Situation Update

DennyMala · Post by **DennyMala** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:56 am

Nope, I kept Comodo Firewall and unchecked that option you pointed me towards.

I tried both with firewall enabled and disabled without any change in behaviour in the voice chat.

I could hear Marv when he was transmitting in both clan or sector mode but I was able to made myself heard only in clan mode.

This is getting even more weird...

[Edited on 6/12/2010 by DennyMala]

DennyMala · Post by **DennyMala** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:52 pm

I would have avoided that if possible as changing the firewall means create all rules and exceptions anew for all applications on my system....and it's a long work.

I disabled it, both firewall and secure+ protection.... that should do the same...isn't it?

Best bet if I unistall it is to change enritely the firewall.... but seeing what matousec report, the best one is COMODO FIREWALL and it's the only free one in the top range.

I may ask for support to them, but I need a specific question or mail to send since I didn't grasp so much of what is going on.

If Vice or someone write down something I can send them, I'll look into it and find a way to contact the support team.

[Edited on 6/12/2010 by DennyMala]

Post by **Vice** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:35 pm

I disabled it, both firewall and secure+ protection.... that should do the same...isn't it?

Some of what I read suggested that changes made by the firewall could still potentially apply until it is uninstalled, but I don't know if that is accurate or not. If you could hear the voice chat, then it means you were receiving the packets ok, but something (maybe the firewall) was still blocking your outbound packets.

DennyMala · Post by **DennyMala** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:22 pm

Blocking them only when in sector chat mode.... clan chat mode was working pretty fine.

DennyMala · Post by **DennyMala** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:23 pm

From post: 97630, Topic: tid=6656, author=Eclipse wrote:Please note that it's Comodo's Internet Security that scored highest; which is not free, although maybe matousec mistakenly thinks that the free firewall is the same as the security suite (which is troublesome on it's own).
Looking over Matousec's testing software, Comodo's free firewall alone would not score as high as their security suite.

Well, I have the free version downloaded from the site and it's the pro active security version with the defence + part.

DennyMala · Post by **DennyMala** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:55 am

What I don't understand is what's different between clan mode and sector mode when it comes to packets.

If the firewall was blocking them, it should happens in both cases, while it's not.

Post by **Marvin** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:35 pm

From post: 97850, Topic: tid=6656, author=Eclipse wrote: There was another player on last night whose modem ships default with an option to block fragmented IP packets turned on.

Was that Wolf (not his full callsign)? Yesterday, he was having the exact same problem as Denny.

Post by **Marvin** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:06 pm

Did you and he manage to get his in-game chat working?

Post by **Vice** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:58 pm

For the next test build, I am implementing an adjustable sample duration setting that will let users who may have packet fragmenting disabled change the duration of their sampling in an attempt to keep the packets small enough for them to be broadcasted. Since it will be adjustable, you can try all kinds of different sample lengths to try and pinpoint which value is needed to avoid the packet fragmenting your system won't allow.

Note: by adjusting the value, it is likely that you may notice significant chopping or stuttering in the sample sequences (especially on systems with slower memory performance), but it should at least allow it to work on systems with fragmenting restrictions. Also, this will only work for outbound packets, so other players will be able to hear you, but you still won't be able to hear them if your system blocks those larger packets. But this way, at least we can test for which value(s) work with systems that block the packets and if it's clear enough, the default values may be adjustable for an upcoming build that would work with fragment restrictions in place.

The system will use the same 'soundinput.txt' file for adjusting both the input channel/device and the duration. So an example would be:

-1
50

The first line with '-1' instructs the game to use the default auto-detect option for the input device and the second line specifies the duration of time in milliseconds for each input sequence.

[Edited on 12-10-2010 by Vice]

DennyMala · Post by **DennyMala** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:48 am

Good, looking forward to test his feature and try to narrow down the problem.

A side question, it is not in the pool of possibilities to use a diferent chat protocol since other games runs pretty fine and thus are probably using a different system?

Post by **Vice** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:30 pm

In addition to the optional setting above, I'm also going to try and modify the system to avoid fragmenting entirely, so it should work with your firewall by default. I'm worked on the system last night and plane to spend part of today testing it. So far, it's working well and does not the fragment packets.

Post by **Vice** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:39 pm

Ok, here is the test build for the new voice chat system. There are several important points to keep in mind:

- Although this new voice chat system is compatible with the old system, other players using older builds will likely hear a lot of ticking and chopping from you. This is normal and only test build 1.190 will be able to remove the ticking.

- If another player is using an older build and your system blocks fragmented packets, you still won't be able to hear them, but they will be able to hear you with this build.

- The server will also hear the ticking until it is updated as well.

- For proper functionality, all players you want to test with will need to use test build 1.190 to avoid the ticking noise.

Here is the download link for the test build:

http://www.starwraith.com/evochronmerce ... yb1190.exe

Post by **Marvin** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:48 pm

Two downloads in one day ... my, my. Well, I'll be ready to test whenever you are, Denny.

