From post: 111183, Topic: tid=7792, author=moomin wrote:So a 1 man clan does get a chance at building stations but only like 10 or so. Not 50 by default.
I get a lot of reading done every time Vice and MMaggio delete stations. The trick is to find a book that has chapters (or at least sections of a chapter) split into 3-minute intervals. I then can read as the stations get re-built.
From post: 111209, Topic: tid=7792, author=Dengar wrote:I'm with moomin also, except that BA don't build stations, they try and destroy them. But doing so is so expensive compared to building.
Surely there has to be a better way than just buy a Constructor and off you go, compared to buy a detonator each time you blow one up?
Station building is not free Dengar, depending on your credit account and the area you are in building them costs waaaaaay more then blowing em up.
I have seen prices of 25 million per station build, and I am not extremely wealthy like some other players here.
Especially those with multiple accounts that just clone profiles and transfers the money between them.
Yes, station-building is not free. As Avenger has alluded to, the system location and over-all reputation level stipulates to the costs of building any structures in a given location. All of the stations I have built, and all the "cash" I've used to do so, I've earned the decent way. Of the 5 profiles I fly, each have been "brought up" from scratch, except one. And that one was sort of a gift/loaner to help resolve a perceived game/software problem. I've repaid in gelt for that one, as well.
I agree that the station-building/station limit difficulty needs some work. What the solution becomes, we'll all have to live/fly with. Something a bit more equitable/workable for all parties concerned would be my suggestion. I know that sounds a bit nebulous, but I don't have the technical skills to be more specific.
Commander
[SW] Clan Squadron Lead - Retired
Call Sign: Busch
Maybe Vice can make it a little the same as the stations in Star Wars Empire at War.
Once all the sub sections are destroyed the station goes up.
On the other hand it would be cooler if the station can defend itself with cannons, missiles and a defenders garrison, to add to the fun factor.
If that is possible maybe that can be added to the capital ships as well, this will also boost their ability to defend themselves a little better.
Even though the cost of building a station is high, that is more than off set by the vast wealth of some of the players. It is of no issue for some guys to build all day long as they have more than enough money. A station, once built, is not an ongoing financial burden. In real life, you can't buy a hundred buildings and then not have to pay anything to keep them in repair. You need to pay people to look after them.
What about instead of only a limit on the number of stations, how about an ongoing cost to the builders that needs to be paid and if not the stations starts to fall into disrepair and then in the end fall apart?
If could work like this:
A player (clan or not) builds a stations. It is named as a clan station. That station needs to have Cr10,000,000 (or another amount) each "cycle" to be paid to its "staff" to keep working. Any and all players of that clan who are on line will have money deducted from their accounts (similar to hanger fees). If only 1 clan member is on line at the time the payment is due then that player get the whole whack. If more than one is on, then it gets divided by those players. It will need to be set that building a station provides more income for the clan than costs else it will be a waste of time. Players can dock at that station for free. This will force clan members to actually pay for their massive station empires.
If a set number of payment cycles is missed then the station slowly falls apart, and thus needs more money to keep it going. More missed payments then the systems government withdraws the building permit and demolishes the station as a "risk to navigation"
"wait" what about non clan stations? Surely clans will just build those to get around the ongoing cost" you may say! Fear not, I have a mad, crazy idea for that as well.
A player builds a station and it is not clan owned. This will mean that no clan members are left with the burden of running cost. However, the station still needs to be maintained. So, the system government takes on the responsibility of running the station, but they charge station docking fees to cover the costs. Like parking fees on council owned land. All players using the station pay a small docking fee. In the mean time, a clan may look at this station and think "Hey, I like the look of that place" they can the "buy" the station from the system government and name it as a clan. They take on the risk of running it now and as such, the cost. This could work for smaller clans as they do not need the capital cost of building the station, but have the chance to own one if they wish.
If the station is not used, the system government decided that is loosing money on it and so carry out "efficiency savings" and demolish the station.
This idea means that there is true economy is station building with costs and benefits associated with them. No one player or clan can just dump a shed load of stations in a system and then just park in space to maintain the benefit. They need to make sure they have enough money for their empire. It does mean that small, non clan, non aligned players will not get an income from stations. But the way the station system works now means they get no financial benefit anyway.]
This, coupled with the ability to destroy stations using cannon/missile fire will make station building more fluid and hopefully more interesting.
Anyways, there you have it. The ramblings of a bounty hunter lizard. Keep them. They might be worth something in years to come!
Thats why I said they will need to provide more income than running cost to make this work. The idea being that, yes stations make you money, but like all things, it is not 100% profit. You need to take some of you income to pay for the station.
In my non accountant way, I have come up with a quick spreadsheet that shows my working out. As you will see, even with running costs, a player can turn a profit on a station within 3 payment cycles. Even quicker if they have more than 1 station. I dont know the true costs, but the sheet allows you to alter the variables to show a realist picture.
For those guys out there good with numbers, let me know if I made a glaring mistake!
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Ideally station would cost enough that clanmates had to pool resources, but provide a lot of income and have to be maintained.
and actually, as it stands, it will be a very very long time until i recoup the losses from the stations i have made. so its not strictly a matter of money either.
