New Frames & Inventory Console Features

Kyle_Gates · Post by **Kyle_Gates** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:27 am

--More dynamic â€œencountersâ€�. These really donâ€™t even have to be encounters really but a more dynamic feel to the world. Say Iâ€™m minding my own business mining and asteroid when I get a distress call. The call is from a nearby (not sectors away) ship in trouble. Under attack, depleted supplies, low on fuel etc. I can go in and help if I choose. Maybe itâ€™s a friendly ship under attack by Vonari. Or even more interesting maybe itâ€™s a neutral or even unfriendly ship under attack by rebels or someone. If I help my relationship improves with that faction and maybe I get a reward from the captain (oh..and when I arrive, if it is a battleâ€¦..lets have the enemy ship actually attacking the craft that sent out the call! And maybe that ship is actually firing back!). I realize having â€œout-of-sectorâ€� encounters may be a little more difficult but if its in the same sector as the player the engine should be capable of this.

--More information on Trade conditions. Say a news feed that shows trade values in your current sector and perhaps trade values in nearby sectors (maybe the sectors directly connected by jump gates).

--A better map! Really, the map, needs help. Badly. A few online maps help some but the in-game map should be able to show more than it does. Other sectors, full jump gate mapping, etc. (And perhaps a setting in the Auto Pilot that allows the ship to utilize jump gates when set to a far away locale?). A full map zoom would be cool too to see other parts of the map other than where the player is (I notice right click kinda does itâ€¦but only sometimes).

--More varied missions. Been too several different sectors now but it seems the mission types are very very similar. Only 5-7 different types of missions so far that I can find.

In the end, the game is already pretty damn sweet. The only trouble being it feels quite empty overall with little happening beyond the few missions that you can take. It would be cool to see skirmishes breaking out without any input from the player. The best games out there make you feel like your input matters little in the overall schemeâ€¦like the world exists without you. In Evo it seems like the world barely exists even with me lol.

Letoras · Post by **Letoras** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:30 pm

I think it would be useful on more panel where you can have the ship and an arrow indicator which is the sum up of the ships speeds (vertical, horizontal, forward, backward). So we can have a visual of the direction the ship goes.
Separate indicators (as it is now) is very useful but sometimes seeing the whole movement helps, especially people who are not familiar with this kind of flight.
A ship looking forward and an arrow rotating in, x,y,z and getting bigger as the speed goes up....would it be useful to u?

TJJ · Post by **TJJ** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:57 pm

From post: 129087, Topic: tid=8608, author=Letoras wrote:I think it would be useful on more panel where you can have the ship and an arrow indicator which is the sum up of the ships speeds (vertical, horizontal, forward, backward). So we can have a visual of the direction the ship goes.
Separate indicators (as it is now) is very useful but sometimes seeing the whole movement helps, especially people who are not familiar with this kind of flight.
A ship looking forward and an arrow rotating in, x,y,z and getting bigger as the speed goes up....would it be useful to u?

Agreed, I occasionally wish there was a speed scalar in addition to the velocity vector.

Infact, I wonder if it'd make more sense for the main throttle display to show the speed scalar; as per Elite 2.

At the moment the throttle display shows the speed of the ship along it's current facing; information I find to be rarely of use.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:03 pm

From post: 129087, Topic: tid=8608, author=Letoras wrote:I think it would be useful on more panel where you can have the ship and an arrow indicator which is the sum up of the ships speeds (vertical, horizontal, forward, backward). So we can have a visual of the direction the ship goes.
Separate indicators (as it is now) is very useful but sometimes seeing the whole movement helps, especially people who are not familiar with this kind of flight.
A ship looking forward and an arrow rotating in, x,y,z and getting bigger as the speed goes up....would it be useful to u?

I'm not sure about this one. Your Nav Map already shows your ship with a green Arrow head and will show you the direction you are pointing in and will show your movement and in which direction but is only obivious at high speeds. Also this would be difficult to do because you have to show Vectors also for up and down movement. remmember you are moving in 3D Space...So it could look like your standing still in the nav map in top view while your actualy moving up or down at highspeed allong the Galactic Y-Axis.....

