means that the weapon energy recharge was faster than the weapon energy usage
2. >900 extrapolated from the time required for the weapon energy reading to drop to 90%. It is infinite in practice!
3. slows signifies that the energy dropped to around 10% in the time shown, after which the weapon firing rate slowed but only by a small amount
Conclusions:
• at an energy balance setting of 0/0 or better for weapons, beam weapons don't "run out" - they recharge faster than they use the energy (The Fusion is the highest class beam weapon)
• at an energy balance setting of 0/0 or better for weapons the Icespear and Maxim-R effectively don't delete the energy reserve; the slowing of the firing rate at the end is quite small.
• at an energy balance setting of -5/+5 the Phantom effectively doesn't delete the energy reserve; the slowing of the firing rate after 75 seconds is quite small.
• using the combo deletes the energy reserve very significantly faster than the results for the particle cannon alone would predict. The effect of changing the energy balance is much less for the combo than for the particle cannon than might be expected.
• The combo would have to be far more effective than the particle cannon alone to compensate for its rapid energy depletion rate
Part 2: Kill Efficiency
Series 1: Thanks to Marvin who patiently sat there for the first series of tests and got blown up multiple times and confirmed many of the timings
Cannon timings to kill in seconds
Avenger target used "0/0" shield/weapon energy balance with Class 10 shield and
x5 Shield Booster - Class 3 Repair System
Attacker: C2 Icespear/C5 Fusion combo; Cannon Heatsink and Cannon Relay
There was a few second delay before the shield's barchart in the target view and the hull integrity reading started to fall. Both dropped together in all cases
Conclusions:
• beam weapons don't damage shields exclusively - they also damage hulls at the same time
• beam weapons take a very long time to achieve a kill relative to particle cannon or the combo
• the combo kills significantly faster than the particle cannon alone - 30% to 50% faster. However you need to look at the energy efficiency results and decide whether the faster kill for the combo compensates for the much more rapid energy usage.
• range makes a small difference to particle cannon but not to beam or the combo
To check for repeatability and to test the effect of different particle cannon a second series of tests was lanned.
  Series 2: Thanks to Faemon who patiently sat there for the second series of tests and got blown up multiple times without complaint!
Cannon timings to kill in seconds
Starmaster target used "0/0" shield/weapon energy balance with Class 10 shield and a x5 shield booster- Class 3 Repair System
Attacker: C2 Icespear or C8 Maxim-R or C14 Phantom/C5 Fusion combo; Cannon Heatsink and Cannon Relay
1. no kill means that either no damage to shields or hull was observed or that the repair system repaired the shield/hull damage faster than the weapon inflicted damage and the shields indicated some damage that was repaired and then more damage that was repaired and so on
2. combo timings in red mean that the weapons depleted the energy reserve a few seconds before the kill but continued firing at the slower rate; this might not be clear on your monitor so it's the results for the Maxim and Phantom used in combo with the Fusion!
Conclusions:
• the frame makes a difference; Using a C5 Fusion beam weapon alone, the Avenger (Armour 270) went down in 60 secs, but the Starmaster (Armour 300) hasn't been touched;
• there is no difference in how quickly the particle cannon alone and the combo can take down the Starmaster
• range appears to make no significant difference to either the particle cannon or the combo
• It is very surprising that the Icespear is the quickest to take down the Starmaster either alone or in the combo given it's lower yield. The effectiveness appears to be related to the cycle rate (120 for the Icespear, 100 for the Maxim and 90 for the Phantom)
Overall Conclusion:
When the new extension module is released there will be a weapon tuning system available. In the meantime there are a number of factors to consider and balance. You may or may not agree with the following points - that's all part of the fun of the game!
• a beam weapon by itself is not worth using - it is slow to kill or is unable to kill at all (at least if your opponent has a C3 Repair Unit installed
• a beam weapons doesn't just kill shields - it takes down the hull at the same time
• all three particle cannon won't run out of energy as long as the weapon/shield balance is equal (0/0) or favours weapons.
• The combo uses energy far more rapidly than you would expect from the rate of use of the canons used separately; However the combo does take down an opponent more quickly. If are not facing a large number of hostiles and can take down an opponent before you use up the energy reserve then a combo is effective - however you risk having to wait for the recharge.
• Using the combo means that with MDTS active you will get beam hits all the time. However, beam weapons aren't very effective. Using the particle weapon along will let you fire longer, but not all your shots will hit. Whether you use a combo or just the particle cannon will depend on you proficiency and combat styles, as well as the number of opponents and whether they are AI or real
When I started this bit of research I was fairly convinced by experience that beams were not "shield killers". I thought that when firing the combo most of the energy drain was due to the particle cannon. I suspected that there would be a clear cut conclusion that you dump the beam and save all the energy for the particle cannon, which would have taken some of the fun away from the game because weapon choice would be much simpler
Instead I find that a beam alone is a waste of time, that particle alone can give unlimited fire time even with high class cannon and that a combo, though energy use intensive, is more destructive - there is still lots of choices to be made!!
Finally - these tests were carried out between two stationary ships - combat is a whole different ball game, but at least now you have some hard data rather than just hearsay to base you decisions on!
Callsign: Incoming
Life is like a sewer... what you get out of it depends on what you put into it. - Bob Newhart
Hell is being in a pure platinum asteroid field... with a diamond mining beam
Thank you! - In RL I'm an experimental scientist by training and by nature, though now retired, so this is great fun!
