Design Feedback Poll - Transferring from ship to terrain walker...

[Vice]

Please vote and/or comment for the option you would prefer.

I have some mixed feedback on option #3 as many players have indicated they would not use walkers at all if it required them to leave their ship vulnerable to attack/theft. So the city option would would be one way to address that concern, but it would come with the stated limitations. So cloaking/burying the ship is one possibility. Another consideration is that the walker will be a functional extension, much like the gun turret mode. So saving while in the walker won't be available and the player will be required to return to their ship before they can access the various ships functions/options. It would mean that if their ship was destroyed or stolen, they would have to self-destruct and the issue of ship duplication would need to be addressed (one for the ship that was stolen and one for the player that respawns in the ship at their last save point, resulting in an exploit). So I'd like to gather some feedback on what directions you'd like to see this option go.

[-Tristan-]

I think there is merit for some variation of option 3, for immersion purposes, but realistically- I would probably never enter a walker for fear of losing my ship. And I rather like the idea of being able to land ANYWHERE on ANY planet and hop in the ol' 4x4 walker and go muddin.

Now, there could definitely be some primitive tribes we would have to fight off after they discovered our ship to get back in it(if you were to arm the walker!)

[BLEVE]

Option 1 sounds the best by a long way. I don't think I would use the walker with option 3 as well.

[Rubber Chicken]

Being the sandbox, eploration aspect of this game IMO option one would be best. Also prehaps ability to save while in the walker and if you are destroyed you respawn at the savepiont, but if you leave the game and come back , you will respawn in your ship at the ship's last location.

I don't think landing at 'cities only' would be enough to keep explorers interested, and the questions about 'what about the unpopulated planets?' would soon arise. Finding ancient ruins on an otherwise dead planet and finding secret areas with items would really make it worth it for explorers.

The ship destruction/stealing would be more O.K. I think if this game was designed and billed to be straight out hardcore competitive gaming. With the much loved sandbox format of the game, there are already players who spend much time flying into the great unkown for very long sessions. It would kinda stink to spend a few hours on a plantet and then find your ship has been stolen or destroyed. Besides having to 'walk' somewhere you could purcahse another ship would link it to 'city only landing'. If you don't have enough money to purchase even a Talon frame to get you off of the planet would you have to take out credit or get one for free? That would kind of force there to be a need for a 'Game Over' message at some point. Perhaps someone else can see another way to bust the exploit, but it's what I've thought of so far.

[Marvin]

In option 3, what happens if your ship is destroyed? As a turret gunner, when the pilot's ship is destroyed (or you save the game), you end up back inside your own ship. As does the pilot. You lose nothing, really. So, if I were to go with option 3, I'd like it where, if either me (in the walker) or my ship (parked somewhere) were destroyed, it would simply put me back inside my ship. At wherever I had it parked.

For option 1, cloaking the ship makes sense. But if somebody can't set his own waypoint ... well, I think s/he should pay the price. Except, what would be the price? Self-destruction? Why not? It doesn't sound any worse than what happens if you attempt to fly through a black hole. Or land on Earth. Saving before entering a walker just makes Evo-sense.

[Rubber Chicken]

For option 1 perhaps the walker could have a secondary compass to indicate to direction back to your ship? The main compass would still function as normal. The secondary compass could possibly function as a red marker that moves separately from from the rest of the compass and preserves the heading to take to get back to your ship.

[Edited on 2-23-2012 by Rubber Chicken]

[soulsacrifice]

How about option 3 but with an option to switch to remote control of your ship if any hostile ships are detected nearby on your ships nav computer? You wouldn't be unable to leave the current sector until you had reunited with your Mech.

This way even if you're on the other side of a planet you could use and defend your ship if there was a nearby threat.

[Edited on 24-2-2012 by soulsacrifice]

[Marvin]

A similar option exists in a different space game. But it only allows you to recall your ship to your current location. Not fly it to wherever.

[soulsacrifice]

A similar option exists in a different space game. But it only allows you to recall your ship to your current location. Not fly it to wherever.

That's the idea of limiting to a sector, so you can't just fly off leaving yourself stranded on a planet forever!

You could limit fulcram jumping or even being able to look around (moving remote cameras are expensive!).

[SeeJay]

I voted 1, but stealing another ship would be great fun.

The problem si how to get back to a ship.
If there isn't any city on that planet, you must be picked up by someone!?!?!

Maybe you could call for a rescue? (Including AI ship that could rescue you);)

[Munshine]

I voted 1. The idea behind this new feature by using a walker would be to explore lands on solid planets with or without cities and/or search for artefacts at any place difficult to access by ship . You just land wherever you can then walk .

with option 3, it would be difficult to swallow the lost of your ship . Reloading some save is faster than waiting for a rescue and trying to recover your ship if it's eventually stolen .

