questions on hangar and damage

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Flying Brick
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questions on hangar and damage

Post by Flying Brick »

I am somewhat confused about a couple of things.

First, I am not really sure how the hangar is supposed to work. I tried to store my Starmaster, it said "current ship: Starmaster, stored ship: Starmaster". My confusion, I hope, is easy to understand: I only have one ship; either it is stored, or I "have" it.
Anyway, I went to the shipyard, to exchange it for a Talon. This was because I was going to swap the Talon for a military frame.
However, when I selected the Talon, the top of the screen showed that I'd be getting back several millions in exchange (because I was swapping a much more expensive frame, a Starmaster, for a Talon). Ok, but I thought I was _not_ selling my current frame? If I wanted to sell it, I wouldn't have stored it, would I?...

Anyway, in the end I said, ok, forget about all this, let's see how it works, so I took my Starmaster (after emptying its cargo bays) to the carrier. There, I chose the Ferret (mil rank 0 currently, so that's the only thing I can get), and I got an error message saying "Assembly points remaining -20", or something along similar lines. Ok, I thought, presumably the Starmaster has more assembly points than the Ferret...I then brought all my equipment down to level 1 (Engines, Shields, etc), but it made no difference. In the end, I was not able to swap my Starmaster for a Ferret, no matter what I tried. Every time I clicked on the Trade button, I'd just get the same error message as above.

If anybody can shed some light on what I was doing wrong, I'd be grateful :)

Also, another question: I've paid attention to the impact some missiles have during combat. I've had cases where the 8 Excals made 4-5 "impact noises", but the enemy ship did not get destroyed.
Let's do a little math: biggest shield is 1000 or 1500, can't recall precisely. Add 250 for the Boosters. So that's 1750. Biggest hull armor is 385, and these were civvy ships, but let's say 400.
So, just looking at the raw numbers, 4 Excals should be more than enough, but this was definitely not the case more times than it was (basically, for bigger frames, an Excal salvo almost never kills them).

One possibility is that the AI may have access to other eq (better shields/armor), which would not be a problem, I would just like to understand what exactly is going on.

Ok, I know you'll say: "well, the Excals do have 800 nominal damage, but that damage does not apply to shields 100%, only a fraction of it". Sure, I thought of that, too. But then I looked at what was happening with the enemy ship _after_ the shield (usually front) went down. With the front shield all the way down (from the first few missiles), the next _two_ missiles that hit still did not destroy the ship. Again, this happened several times. The ship went yellow after the first one, and red after the second, but it did not die.

So, even accepting that missiles do not have full impact on shields (similar to particle vs. lasers against shields), one _would_ expect them to have full impact on armor, right? How can two Excals, with 800 damage each, not destroy a ship that has some 400 or less armor? I must be missing something here, obviously, but what is it?

And before you say it, I was paying attention and those missiles that hit _after_ the front shield was down, did not hit the other shields (which remained green, suggesting they were not hit), but the hull did get damaged (the bottom horizontal bar on the enemy monitor showed taking damage), so the last two missiles must have hit the armor, and not another section of the ship that was still protected by shields.

So, again, I'm a bit confused as to why the numbers don't seem to add up...what am I missing here?

Thanks in advance, and sorry for rambling so :)
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Marvin
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questions on hangar and damage

Post by Marvin »

:cool: I've always wondered how guys can manage to talley up effects of a string of missiles as they strike one ship while being surrounded by a dozen or more other hostiles. Especially since you'd probably need to also count the number of flares (or, at least, note whether or not the missiles actually hit the target ... which is not always the case, considering how well the CMs function) the target deployed in an effort to defeat those missiles.

:o Anyway, onward to military ships. They come pre-outfitted. A screenshot would help in determining why you received the warning about insufficient assembly points. Or a list of equipment installed on the Starmaster.
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questions on hangar and damage

Post by Dingo »

take out the fuel tank for the assembly. only thing you can change on a mil frame.
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Flying Brick
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questions on hangar and damage

Post by Flying Brick »

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I only had a Level 2 fuel tank (800 fuel).
The list of equipment was:
- frame: C9 Engine, C10 Shields, C5 Cargo Bay, C8 Wing System, C2(?) Cargo Bay (800 fuel)
- equipment: all 8 hardpoints were taken: Mining Beam, C3 Repair Sys, Cannon Relay System, Shield Boost x 5, Mantis Jump Drive, Afterburner Drive, Deploy Construct. and Build Construct.


