Evochron Mercenary - Should displayed player coordinates be range limited?

Post by **Vice** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:36 pm

Vote for which you prefer:

Post by **Vice** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:44 pm

I voted "yes", but I think that "nav map range" would make more sense to be able to get definitive coordinates.
It might be just me, but I think it would actually encourage exploration (or at least a little work) by the more aggressive players for going after others in MP.

With such a narrow window, a pursuing player would have no clue where to go if they hadn't already found the player and were in pursuit. And even then, the target player can get away easily with just a few jumps, then change course and never be found again for the rest of the session. It will be extremely easy to never encounter another player online with such limited detection. It will generally all come down to voluntary interaction.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:46 pm

I voted no. But I would like to see more hidding capabilities for player built stations. Like cloaking device or stealth generator for player built stations.....

verbosity · Post by **verbosity** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:56 pm

this is tricky, the current system has its limitations, and allows a player to discover hidden locations without much effort ( when someone who has put the work in travels there ), but I have to agree with vice that a player should be able to track down another player.

so how about the following rules
1. stealth devices mask a players location totally
2. if a player is within 20 ( or a suitable figure, in the range of 20-50 ) sectors of another player they will get the sector coordinates ( unless that player is cloaked )
3. players outside the range of rule 2 will be given the nearest system, this would include vonarion, riftspace,wolf etc

BraveHart · Post by **BraveHart** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:00 pm

"Keep it the same as in Legends"......

Sinbad · Post by **Sinbad** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:16 pm

Originally posted by verbosity
this is tricky, the current system has its limitations, and allows a player to discover hidden locations without much effort ( when someone who has put the work in travels there ), but I have to agree with vice that a player should be able to track down another player.

so how about the following rules
1. stealth devices mask a players location totally
2. if a player is within 20 ( or a suitable figure, in the range of 20-50 ) sectors of another player they will get the sector coordinates ( unless that player is cloaked )
3. players outside the range of rule 2 will be given the nearest system, this would include vonarion, riftspace,wolf etc

I totally agree with you Verbosity... This seems to me a suitable compromise. By seeing player locations by system name you can still find where the action is but it's more difficult for someone to follow you to your hidden player-built station.

[Edited on 10-7-10 by MCCON]

Ravenfeeder · Post by **Ravenfeeder** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:00 pm

I vote NO. It would put a limitation on the game. Mind, I'd like to see the stations having defence systems. Say gun turrents and missile slots. Also, long time proximity mines with a built in IFF so that they will only activate against a non-original builder, or clan. A station defence system would also have to be IFF activated, imho.

Be a shame to go to all the trouble of building a station etc, and, then having some wally wander along and wipe it out with one FT.

Another thought, will we, or won't we, be able to tell if a station has been wiped out when we join in MP after an absence? Be a bit disturbing, and, to my sense of humour, a bit funny, to spawn next to your station, all ready to refuel and do great deeds, only to find that your station has been extinguished!

Though, I'm darned if I can think of any way that you could get information re station presence before spawning in MP. Maybe we could leave a stealthed up container nearby, with the necessary commodities, money, fuel, to rebuild a station! Being able to leave a filled up stealth container, here and there, would be a handy attribute, be very useful to pirate too, if you could find one.

Post by **Marvin** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:50 pm

I'm abstaining, for now ... 'cause I see no harm in giving the current system a try. If for no other reason than it's cheaper (read: no additional programming) that way. But, should it become evident (meaning, somebody keeps blowing up my station) that we need a better method of keeping stations hidden ... well, then I vote for modification.

That said, I don't agree with the philosophy of "many hidden stations" as a means of evading enemy attacks.

Zorro only had one hidden cave.
Batman only had one hidden cave.
Superman only had one Fortress of Solitude.
The Lone Ranger only had one (hidden) silver mine.
Captain Video only had one hidden base.
Captain Midnight only had one hidden base.
Count Dracula only had one castle.
Roy Rogers only had one ranch (Triple-R-Bar).

Only stands to reason, any "lone ranger" shouldn't need more than one space station. Especially since, I'd imagine, they will cost into the billions of credits.

Edit:

Okay, I just watched Tutorial Video #6. Not sure how long the deployable thingies operate ... but some of them seem to offer a lot of protection to a player's station. So ... I'm for leaving things as is, for now.

[Edited on 7-10-2010 by Marvin]

Post by **Vice** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:56 pm

Also, they don't cost billions to build. The cost is kept very low intentionally to keep station building/destruction more of a fluid process of 'empire management' rather than a rare option for only a few wealthy players.

Post by **Marvin** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:59 pm

I get the feeling it might get really crowded on MM's server.

warsign · Post by **warsign** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:17 pm

I think all about this again. If enemy follows you,very easy to escape. Even in Legend, with only sector coord, very difficult to find someone. Everyone wants it to hide their stations but gameplay will effect very badly. Every clan will live on at the edges of Evochron systems. There are very small number of enemy out there actually and If an enemy connects to server game is saying you anyway. Live the sector immediately. Tracking someone would be so difficult. And this game about space,space must be dangerous.
No enemy,less fun. This thing kinda removing lasers and guns. We throw flowers eachother If we find eachother

If your station gone,build new one.
I say no.

[Edited on 7-10-2010 by warsign]

soulsacrifice · Post by **soulsacrifice** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:39 pm

Originally posted by Vice
Also, they don't cost billions to build. The cost is kept very low intentionally to keep station building/destruction more of a fluid process of 'empire management' rather than a rare option for only a few wealthy players.