DennyMala · Post by **DennyMala** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:39 am

I'm getting the version now and will be ready for today's session.... let's see if Vice won this fight or if the beast is only injured.

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:03 pm

From post: 97867, Topic: tid=6656, author=Vice wrote: The system will use the same 'soundinput.txt' file for adjusting both the input channel/device and the duration. So an example would be:

-1
50

The first line with '-1' instructs the game to use the default auto-detect option for the input device and the second line specifies the duration of time in milliseconds for each input sequence.

Denny first tried adjusting the first variable ... changed it to 0 (zero) : no difference (could still transmit in Clan mode but not in Sector) ... then changed it to 2: got nothing at all.

He then tried adjusting the second variable ... changed it to 100: no difference (transmit only in Clan mode) ... then changed it to 25: it worked for both Clan and Sector.

We were both using the test DL and logged into MMaggio's server. The voice (both mine and his) sounded "computerized" and a bit choppy. My end always worked ... Denny's always worked in Clan mode and, with the second variable set to 25, in both modes. Population on the server averaged about six players during the test.

Post by **Vice** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:50 pm

Yeah, that chop is required to get the packets small enough to fit within the tight confines of avoiding packet fragmenting. I plan on running some other tests to make sure the chop is mostly related to slow system performance and/or remote player locations.

There could be something else about the 'sector' mode that Denny's firewall doesn't like. It's the same packet, just with a different string marker. Not sure why the firewall would block those. But if he is now able to broadcast with the firewall in place using 'clan' mode, then the non-fragmented packets are being allowed.

Edit: and yes, as Eclipse points out, do not test this build with the external text file options. It is designed to run stand-alone, so that file would either need to be deleted or renamed.

[Edited on 12-12-2010 by Vice]

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:15 am

I could hear him clearly.

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:47 am

We tested both ways ... yes, we* used the test release that was supposed to work without the file. That's how we first tested the in-game chat. It was a no-go for Denny in Sector mode. So he inserted the file as outlined above. And, with these settings:

-1
25

... it worked. Not with 50 (default) or 100 but with 25.

I don't know why or how ... or for how long MMaggio was listening before he heard anything (from Denny) on his end.

* Leastwise, I did. I also asked Denny and, unless I misunderstood him, he was using the test release too.

Edit: To repeat, we used the test release that was supposed to work without the file. We tested without the file. It didn't work (except as described earlier). So Denny (not me) added the file to his game folder and tested again. With the second variable set to 25, his in-game chat finally did work in both Sector and Clan mode.

[Edited on 12-13-2010 by Marvin]

Post by **Vice** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:38 am

Thanks for the results. I'm getting close to a design framework that should provide reliable results on systems that block large packets. For this next test, this build has its own version of the server program since some changes to the sampling, segment duration, and tapering have been added this time around. Here are the details for this test build:

- Sound segment duration doubled (reduces the frequency of the clicking/popping when it does occur). Utilizes more packet space (up to around 1450, just under the limit).
- More tapering of each sound segment (reduces clicking and popping).
- Adjustment of sampling rate to work within packet limits.

Technically, this test build can work with 1.188, but if you test on the Remula One server using 1.191, your voice will have a higher pitch and some effects will not be applied properly. So my recommendation would be to use the test build of the server program for testing with the 1.191 client build for proper operation. If my schedule permits, I can run the server program for 1.191 for you and you can connect via direct IP for testing. Just let me know what day and time works best for both of you (or I can join with Denny as his schedule permits).

Server: http://www.starwraith.com/evochronmerce ... rb1191.exe

Game: http://www.starwraith.com/evochronmerce ... yb1191.exe

DennyMala · Post by **DennyMala** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:08 am

I will be sure to be online and testing this coming sunday as always, but I'll let you know if I can do a midweek test as soon as I can. Pretty hectic week approaching Christmas with relatives and friends coming and going for dinners and so on.

You may want to let Marvin gives you the time as being in Italy put my time zones calculations a bit in danger of errors....

Sorry if this will take too long, but dunno really if I can get online during the week and give an advance warning to you to put up the server. I may end up being online and knowing it the moment the night start...

Any way to get in touch with you and have a fast answer Vice so that we may end up arranging the meeting on the go?

[Edited on 13/12/2010 by DennyMala]

DennyMala · Post by **DennyMala** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:18 pm

Game version downloaded and soundinput.txt file deleted.

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:26 pm

Just send an email, Denny. If the power company doesn't fail me, most likely I'll be there.

Post by **Vice** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:12 pm

Any way to get in touch with you and have a fast answer Vice so that we may end up arranging the meeting on the go?

Yes, if you want to chat with me on short notice, e-mail is generally best.

DennyMala · Post by **DennyMala** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:23 am

Seeing the latest development in my family schedule... I think it's safe to say that we'll test it out this coming sunday; between relatives, dinners and band playing I won't be there probably neither on a mistake.

Marvin can confirm the time for you US guys.

Post by **Marvin** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:07 pm

Noon, Pacific time. 3:00 pm MMaggio's time.