"PARKING"

49rTbird · Post by **49rTbird** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:05 pm

I have parked but it seems that it is getting to be a pain so I will say lets not park! This will go for all [UE] Clan members.

Ravenfeeder · Post by **Ravenfeeder** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:40 pm

Parking for a legitimate reason; toilet, getting a drink, answering phone etc... fair enough. Parking as a game advantage, especially in the middle of a contract, definitely no. Perhaps a time limit on parking, say 15 minutes????

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:44 pm

LOL.....Need a parking meter builder.........

:P:P:P:P:P:P

Accountant · Post by **Accountant** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:04 pm

I am not a big fan of arbitrary time limits. For now, is it enough to take the situation on a case-by-case basis and kick players that appear to be holding up contracts, provided that effort has been made to contact them? I find it hard to believe that we have so many pilots online at any time that we need to resort to such drastic measures as time limits for lingering in one place. I am mentioning this because, again, I do this often for various reasons. I would not mind being kicked if I was interfering with the other players' ability to enter contracts, but being kicked for being stationary for too long would quickly become tiring.

-Accountant

shilo · Post by **shilo** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:13 am

Why not put a time limit on contracts?

A. If said contract is not fulfilled within 30 minutes it gets canceled and your rank drops.
B. If you take a contract and have not moved for 5 minutes or more it is canceled.

As for parking 20 minutes tops no activity server auto kicks you. End of problem.

And that would count for simple forward momentum. So if you simply coast with no mouse movement boom your a goner.

[Edited on 1-23-2011 by shilo]

Accountant · Post by **Accountant** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:44 am

A. If said contract is not fulfilled within 30 minutes it gets canceled and your rank drops.

Rank drop? That's quite a penalty for no activity...

As for parking 20 minutes tops no activity server auto kicks you. End of problem.

And that would count for simple forward momentum. So if you simply coast with no mouse movement boom your a goner.

I actually have a problem with this. I will sometimes set a course from one planet to another within the same system and just coast. The journey can easily take 20 minutes or more. I would hate to be dropped from the server because some arbitrary timer thought I was "parking". This potential situation regarding parking is actually the one I am least worried about. If someone is parking by supercruising, they are not interfering with contracts and will not be in anyone's way.

I am unsure why this has become so critical. The only problem that has occurred to date is someone who held up 1 sector because of an open contract. Do we need to set rigid time limits and "parking" rules because of isolated incidents? I don't want this to become an equivalent of killing a fly with a sledge hammer...

-Accountant

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:27 am

I do my parking up by the Vonari border ... no contracts available up there except via a few trade stations built by IM. I'd hate to think I could be booted from one of our own stations ... but, so be it. I think the problem today took place in the Talison WZ. Instead of investigating, I moved over to Cerulean with SeeJay and Nuba ... never even thought about what was causing the "contract in progress" message. But, just as a few of us were logging off, somebody else started complaining about the same problem. Hmmmmm.

TGS · Post by **TGS** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:53 am

Bah haven't been around cause my latest IP switch has put me in that deadzone that Vice know's about where I can't access the site. So I'm now accessing via a proxy system.

Anyway as I suggested before there could be "limits" imposed that don't necessarily kick people off/out of the game however provide players the option to "deal" with people who sit there doing nothing for whatever reason. That is just it as well, it doesn't really matter what the reasoning is for someone to be parking/idling whatever. It should NOT affect anything in the game or other players if they choose to do that. If they are choosing to park and it has an effect on other players or the persistent game universe the option needs to be available for players to deal with that person with extreme force if necessary.

I'll recap. No "kickoff" or limit to idling. However if you wish to idle indefinitely say cause you've gone afk but don't wanna log out/log back in go to a planet or station and enter the hangar. If you are in the hangar it should count you as essentially not "existant" in the game universe. I'd even be partial to it hiding your location on the player list (I never did like the fact that the sector you are in is always displayed to everyone) Now the limits I was referring to primarily involve you sitting inside a station shield if you sit there for 5-10 minutes without doing anything (IE purchasing something, selling something or entering hangar) it will simply tractor push you outside the field. That way if there are hostile npc's they will kill you. If a player see's you as a contract leech or that you are just there to keep territory going they are free to kill you.

This would largely stop the problem as I see it without having an overly detrimental effect on either party as the "rules" would be very clearly defined. Now I'm aware that players can already deal with it to some extent because there really aren't many places that a player can be completely safe from another player but if someone is leeching contract's I wouldn't have to wangle my way in to kill them.