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:27 pm

From post: 129072, Topic: tid=8608, author=Kyle_Gates wrote:--A better map! Really, the map, needs help. Badly. A few online maps help some but the in-game map should be able to show more than it does. Other sectors, full jump gate mapping, etc. (And perhaps a setting in the Auto Pilot that allows the ship to utilize jump gates when set to a far away locale?). A full map zoom would be cool too to see other parts of the map other than where the player is (I notice right click kinda does itâ€¦but only sometimes).

You need to spend some time learning how to use the map. And how to mod it (vets like it the way it is ... mostly because they've spent time learning how to use it). Once again I suggest downloading Atollski's Nav Map mod ... you can even set it up to get you through an entire series of jumpgates in a manner similar to using autopilot. As for right-clicking, the problem is new pilots often don't understand the workings of a 3D map. Which is this: it's a 3D map. Instructions for its use can be found on this forum and at SeeJay's excellent website.

Letoras · Post by **Letoras** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:33 pm

From post: 129100, Topic: tid=8608, author=Maarschalk wrote:
From post: 129087, Topic: tid=8608, author=Letoras wrote:I think it would be useful on more panel where you can have the ship and an arrow indicator which is the sum up of the ships speeds (vertical, horizontal, forward, backward). So we can have a visual of the direction the ship goes.
Separate indicators (as it is now) is very useful but sometimes seeing the whole movement helps, especially people who are not familiar with this kind of flight.
A ship looking forward and an arrow rotating in, x,y,z and getting bigger as the speed goes up....would it be useful to u?
I'm not sure about this one. Your Nav Map already shows your ship with a green Arrow head and will show you the direction you are pointing in and will show your movement and in which direction but is only obivious at high speeds. Also this would be difficult to do because you have to show Vectors also for up and down movement. remmember you are moving in 3D Space...So it could look like your standing still in the nav map in top view while your actualy moving up or down at highspeed allong the Galactic Y-Axis.....

I am not talking about a window but a panel in the cockpit where you can have a sum up visual indicator of the ships direction movement.

TJJ · Post by **TJJ** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:05 pm

From post: 129110, Topic: tid=8608, author=Marvin wrote:
From post: 129072, Topic: tid=8608, author=Kyle_Gates wrote:--A better map! Really, the map, needs help. Badly. A few online maps help some but the in-game map should be able to show more than it does. Other sectors, full jump gate mapping, etc. (And perhaps a setting in the Auto Pilot that allows the ship to utilize jump gates when set to a far away locale?). A full map zoom would be cool too to see other parts of the map other than where the player is (I notice right click kinda does itâ€¦but only sometimes).
You need to spend some time learning how to use the map. And how to mod it (vets like it the way it is ... mostly because they've spent time learning how to use it). Once again I suggest downloading Atollski's Nav Map mod ... you can even set it up to get you through an entire series of jumpgates in a manner similar to using autopilot. As for right-clicking, the problem is new pilots often don't understand the workings of a 3D map. Which is this: it's a 3D map. Instructions for its use can be found on this forum and at SeeJay's excellent website.

I don't think "you need to learn how to use it" is particularly constructive.

Just imagine popping up the nav screen and having something as wonderful and intuitive to navigate as the homeworld 2 map.

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:39 pm

I think that screenshot makes my point. One picture is worth 1,000 words.

TJJ · Post by **TJJ** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:49 pm

From post: 129195, Topic: tid=8608, author=Marvin wrote: I think that screenshot makes my point. One picture is worth 1,000 words.

?! Homeworld's 3D map screen was a triumph of UI design?

:edit:

I'm assuming you've played one of the Homeworld series.

[Edited on 2-5-2012 by TJJ]

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:52 pm

From post: 129201, Topic: tid=8608, author=TJJ wrote:I'm assuming you've played one of the Homeworld series.

Why would I want to play Homeworld? And get stuck using that map? (Btw, how do you set an accurate waypoint using a map like that?)