I'm not from any planet! - I'm from Deep Space Research Station Copernicus - though I usually use an alias when exploring and gathering data (DS2! :P:P)
Callsign: Incoming
Life is like a sewer... what you get out of it depends on what you put into it. - Bob Newhart
Hell is being in a pure platinum asteroid field... with a diamond mining beam
It would be fairer to contrast it with a Chim though
Callsign: Incoming
Life is like a sewer... what you get out of it depends on what you put into it. - Bob Newhart
Hell is being in a pure platinum asteroid field... with a diamond mining beam
Great read and very informative. I used the Banshee exclusively for the last week and just today switched to maxim. Maxim beats it hands down. The energy drain from the banshee was just too much, except vs the big ships. Banshee kills the crap outta big ships. I always use linked and I can hold down the mouse button within range and pop a whole ship before it runs out of energy.
Wait, the best particle weapon is a class 2 icespear!?!?!?
And actually wouldn't i do better with a starguard since it has a better yield but the same cycle rate?
If i understand this chart properly it means that the higher the class of your weapon, the worst it actually is (if in fact cycle rate is more important than yield)
It is very surprising that the Icespear is the quickest to take down the Starmaster either alone or in the combo given it's lower yield. The effectiveness appears to be related to the cycle rate (120 for the Icespear, 100 for the Maxim and 90 for the Phantom)
Not surprising for me as the Icespear gets a equal or greater range than the Maxim-R or the Phantom associated with a better cycle rate.
Edit: wait a second it's suprising that a Icespear alone is quicker to take down a Starmaster with a better armor than an Avenger !
From post: 133086, Topic: tid=9085, author=Raynor wrote:Wait, the best particle weapon is a class 2 icespear!?!?!?
And actually wouldn't i do better with a starguard since it has a better yield but the same cycle rate?
If i understand this chart properly it means that the higher the class of your weapon, the worst it actually is (if in fact cycle rate is more important than yield)
I changed from a phantom to a maxim-R and then to an Icespear because I kept getting killed before I could get a kill in. With the Icespear my kill:die ratio rocketed.
I've stuck with icespear ever since. My motive (apart from sheer fun doing it) for this test was to see if a beam weapon was so useless it could be ditched totally - I tried the myth - "shoot the shields down with a beam and switch to particle to finish them off" and never managed to get the shields even partly down - I'm not good but not that bad!!
Callsign: Incoming
Life is like a sewer... what you get out of it depends on what you put into it. - Bob Newhart
Hell is being in a pure platinum asteroid field... with a diamond mining beam
I'n curious how the Flarebeam / Fusion combo would fare.
I used the maxim-m and then the icespear and finally the flarebeam. It's impossible to say what weapon works best all of the time because it changes by the situation.
I know that Starmaster can take a beating though. When I switch from my Evoch-E to the SM it's always surprising just how much punishment I can take.
From post: 133105, Topic: tid=9085, author=Twilly Frost wrote:I'n curious how the Flarebeam / Fusion combo would fare.
If you're willing to be the target I'll do the timings
Callsign: Incoming
Life is like a sewer... what you get out of it depends on what you put into it. - Bob Newhart
Hell is being in a pure platinum asteroid field... with a diamond mining beam
From post: 133071, Topic: tid=9085, author=Marvin wrote: Interesting. I'm expecting an "I told you so" from Denny, as concerns his Starmaster.
LOL!..... I told you so... a flying brick... sturdy as a brick!
It would be interesting to see how tests go with my Chimera....hmmm... the heaviest mil frame.
I'll shot a try at the IceSpear... but I guess my Maxim-R it's the top pick for me, I can effectively take down up to mid range civvi frames in the first pass so it's a good mix.
From post: 133086, Topic: tid=9085, author=Raynor wrote:Wait, the best particle weapon is a class 2 icespear!?!?!? So it would seem
And actually wouldn't i do better with a starguard since it has a better yield but the same cycle rate? Starguard range is only 570 compared to the Icespear's 700 which is why the Icespear is more popular I suspect
If i understand this chart properly it means that the higher the class of your weapon, the worst it actually is (if in fact cycle rate is more important than yield) So it would seem
In RL the performance is programmed in by Vice not determined by real technology that has real physical limits so it's unexpected but not impossible that some of the info doesn't fit. After all there is no way we can actually check the yield of any of them!
Callsign: Incoming
Life is like a sewer... what you get out of it depends on what you put into it. - Bob Newhart
Hell is being in a pure platinum asteroid field... with a diamond mining beam
From post: 133127, Topic: tid=9085, author=Marvin wrote: I used the Ice for awhile until attempting to up my military rank. Evidently, Vonari ships are made of different stuff.
I've used the Icespear against Vonari and found it more successful (for me) than a Maxim-R because I don't run out of energy
Callsign: Incoming
Life is like a sewer... what you get out of it depends on what you put into it. - Bob Newhart
Hell is being in a pure platinum asteroid field... with a diamond mining beam
From post: 133145, Topic: tid=9085, author=DennyMala wrote:
It would be interesting to see how tests go with my Chimera....hmmm... the heaviest mil frame.
If you have time to be the target I'll do the tests!
Callsign: Incoming
Life is like a sewer... what you get out of it depends on what you put into it. - Bob Newhart
Hell is being in a pure platinum asteroid field... with a diamond mining beam
From post: 133155, Topic: tid=9085, author=DaveK wrote:
From post: 133145, Topic: tid=9085, author=DennyMala wrote:
It would be interesting to see how tests go with my Chimera....hmmm... the heaviest mil frame.
If you have time to be the target I'll do the tests!
Let me know if you catch me online and we'll see if I can sit there and get blown.
:P:P)
Interesting. I'm expecting an "I told you so" from Denny, as concerns his Starmaster.
!