[Nova_Solo]

I voted for option 3. I did this because this is the universe, and the universe is not friendly. Perhaps if a ship gets destroyed while you're away, then it's game over; reload last save. If it gets stolen, then a "ransom" must be paid to have it returned.

In acuality, I should have chosen option 4, with a blend of both option 1 and 3.

The ship is visable from player point of view, and as player walks away a blue blip will appear on radar to mark where your ship is. This would allow every planet (except gas giants) to be explorable. Perhaps it can be coded that the ship is treated as a deployable construct that references on the specific ship frame the player is currently using while the walker is out exploring, thus allowing it to remain "indestructable." And when the walker gets within say 50-100 meters, then the option to re-enter the spacecraft appears. I don't think saving the game while in the walker should be an option at this time. I base this on 2 reasons. First, it would make it much easier on codeing. "K.I.S.S." it for now. Secondly, I'm not sure if the walkers are water-proof or Jesus and can walk on water. It would not sit well with me if I decided to "explore" the deep blue sea and find myself stuck to the bottom in a poly-pit, or in a poly-pit on land somewhere. If I "accidentally"save my game in that state, then I am doomed to either start a new pilot, or hound Vice on a way to reset my location back to 0,0,0.

Perhaps for some added flavor, the use of a walker can be an installable ship's equipment component, with varying degrees of uberness similar to the fulcram drive, shield booster, and repair module components. This way a walker's statistics can be based on the type of mission or wallet size the player wishes to display.

Best regards and keep up the outstanding work!

[Marvin]

I meant you should save before leaving the ship and entering a walker. Same as you would save before jumping thru a black hole.

[niksar]

I like the idea of 3 personally.

Maybe add some sort of armour/shielding equipment slot item which cover the spaceship while in the walker (think the Batmobile in Tim Burton's Batman movies) which makes them extremely difficult to destroy/steal.

[ausraider]

Option 3 seems to me the best route.

In multi-player, if a turret is occupied, the occupier could defend the ship, but if the ship gets blown up,
so does the turret operator - and has to log back in from a previous saved game.
I dont think players would be too precious about requiring a saved game state respective of a online turret/pilot pair-up.
They could simply agree to save their profiles separately at a locality in the Evochron Universe - before one switches to the other ship - if they even have to do that.

Also, if the game design is such that once the ship is at a certain level of destruction, life support would fail so the turret-op would die, then the attackers could transfer a repair device to the damaged ship, and then steal it! - might make for some interesting gameplay- MP rounds.

Another way I thought of handling the walker destruct - ship destruct - ship cloak thing would be this.

Player sets a detonator self-destruct device on the ship to ON.
The walker has a transmitter that transmits a signal to the device.
If the walker gets destroyed - the transmitter no longer functions and BOOM! goes the ship in 10-15 secs after the signal stops transmitting.
However, the player/pilot has the option of turning off the self-destruct device from the walker -So no boom boom, even if the walker gets it,
although this would need to be max of say one hour or suitable time frame - before it automatically comes back on -
requiring a reset if a bunch of MP lunatics is doing the Pole to Pole walker marathon - top prize 10,000,000cr.
Sectors sometimes run these things when business is slow...
Though they can attract alot of pirates because of the many unoccupied ships

Reguarding option 1 -
It actually just seems too unrealistic or bad-game-play to me to have a virtually indestructible ship when out in a walker.
I like the Securoshield idea, though it should be penetrable/reduceable by some highpowered weapons or devices.

I also wonder about an instantaneous teleport device back to the ship, leaving walker behind, if the ship comes under attack.
Then if the player survives the attack he can go back and collect the walker if its still in one piece, from a distress beacon.
Or he can set the walker to self-destruct incase its ye ole' Multi-player Pirate 1-2....
Pirate 1 hides behind a mountain.
Pirate 2 attacks the ship and when the pilot teleports out of the walker,
Pirate 1 comes out from behind the mountain and grabs the walker!
Then both high-tail it outta there with possibly a Max-Ranked Walker.



Ausraider.



[Edited on 2-24-2012 by ausraider]

[Busch]

Voted for cloak/bury/marker option. Strategic planning, tactical thinking here. Secure rally/laager point ? And a green blippage on the scanners/HUD ?
Mebe so. Lends a new spin to real estate values. Co-ops'll be a real blast !

[Alaric]

I only play single player so I may be missing the proper experience for this but I think that if you could just drive it outta the ship wherever it would be more "realistic", mebbe a docking ramp drops and the walker jumps out or something. AS for the ship getting blowed up while Im gallivanting across the planet would again be realistic. To counter this why not add a couple more crew member types?