TJJ · Post by **TJJ** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:42 pm

From post: 129203, Topic: tid=8608, author=Marvin wrote:
From post: 129201, Topic: tid=8608, author=TJJ wrote:I'm assuming you've played one of the Homeworld series.
Why would I want to play Homeworld? And get stuck using that map? (Btw, how do you set an accurate waypoint using a map like that?)

With a map like that - easy; you provide optional coordinate entry exactly as EM does.

If you have not used said map, how can you critique it's usability?!

A basic summary of it's workings would be:

- Camera's focal point is always on a point of interest (PoI).
- mouse wheel zooms into/away from PoI
- alt-click (or mouse3) changes the focal point.
- mouse2 unlocks camera rotation axes, allowing rotation of camera around focal point using mouse dx/dy.
- For dropping waypoints, mouse cursor position is projected onto the XZ plane
- pressing shift locks position on XZ plane, and changes cursor projection onto XY plane - allowing vertical positioning.

It's a genius system that has been replicated to a lesser or greater extent in lots of other games; SOTS & Sins of a Solar Empire being two of the most recent.

Ask yourself one question:
Why is ~99% of Evochron's universe locked to within one sector of the XZ plane?
I'm sure there are lots of answers; high among them I'd put the navigation screen's clunky handling of the Y axis & presentation of the map data.

Letoras · Post by **Letoras** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:59 am

the homeworld map is amazing like lots other things
in the game. it is strange that the evochron universe has a flat feeling...

as a second option of the direction of the ship instead of an indicator maybe engine trails could help the pilots have a visual sense of the ships flight direction.

[Edited on 6-2-2012 by Letoras]

Kyle_Gates · Post by **Kyle_Gates** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:36 am

One thing everyone needs to take into account though is the limitations of the engine. This is a one man show and as such the game may or may not be capable of such elaborate map (and other) changes.

jase74 · Post by **jase74** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:01 am

Hi Vice,

this is a great experience you have built here. You dedication is amazing in that you are doing something you obviously love.

I had a whole heap of ideas, but believe they fall out of the framework you have built. My main ones still stand and anything that makes your universe more alive, or immersive is going to make me want to explore more, regardless of the randomness of it.

- Categories of minerals (Impact mining and trading):
Common, Uncommon, Rare, Super Rare, Unique. Super Rare and Unique would be much harder to find/mine therefore worth much more and attract more attention from my next point.

- Unique Factions that play a more general role over multiple systems. Ie Pirates, bounty hunters.
Pirates would be attracted to players who are running overly generous trade routes, mining expeditions. They would demand you jettison your cargo, then attack if you didnt. The multiple systems point would mean you may be tracked down by bounty hunters hired by those guys you pissed off.

- Module Failure that would effect your jump drive, your weapons, any kind of tech. Wear and tear value that degrades components over use. Failure rates for modules based at say .01 percent that multiplies by wear and tear. My ridiculous bank account could use some more costs to keep me on my toes.

- Radiant ai type system. Miners mine, capitol ships dock and drop off / pick up supplies. This means we can track targets over multiple systems. Same for anyone tracking us. Tech that allows us to see jumpgate use/ and or detects gravitational abnormalities that come from use of fulcrum technology. We could track a target over 6 systems as they get a whiff they are being followed. Culminating in a final showdown when you warp in on their position, mass block their jump drive aka elite and force them into submission.

- Comms that indicate docking activities, demands to jettison cargo, random pirate attacks on other vessels including yourself. Distress signals you can send for fuel, pirate attack etc.

- Descriptions. Weapons, modules, ships, systems, worlds. Just some info that will make places a bit more unique. I want to know why something works the way it does. Leading to multiple versions of similar technology that would help breathe some more diversity.

- Love the walker idea, but I would be more inclined to having your ship become magically invincible than for it to vanish. I want to walk around it and check it out up close. I want to see other ships all parked around a star base with transports running between them etc.

- More fancy lights for my cockpit.

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:34 am

From post: 129208, Topic: tid=8608, author=TJJ wrote:If you have not used said map, how can you critique it's usability?!