Another way to deal with one aspect of this problem IE the contract leeching would be to put out "accept/decline" buttons whenever a quest is initated for everyone but the person that initated it. That way if the person was afk they wouldn't accept it (Within say 30 seconds) and the option would simply disappear and they wouldn't be given the contract therefore wouldn't benefit from other peoples work.

Atollski · Post by **Atollski** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:16 pm

I think the whole problem could be solved by letting the server administrator decide the decay rates for when clans are on/offline. If the host wishes to discourage parking, they will simply set the decay rate the same for clans either offline or online.

Hopefully people don't deliberately park with intent to stop people completing missions in an area and that's just an unlucky by-product of them being there for area control?

49rTbird · Post by **49rTbird** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:40 pm

From TGS's Post:
"I'll recap. No "kickoff" or limit to idling. However if you wish to idle indefinitely say cause you've gone afk but don't wanna log out/log back in go to a planet or station and enter the hangar. If you are in the hangar it should count you as essentially not "existant" in the game universe. I'd even be partial to it hiding your location on the player list (I never did like the fact that the sector you are in is always displayed to everyone) Now the limits I was referring to primarily involve you sitting inside a station shield if you sit there for 5-10 minutes without doing anything (IE purchasing something, selling something or entering hangar) it will simply tractor push you outside the field. That way if there are hostile npc's they will kill you. If a player see's you as a contract leech or that you are just there to keep territory going they are free to kill you.

This would largely stop the problem as I see it without having an overly detrimental effect on either party as the "rules" would be very clearly defined. Now I'm aware that players can already deal with it to some extent because there really aren't many places that a player can be completely safe from another player but if someone is leeching contract's I wouldn't have to wangle my way in to kill them.

Another way to deal with one aspect of this problem IE the contract leeching would be to put out "accept/decline" buttons whenever a quest is initated for everyone but the person that initated it. That way if the person was afk they wouldn't accept it (Within say 30 seconds) and the option would simply disappear and they wouldn't be given the contract therefore wouldn't benefit from other peoples work."

Both are very good ideas!:)

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:13 pm

Yes they are. But they would require some new script from Vice, who is staying out of this for the moment.
I have made a decision. If you don't like it, continue to let me know.
I decided on a "no rules server" becuase some players think rules are to be broken, among other reasons.
I had hoped that reaon & common sense would prevail and for few exceptions, it has.
I hate to add rules so this is what I have come up with:
"Parking" to deliberately prevent decay, is imho a dishonourable tactic, but will be tolerated by the server, but tying up contracts is reprehensible!
Since the server has no way of knowing if the parked player has tied up contracts, there is nothing I can do.
However, any player who finds that a parked player has tied up contracts while I am monitoring the server , will be kicked from the game.
At least this way, other players will be involved in the decision for a player to be kicked. And in so doing, I ask all players to visit parked player sytems and verify that they are or are not tying up contracts. If you can't kill them while parked, at least they can be intimidated.
MM

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:48 pm

Like Eclipse, I'm not parking today. But, when I do park, it's always at a station ... but never in a station. Any player can get at me (and shoot me into oblivion) if they so choose.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:00 pm

When a player is parked with a contract active and is able to be destroyed the problem of active contract will still persist. The contract for the player will fail but the destroyed player has to accept the failure I think before any one else can start doing contracts in that sector. So the only option is for a player to report a parked player with active contract and then MMagio can kick him of at his own discretion. I do not know thou what happens to the contract status when a player with active contract get kicked off. The Player reporting the incedence who wants to do contracts in that sector might need to jump out and back in to the sector to resume accepting contracts in that sector.

[Edited on 1-23-2011 by Maarschalk]

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:35 pm

I appreciate your post Maarschalk, but you are misinformed.
If a player parks with an open contract, the contract stays open untill they are killed.
The problem is that if a player parks in a player built station, he cannot be killed by API or other players. It would require the use of SD's to kill him & the station.
Once the parked player is destroyed or kicked, the game returns to normal. No one needs to leave the system and return.
It stands to reason that if a player parks outside of a secure station, eventually the "reds' would find & destroy him
As I said if a player wants to park, I will not interfere. Only another player can tell me if the parked player is tying up contracts so getting kicked will require an active player to get involved, and I might not be monitoring at the time. It is a chance that parked players must take. And if kicked, they lose any hope of saving sysytem decay.
The risk and choice is thiers.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:21 am

When I'm doing a contract that I had activated and I get destroyed the mission fails and a screen opens asking me to accept failure or to exit the game and the contract will still be active till I select one of the options does it not? And many a time with multiple players doing a coop contract if the lead get destroyed mission will fail and contract is still active for the other players till the destroyed lead player accepts the failure I think. I had it happen many times that I was destroyed during contract and mission failed and contract stayed active and open till I canceled....So I'm not so sure that the contract CLOSES upon destruction of lead player only. There seem to be another action that needs to take place before contract closes......atleast that is my observation......