Pilot: Keeps the ship runnig while yer out n about, he will bring it to you when your ready and whatnot. If yer ship's attacked while your gone, depending on his skill, he can simply try to run away, or to you to pick u up or even fight the battle.

Gunner: Runs the guns while yer gone in conjunction with the pilot while you explore.

Commando: Disguises your ship if you wanna park it on the ground.

Im sure you get what Im saying. Im completely ignorant of how hard this would be to do, but you DID ask for feedback

[Raynor]

Option 1.

Option 3 is a total no for me. That would definitely get me to not use the walker.

Question: Will the walker be able to have a crew? Say you have a crew on your ship, can it be transferred to the walker? If it can't, at least make it that the crew stays on ship and that you don't lose it.... It's already annoying enough you have to lose your crew when you store a ship and want to use it (for this reason alone i have never used this feature, nor plan to ever do)

I have the best possible option: The ships are "more than meets the eye" and can transform into a walker! this wsy you never have to leave the ship behind! Ok yeah that's kinda complicated considering you can actually design your own ship... Hmm.... it just got me thinking though, designing your own walker would be neat.....

[Edited on 2-25-2012 by Raynor]

[Tarl]

I voted for the land at city and enter walker there.

However, I feel that I can't really make a realistic vote since I don't understand the programing complications behind this new function.

So, here is what I would attempt to do (as if I could actually code : )
1. Assume that the "walker" enhancement would be a series of releases. Each building upon the other. Start with the simplest first (okay, that's probably a "no duh" moment : ).

2. Assume start (version 1) with landing in city and entering walker at that point.
Reasons:
a. Ship will be safe (may need to create parking fees : )
b. You can get "contracts" before you take off. This could expand later to quests, hubs for war parties to gather, etc. This function is already sorta built into the main cities.
c. You can rent walkers from the city port or purchase them. They are "grade c" walkers. Umm, you can make an entire game just around grades of walkers, but I guess that's a given : )

3. Next step, allow landing at "non-main" cities.
a. Less safe.
b. But cheaper rental fees.
c. Possibly closer to higher quality resources (so, the old more risk more gain).
d. Option to allow a buddy to park along side which will lower your risk to same as main city.
e. Option to have special crew members (ummm, mercs? : ) that will guard your ship for a fee. These are only for surface protection as only that route of attack is allowed.
f. Attack from space/air not allowed (city won't allow it).
g. Need grade B walkers. Harder and more expensive to acquire/craft.

4. Next step, allow landing on suitable surfaces of suitable planets.
a. Least safe.
b. Obviously, need to make it the largest possible gain (best minerals? Or, highest paying quest reward?
c. Again, buddies/crew members can come along and protect everyone's ship(s).
d. Attack can come from air or space(not sure how that would happen).
e. Need grade A walkers. That technology is only aquireable from a small planet on the other end of the quadrants (or, something similar : ). So, long trade routes, hazardous negotiations, possible reputation building, possible certain quests need to be finished, etc, etc.

5. Final step (well, almost : ), building outposts.
a. Very attack-able, but lots of options to protect (costs a lot, though).
b. Able to realize much wealth due to deep mining, productions, etc.
c. With sufficient AI, could be done in single player. Definitely a multi-player component.
d. Building outposts may be a actual "new" capability on top of the walker enhancement.

6. Final step, walking talking avatars : )

Hey, no reason not to dream : )

Note that since I'm unaware of the programing issues, it may be simpler to go at it the other direction. I'm pretty lost in that area. More than likely, there is a particular "entry point" and series of steps that make sense from both a programing and a "story" point of view.

Whatever you come up with, Vice, I'm sure we'll have fun.

Thanks,

Tarl

[Edited on 2-25-2012 by Tarl]

[Professor Paul1290]

I actually would like option 3 as long as we had the option of landing at cities where the ship would be safe.

[Munshine]

I 've noticed that many people who voted option 3 want realism. When we dock to a station or land at cities, we know that our ship is not safe especially in hostile systems but we can evade any threat at any time because we control the ship.

In Walker, we don't especially if we are too far away to climb in the ship and scramble. My point is there must be some incentive to use the Walker. If you get the stick everytime because it's realistic that your ship will be destroyed or stolen when you aren't here, you squeeze all the fun of this feature. And I assure you that noone will bother to use this .

Even if this feature was only for most advanced players who can deploy some shield array around the ship , that would be too restrictive and unfair for beginners who enjoy exploring.

Don't be mistaken I like realism but this is a game and there should be some compromise between arcade and realism to keep it fun.

[Edited on 2-25-2012 by Munshine]

[Edited on 2-25-2012 by Munshine]

[soulsacrifice]

In Walker, we don't especially if we are too far away to climb in the ship and scramble. My point is there must be some incentive to use the Walker. If you get the stick everytime because it's realistic that your ship will be destroyed or stolen when you aren't here, you squeeze all the fun of this feature. And I assure you that noone will bother to use this.