I did not take a screenshot at that time, and now, for the time being, I'm stuck in Pearl trying to increase my reputation :) But it shouldn't be long until it changes...:D

As for tallying up the effect of missiles, Marvin, you have a very good point. My observations, as I noted, were not entirely based on the scientific method. But there were cases where I could actually pay attention, for several reasons:

- the cases where I made the observations were rather late in the mission, so the enemies had mostly exhausted their missiles; there were still some, but very very few.

- I usually launch my missiles at a distance of some 2k. At that point I'm not yet concerned with missiles, not only because of the previous point, but also because of the range, so I can pay attention to what's going on.

- when missiles _hit_ a target, there's a "thump" sound, if I'm not mistaken, so you can tell if it hit or not.

- furthermore, you can see the shield variations on your enemy monitor to the bottom right corner. It goes like this: "thump"-shield decreases-"thump"-shield decreases-"thump"-shield decreases-"thump"-frame goes yellow-"thump"-frame goes red...

Yes, all of this is in quick succession, but, like I said, I'm really not doing anything else at that point in time. I'm still either far enough away to worry about missiles yet, or flying _away_ from the pack at a speed faster than missiles can catch up, so I literally have nothing else to do.

And you also make a good point with regards to CMs - I expect that's why I usually only hear 4-5 thumps after an Excal salvo...

To clarify further yet, my "combat style" is to drift through the pack at 1800 kps and shoot while in range, then when I reach a distance of some 2.5-3 km, I turn back and do it all over again. Since I basically never slow down below 1800 kps except at a very safe distance, I am only under threat of missiles while flying through the pack - and even then, most of them are missing because of my speed. Similarly with enemy particle/laser fire. The downside is, of course, I don't get much shooting time, but to me, at this level of "skill" (or lack thereof :P), it is much safer than staying close to the pack long enough, so I'm really never surrounded by them except when I'm flying through at 1800+ kps. :)

This would probably get me killed asap against a human player, but it works great against the AI :)

So the mil ships already come with a Shield/Engine/etc?
Ok, in that case I'd expect the shield/engine/etc components on my civvy frame would simply get lost, which I'm ok with...


Thanks for your help, guys.
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Marvin
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questions on hangar and damage

Post by Marvin »

Image It was probably the hard points. The entry level military ship doesn't have 8 hard points.

===========================================

Edit:
So the mil ships already come with a Shield/Engine/etc?
The basics, yes. But you still need to fill up your equipment slots with all the things that enhance basic systems.


[Edited on 7-2-2011 by Marvin]
Flying Brick
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questions on hangar and damage

Post by Flying Brick »

ok, thank you. I'll give it another try as soon as Pearl starts seeing things my way...
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questions on hangar and damage

Post by Flying Brick »

Ok, an update, seeing as how I managed to pacify Pearl and went to Arvoch WZ to play with mil frames.

Interestingly enough, I ran into the same problem with the shipyard.
Tried to swap my Starmaster for a Ferret, same message about "-20 assembly points available". Same for the Aries. BUT, when I finally got enough rank to try the Wraith, that swap went through without a glitch.
I still don't understand exactly what the problem was, unfortunately, but at least it goes away as soon as one can get the Wraith, which is soon enough.

I mean, intuitively, I guess the message is rather explicit: the new frame that I'm trying to get has 20 assembly points less than the one I'm trying to give away.
The problem is that I don't know what to do about it, and how to get around it, if it's at all possible.

So anyway, for anyone else that might ever have this issue, kill a few more reds until you get to rank 3 and can get the Wraith, and it'll work just fine.
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Marvin
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questions on hangar and damage

Post by Marvin »

From post: 110683, Topic: tid=7730, author=Flying Brick wrote:I mean, intuitively, I guess the message is rather explicit: the new frame that I'm trying to get has 20 assembly points less than the one I'm trying to give away.
The problem is that I don't know what to do about it, and how to get around it, if it's at all possible.
:cool: If you're carrying Excals, often the easiest way to "get around it" is to sell the package before trading.
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questions on hangar and damage

Post by Flying Brick »

That's a good point. Don't think I tried that, because I assumed that there would be no problems with the weapons - that they would transfer to the new ship smoothly.
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questions on hangar and damage

Post by Marvin »

:cool: Neither the Ferret nor Aries have enough hard points to carry Excals:

;) http://www.starwraith.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6887
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questions on hangar and damage

Post by Flying Brick »

Hmm, you have a very good point...that _might_ be it. I'll try it again without the excals next time.
Thank you again, Marvin!