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:13 am

Yep, that is the one. And I think the contract stays active and does not close till you make the selection. So if a player is docked at a station parked out side in its shield with active contract and he is destroyed he will get that message and if he is not monitoring the game and is away from his computer he can not make a selection so contract stays open....

Galaxian · Post by **Galaxian** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:05 pm

In situations where an inactive/unresponsive player is parked with an open contract, thereby blocking other players from running contracts in the sector, the sale of station detonators might increase dramatically due to the systematic destruction of potential hide-outs for the offender.

It's also possible that the 'Idle Rich" players that aren't focused solely on their rank/status and looking for some adventure might be encouraged to engage in a little SEAD.

Or, maybe there's a bounty on parked contract-jammers. Even if it's an imaginary bounty.....

What would happen if the station staff got tired of that ship blocking the 'loading zone' for two hours and had it towed back to the docking ring where passers-by could take pot-shots at it....?

All in good fun of course...

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:13 pm

From post: 100784, Topic: tid=7160, author=Galaxian wrote:In situations where an inactive/unresponsive player is parked with an open contract, thereby blocking other players from running contracts in the sector, the sale of station detonators might increase dramatically due to the systematic destruction of potential hide-outs for the offender.

It's also possible that the 'Idle Rich" players that aren't focused solely on their rank/status and looking for some adventure might be encouraged to engage in a little SEAD.

Or, maybe there's a bounty on parked contract-jammers. Even if it's an imaginary bounty.....

What would happen if the station staff got tired of that ship blocking the 'loading zone' for two hours and had it towed back to the docking ring where passers-by could take pot-shots at it....?

All in good fun of course...

Ah, I like a man with a creative mind!

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:15 am

Hmmm, just when I figured I had a reasonable solution to this problem, you have to come up with a reason why it won't work.
Well, I will rely on whatever information another player supplies.
Let's hope we can work this out.

Galaxian · Post by **Galaxian** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:45 am

I figure if a pilot comes across an apparently abandoned ship (docked or otherwise), hails it a time or three, scans for lifesigns, etc. waits a reasonable time, then hails again and gets no response, that ship falls into the 'derelict' category and is subject to 'salvage' operations...

Edited for typo.

[Edited on 1-25-2011 by Galaxian]

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:27 am

From post: 100802, Topic: tid=7160, author=Eclipse wrote:The parked player may not be holding a contract intentionally.
If another player takes a contract in the same sector and is destroyed, the parked player's contract will remain in effect.
It would be a good idea for any parked player to do so away from areas that other players frequent or start in. Parked players in starter locations can easily cause gameplay issues without intention.

I thought that a parked player holding a contract open in a sector would prevent others from accepting a contract in the same sector. Unless you mean that a parked player who is not holding a contract becomes a part to holding the contract when another player chooses a contract in that sector and then get destroyed before completing the contract. So in that case does'nt the contract terminate after the player gets destroyed or makes the selection to restore game or accept failure? I guess it depends who is the flight lead. I thought also that a parked player not holding a contract can not be the flight lead when parked inside the Station.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:48 am

Ah, that answers some of my questions and thoughts. I knew there was some other factor but could not pin point it excactly. Thanks Eclipse.....

Post by **Marvin** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:23 am

Evidently, R1 needs a designated parking zone. Then, if MMaggio wants to, he can add parking meters.

darcsyde83 · Post by **darcsyde83** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:22 pm

what about adding the ability to hire MP NPC mercenaries "or combat drones?" specifically geared for protecting unpopulated controlled system?

so long as their running patrol routes or trade runs the territory will remain under that teams control until merc/drones and assets "mainly assets" are destroyed. and having remaining npc ships in area eigher transfer over to new controler or just disperse.

combined with a half hour idle auto boot would solve the issue nicely i think

[Edited on 1-27-2011 by darcsyde83]

Capt_Caveman · Post by **Capt_Caveman** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:00 pm

idle time limit auto boot sounds best to me