I've used 3D maps in other games. And I'd support its use here, too ... right after you post your 3D map versions of Atollski's and MapMan's excellent navigation mods. Remember, they are mods ... created by contributing members of the Evo-community. So we couldn't expect Vice to convert them, now could we?

Dingo · Post by **Dingo** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:36 am

practically speaking, I dont think a 3-d is really necessary since almost everything is between +/- 2 on the sy plane.

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:42 am

That would be the default universe. In any case, it's the quadrant map that would benefit from 3D ... assuming the mods were converted.

Dingo · Post by **Dingo** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:45 am

From post: 129248, Topic: tid=8608, author=Marvin wrote: That would be the default universe. In any case, it's the quadrant map that would benefit from 3D ... assuming the mods were converted.

well, clearly for total conversion mods a 3-d map would indeed be a boon. But I don't think anyone has made one yet.

BÃ¦nlynn · Post by **BÃ¦nlynn** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:31 am

Would like to see MDTS rejiggered a little. At the moment dodging fire is a very fine business and you can generally only do it once per pass, after which changing the straffe vector doesn't seem to have much effect.

Some font changes would also be nice. something completely opaque with a single pixel width with a high-contrast border/effect that won't be washed out by bright lights. Also could the max character level per message be taken up to something HIGHER than a tweet?

Letoras · Post by **Letoras** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:45 am

From post: 129216, Topic: tid=8608, author=Kyle_Gates wrote:One thing everyone needs to take into account though is the limitations of the engine. This is a one man show and as such the game may or may not be capable of such elaborate map (and other) changes.

Of course everybody has to be aware of that, you are correct. There is no person who play the game and do not respect that.

Deli · Post by **Deli** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:15 am

after coming from Freelancer multiplayer to Evochron Merc MP it's a bit of a jarring experience. MP lacks the variety that other space sims offer, especially trading.

What i'd like to see:
Bank account ~ ability to drop credits into a clan or individual bank from a chat command (ie: /bank deposit X - /bank withdraw X). making it possible to setup a named/passworded bank account for yourself or your clan and transfer credits between players, profiles and new clan members easily.

Also, adding this feature would step up the piracy side of the game, find a trader in a slow ship, offer him the choice, transfer X credits to you, or be blown out of the sky.
while this can be done now, it involves sitting around in space and trading, which takes up time and most traders prefer to run, but if they had the option to pay, it's likely they would to save their cargo and time/effort.

Post by **DaveK** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:09 pm

[rrquote=129088&tid=8608&author=TJJ

At the moment the throttle display shows the speed of the ship along it's current facing; information I find to be rarely of use.[/rrquote]

I use that all the time in combat to check whether I am moving back into the fight or drifting away!

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:15 pm

Like players have mentioned before this Game is created by one man. With that in mind I would add that more complicated and extensive Game play options, the playable balance can get easily disrupted as lot of players are discovering with all the mods out there.

1. Even the most current updated average Computer System will have some problems running all the best mods at the highest graphics settings.
2. The Game becomes more time consuming for one man to maintain and troubleshoot if problems arise!
3. The more complicated the Game the more you open up the possibilities of cheats and exploits that will make the game to easy or ruin the fun for others!

Yes, we all can always love and wish for more. Lets keep reality in mind though what ever relatively speaking that is!.......

:P

Letoras · Post by **Letoras** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:04 pm

...and that's how this thread ends,

:D

I'd like to see Laika in the game, for the explorers to find, and the golden disk..

[Edited on 6-2-2012 by Letoras]

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:01 pm

From post: 129261, Topic: tid=8608, author=Deli wrote:Also, adding this feature would step up the piracy side of the game, find a trader in a slow ship, offer him the choice, transfer X credits to you, or be blown out of the sky.

IIRC, it was one of the Reavers who did this for awhile. But it only resulted in new players not going back to MP. Nonetheless ... if you'd care to volunteer, I'm pretty sure one or more Reavers (or maybe Cindy) would be happy to waylay you and demand a ransom.