[Edited on 7-25-2011 by Dingo]
Life is an illusion. Only shooting red things is real.
OK maybe the numbers need to be resolved, but the principle is sound.
Once built a station has to be maintained and that costs. You also get income from the thing, but if you are to there to get the income then equally you are not there to pay for the upkeep, and so it falls into disrepair. If it goes so far into that state then maybe an enterprising pilot might want to grab a bargain or two . - like E (Evochron) Bay and build up their own empire for the dregs of others.
And let's be able to blow them up with cannon fire!!!!
From post: 111231, Topic: tid=7792, author=Avenger wrote:Especially those with multiple accounts that just clone profiles and transfers the money between them.
How can you transfer money from one account to another?
I save to new profiles quite often for safety and also so that I can have, for axample, a Sol profiles so I can try out my most recent brainwave on landing on Earth or landing on a gas giant. I thought that each profile was unique, a snapshot of me at that particular time!
Callsign: Incoming
Life is like a sewer... what you get out of it depends on what you put into it. - Bob Newhart
Hell is being in a pure platinum asteroid field... with a diamond mining beam
or to have the cooperation of another player to temporarily hold the money. I know of this happening, and i dont like it. The same way i dont like being able to change names and clone profiles. But it is what it is i guess.
Life is an illusion. Only shooting red things is real.
I was aiming at those with multiple accounts and multiple computers, I thought I was clear enough but apparently I wasn't
then you can clone and transfer towards unlimited resources.
It is also pointless to say "I don't do that" because that is how human nature works, if you can get something for free you will do it, no point in denying it. :P
I refuse to do it, but i dont blame anyone who does. I just wish the loopholes were closed, between this and multiple names. And a few other exploits i am aware of. It isnt hard to ear rank and money in EM, but i wish it all had to really be earned.
back to stations. i think that they are cheap and though of cheaply. make them expensive but worthwhile, so that they are worth protecting, and remembering locations. I build stations when i run out of gas, this shouldnt be.
[Edited on 7-26-2011 by Dingo]
Life is an illusion. Only shooting red things is real.
It is only easy if you have 2 independent modem/router connections with 2 or more computers. You can not use this loophole using multiple computers on the same shared network on multiplay.......
[Edited on 7-26-2011 by Maarschalk]
Arvoch Alliance Stat:
Evochron Legends Stats:
Evochron Mercenary Stats:
Darkness is the absence of Light as Evil is the absence of Good
From post: 111337, Topic: tid=7792, author=Maarschalk wrote:It is only easy if you have 2 independent modem/router connections with 2 or more computers. You can not use this loophole using multiple computers on the same shared network on multiplay.......
[Edited on 7-26-2011 by Maarschalk]
i wish this were true!
Life is an illusion. Only shooting red things is real.
From post: 111329, Topic: tid=7792, author=Dingo wrote:It isnt hard to ear rank and money in EM, but i wish it all had to really be earned.
Using two or three clones (so as to complete contracts in two or three territories out in the boonies) is not an easy way to earn rank. In fact, it spreads out all those contract kills and limits combat time in a WZ. Rank comes slowly.
Sorry I've seemed to pull the thread off track. I'm one person, two hands, one joystick - I don't see that multiple priofiles on multiple machines helps since I can only play one at a time - but I'm not worried about being uber-wealthy anyway
However I am in favour of being able to have a station or two in known space as in independent.
Options suggested seem to be;
a clan built limit and an extra independent limit
make them more expensive to own so people think about where and how many to have, hopefully leaving a bit of room for independents
make sure that they can earn a bit more than they cost
have a variety of asset management systems where the authorities pay for running of independent stations, charging docking fees and destroy them if no one visits (the docking fee would be a put off)
blow up a station to create space for yours (and presumambly take on a clan single handed)
have an individual station limit so that bigger clans can control more space - hopefully there will be charted systems that are clan free for independents to use
here are my additions
designate some systems as "free", meaning that clan stations aren't allowed
all the independendts get together to clear a clan controlled system for their own use - oops, they would be a clan then!
allow clans to sub-let independent stations that go towards their control quota, but that all the financial benefits acrue to the independent (a sort of franchise system)
One thing I don't understand - if clans build stations to "control" an area, why would they want to build non clan designated stations? What benefit would they get?
Callsign: Incoming
Life is like a sewer... what you get out of it depends on what you put into it. - Bob Newhart
Hell is being in a pure platinum asteroid field... with a diamond mining beam
Indeed Dave, some systems should be free of clan control.
I find it a bit odd that the warzones are being claimed as well as the starter area Sapphire.
I think Sapphire should be free from clan control for new players, clan or none clan are able to learn the ropes and the warzones should be free of clan control as well.
Especially the warzones, they are free for all to fight in, it's the frontline of humanity against Vonari and clans have no business claiming a common battleground.
I get a lot of reading done every time Vice and MMaggio delete stations. The trick is to find a book that has chapters (or at least sections of a chapter) split into 3-minute intervals. I then can read as the stations get re-built.
Using two or three clones (so as to complete contracts in two or three territories out in the boonies) is not an easy way to earn rank. In fact, it spreads out all those contract kills and limits combat time in a WZ. Rank comes slowly.