I think it would make more sense for stations to be very costly, and harder to destroy. I have 100+ billion in Legends and not much to spend it all on. Most people will be part of a clan who can put their money together to create a network of stations and the lone wolfs would be more likely to build hidden stations. I'm sure i'll still enjoy it as it is though.

Will player built stations appear on the nav map?

Post by **Vice** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:49 pm

Yes, they'll appear on the nav map once in range.

tha_rami · Post by **tha_rami** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:53 pm

What Verbosity said makes the most sense to me.

Kovah · Post by **Kovah** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:50 pm

I'd like to see the ~ menu somehow worked into the game as an actual mechanic, other than a player list... like long range scanners or something. Same basic idea, but more immersive.

Also, with money being so easy (almost too easy) to get once you know what you're doing, I'd love for there to be something to sink all of it into. If not stations, then something else. Or perhaps making money not so easy to come by. I just remember looting the never ending cargo containers of stealth generators that sold for ridiculous amounts of money, and going back and forth from there to a station. Sure... I didn't HAVE to do that. But realistically, I would. If I'm trying to be immersed in a game I am going to think like the character. "I can make limitless amounts of money by doing this incredibly easy and mundane task... nah I'll pass and go risk my life for barely a fraction of what I'd make here." Not a likely train of thought for a mercenary.

So in short, I'd like to see the functions of the ~ menu (at least the location part) something more than just a menu. Maybe a sensor array you dock with or something, I don't know. And either give us something to sink our unlimited cash flow into, or make that cash harder to come by.

Just my 92,396,432,827 cents. (I have so many to spare since you left all this valuable crap just lying around!)

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:47 pm

Originally posted by Eclipse

I just wonder if it will change when the count of aggressive players goes up.

Probably. But I have every confidence that Vice will at least keep the "realism" option on a back burner.

verbosity · Post by **verbosity** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:14 pm

Originally posted by Eclipse
I would have thought more people would have preferred the more realistic option of only having the coordinates given when within navigation range, but the current 10 for and 13 against seems to suggest otherwise.
I just wonder if it will change when the count of aggressive players goes up.

I had to vote no as I felt the system suggested would not be a progressive move, however I do like my own suggestion since it offers a solution that has the benefits of both options..

Sinbad · Post by **Sinbad** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:57 pm

So, I also voted no, agreeing with Verb's point of view that a "yes" vote would hinder the general flow of gameplay. I also think that a middle-way compromise would be a better vote option.

ryuu · Post by **ryuu** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:49 am

i agree, the middle way compromise is best, it would be nice to have it non-linear, like i sugested, but even a linear drop off wouodbe good

Dengar · Post by **Dengar** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:14 pm

I voted no, but like Verbs ideas. If you are "out of range", or better "out of system" then you need only to show the system.

If I were in say Deneeb and pressed the tilde key and Eclipse were in Aires then now I get Eclipse's SX, SY and SZ, and I spend half my time looking at the map to see where that is!!

If the result were changed just to be "Aires" then at least I know where to go. When I get to Aires and assuming Eclipse were still there then I would get the full SX, SY and SZ when I pressed the tilde key. After all to travel from one end of the Evochron to the other takes time and in that time Eclipse is most likely to change his position somewhat anyway. Rommie does it all the time!!!

Taking that a bit further, if I were in Sapphire asnd Bossk were in Glacia, then I would only get "Glacia", since although it is in the same system, its a completely different area and I would normally have to pass through gates to get there.

But that just my 10 penneth.

Post by **Marvin** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

I could be way off track here but I suspect the original intent of the â€œtildeâ€� function was to troubleshoot any associated game bugs during development of multiplayer. Ergo, the reason information is formatted the way it is â€¦ is so Vice could determine if players were showing up, via his MP algorithm, in the proper sector.

And, if thatâ€™s really the case, a lot of these ideas (as good as they might sound) would require a lot of extra programming. Because they would require the program to check each playerâ€™s current position (which is already being done), compare each to every other playerâ€™s current position (not currently being done*), and make a series of computations to determine, in three dimensions, relative positioning â€¦ then decide what data, if any (depending on which ideas are adopted), to display at the press of the tilde key.

* Edit: Granted, itâ€™s being done within the confines of the game. Else, interaction between players would be impossible. But, possibly, all that data is located elsewhere in the game code â€¦ and not easily accessible to the tilde key function.

[Edited on 7-13-2010 by Marvin]

tha_rami · Post by **tha_rami** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:41 pm

I think that programming obstacles have never been an obstacle to Vice. The same way he is said to wreak havoc upon millions of uncoming Vonarian cruisers with the press of a button on his trusty flight-stick, he has never been afraid to look a programming task straight in the eyes - then get a coffee.

If it's valuable to the game, he would find a way to do it, and if it wasn't valuable to the game, this post wouldn't exist.

...

Besides, the code is already in the game as he uses similar code to display your current location in the navigation screen.

Post by **Marvin** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:05 am

Never said he couldn't do it. Just didn't want to delay the game's release.

tha_rami · Post by **tha_rami** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:59 pm

Hehe, nobody would want to do that. Unless, of course, it makes the game more awesome.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:02 pm

Smart thinking there relatively for a Robot that is Marvin....LOL....