Clearly some people want this possibility?

You're effectively limiting option 3 based on how you think it would work, and then saying it wouldn't work.

There are ways to balance it so your ship isn't totally defenseless, for example:
- Ability to switch to remote control I sugestted above (similar to how pilots of AH-1Z Viper pilots today can fly and control unmanned littlebirds to target without putting themselves in the firing line).
- Have automatted air defenses like the 360 degree turret that can be used in co-op but AI controlled when you leave your ship.
- Alerts when hostile ships come within target range of your parked ship.
- Use of fuel to power the ships shields to 4-5 times their current levels (after all you're not ussing your engines so fuel could be diverted to over-power shields - which along with target alerts above would give you plenty of time to return and defend your ship.
- Ability to have a crew member to fly the ship to you mech as someone listed above.

If your ship gets stolen there could be an option to call for a nearby friendly ship and hire the ship to use it to try and retrieve your ship - maybe give the player ten minutes or so of the ability to track stolens ship coordinates and if they get away you can fly the hired ship to the nearest station to buy a new one.

The reason I chose option 3 isn't because of realism but rather all the different scenarios I can think of which I think will add to the game a whole lot.

Option 1 does seem currently to be most popular though, and if that's the way it is when the expansion is released then fair enough, i'll still have fun with the Mechs.

To be honest, i'd be really happy if all three options were available, obviously not initially because I imagine Vice has a lot more to do and very little free time but eventually in future updates, then everyone would get what they want.

[Rubber Chicken]

I think for simplicity and just getting the new aspect of the game implemented option 1 would be best. After more players are able to see and experiment with the new features, we would be better able to articulate on changes that would be desirable.

I do agree somewhat with there being vulnerability, but then the issue of hostile AI entering the atmosphere and attacking would come up. Having to deal with players is one thing, but the sometimes endless zombie march of AI once your location is pinpointed IMO would get frustating for those who want to enjoy using walkers but not nessecarily be specialists at it.

Perhaps maybe there could be a 'remote extraction' function? The ship would uncloak and autopilot to your walker's location and pick you up? If you use that option then the ship becomes vulerable when it uncloaks and flies to you. Traveling 'on foot' back to your ship would be safest, but the pick-up option would reduce an hour or so of walking back to five or so minutes for the ship to fire up and fly to you, provided of course the ship survives the journey. Also pilots could shadow your ship until it reaches your walker and attempt to destroy your walker and your ship.

Also if ships do become vulnerable and are destroyed the chat log message should reflect that you were not in your ship at the time. Ex. "Player X - ship destroyed" as opposed to "Player X was destroyed" for when you are destroyed in ship.

[Maarschalk]

I voted for option 1. But I like the Idea of being vunerable as well when leaving your ship unattended #3
Maybe the cloaking or burying device to hide your ship should be an Equipment option you could buy as part of the walker expansion to activate the cloacking and or burying remotely. So that if you do not have the remote activation equipment installed on your walker your ship will be vunerable to destruction and theft.
Now the solution to the problem of duplication in case of theft could be that in case of theft you can not go back to a previous save and are subject to a rescue effort by a rescue vessel or other player after activation of a distress call or distress beacon. Now in Multiplayer the player who stole the ship could sell or use the ship or trade it and fly back to his/her original ship on a planet and make a choice to keep the current ship and destroy or scuttle his original ship or vice versa!......

[Raynor]

There are ways to balance it so your ship isn't totally defenseless, for example:
- Ability to switch to remote control I sugestted above (similar to how pilots of AH-1Z Viper pilots today can fly and control unmanned littlebirds to target without putting themselves in the firing line).
- Have automatted air defenses like the 360 degree turret that can be used in co-op but AI controlled when you leave your ship.
- Alerts when hostile ships come within target range of your parked ship.
- Use of fuel to power the ships shields to 4-5 times their current levels (after all you're not ussing your engines so fuel could be diverted to over-power shields - which along with target alerts above would give you plenty of time to return and defend your ship.
- Ability to have a crew member to fly the ship to you mech as someone listed above.

If your ship gets stolen there could be an option to call for a nearby friendly ship and hire the ship to use it to try and retrieve your ship - maybe give the player ten minutes or so of the ability to track stolens ship coordinates and if they get away you can fly the hired ship to the nearest station to buy a new one.

Well basically then, option 3 implies that vice will have loads of work to do on implementing a ton of complementary features just for the walker. It doesn't seem worth it.

Maarschalk's idea of making a cloaking/burying device an equipment to buy is interesting but what will then happen is soon enough everybody will have that equipment and then it will be back to option 1 anyway so I say....just make it option 1.