abstract discussion..........

[ryuu]

ok, here is a more scientific explanation, i don't know if it's right, but it's just my two pence

all energy is movement in some form, so, if every string has energy, they move... simplz

[Marvin]

I don't buy it. Momentum dictates that an object move in a straight line. Something must act on the string to cause it to deviate either from being at rest or from straight-line movement.

[ryuu]

think elastic

[Marvin]

Elasticity is not a basic component of motion. What makes something elastic?

[Maarschalk]

Originally posted by verbosity

Originally posted by ryuu
ahh, but what about string theory, which you used as an example earlier, strings are one dimensional, and therefore could make up a 1D universe

strings have one spatial dimension but also exist in time and are thus 2D minimum, and it's their vibrations that create the impression of objects at the larger scale and thus would need an extra dimension to 'vibrate' in.

but lets look at 1D you can either have a universe with only time and no space or a universe with space and no time. In one case you have space ( and therefore the possibility of stuff) but nothing ever happens ( cause there is no time ) or you have happening, but no stuff for it to happen to. This is a very simple explanation of a proof that already exists and you can easily expand this to include a proof that a 2D universe is impossible as well.

If time was 1 dimension it should be one directional and going backwards in time or time travel to the past is impossible. If space is 1 dimension then there should also be one direction to go and only x coordinate in one direction should exist. But space by it self can not be 1 dimensional it has to have a left, right, up, down, forward and backward definition to be defined as Space. A point in Space has to have x,y,z coordinates to be defined as a point in space even if no time existed. Space and Time exists as definitions we gave to these two to be able to talk about them. Can an unborn baby in the womb of its mother comprehend the Universe out side of this Womb or even create definitions to argue things he can not perceive or know about that are out of it's current environment?

I think this analagy works also for the Universe we live in. We can not comprehend the Universe outside the one we live in and that we perceive as reality. When we go to the next world we might be able to understand more of this Universe and the one we will be born in after our physical shedding. It is described as being the same realm as that of a dream where you can see without eyes and hear without ears and smell without a nose and move without using your legs. We develop the concepts in this Physical Universe to be able to use them in the next World/Universe. Just like the baby in the Womb of the mother develops his legs and arms eyes and ears and smell and touch that he does not need yet in the womb but will need when he is born to be able to develop in its new environment. So these discussions are usefull in away to prepare us for the next world but will be completely different from what we can imagine or perceive.



[Edited on 6-30-2010 by Maarschalk]

[ryuu]

ok, think abou it this way, the energy in the string deforms it, then the string's natural property of elasticity cause it to reform back.

[ryuu]

Originally posted by Maarschalk

Originally posted by verbosity

Originally posted by ryuu
ahh, but what about string theory, which you used as an example earlier, strings are one dimensional, and therefore could make up a 1D universe

strings have one spatial dimension but also exist in time and are thus 2D minimum, and it's their vibrations that create the impression of objects at the larger scale and thus would need an extra dimension to 'vibrate' in.

but lets look at 1D you can either have a universe with only time and no space or a universe with space and no time. In one case you have space ( and therefore the possibility of stuff) but nothing ever happens ( cause there is no time ) or you have happening, but no stuff for it to happen to. This is a very simple explanation of a proof that already exists and you can easily expand this to include a proof that a 2D universe is impossible as well.

If time was 1 dimension it should be one directional and going backwards in time or time travel to the past is impossible. If space is 1 dimension then there should also be one direction to go and only x coordinate in one direction should exist. But space by it self can not be 1 dimensional it has to have a left, right, up, down, forward and backward definition to be defined as Space. A point in Space has to have x,y,z coordinates to be defined as a point in space even if no time existed. Space and Time exists as definitions we gave to these two to be able to talk about them. Can an unborn baby in the womb of its mother comprehend the Universe out side of this Womb or even create definitions to argue things he can not perceive or know about that are out of it's current environment?

I think this analagy works also for the Universe we live in. We can not comprehend the Universe outside the one we live in and that we perceive as reality. When we go to the next world we might be able to understand more of this Universe and the one we will be born in after our physical shedding. It is described as being the same realm as that of a dream where you can see without eyes and hear without ears and smell without a nose and move without using your legs. We develop the concepts in this Physical Universe to be able to use them in the next World/Universe. Just like the baby in the Womb of the mother develops his legs and arms eyes and ears and smell and touch that he does not need yet in the womb but will need when he is born to be able to develop in its new environment. So these discussions are usefull in away to prepare us for the next world but will be completely different from what we can imagine or perceive.



[Edited on 6-30-2010 by Maarschalk]

ahh, but that is assuming that this world is merely a staging ground for the next, however, we do not know thatthis is true

[Maarschalk]

If the Creator of us and this Universe tells us this through His Divine Messengers and all His Messengers gives us the same information and guidance which is Universal in this World I have no reason not to believe the Messengers of my Creator since all these Messengers have been created for the purpose of guiding us and educating us and each of them acknowledge the one that came before them and it is the people because of their free will who have rejected these Messengers. Our Creator has given us free will so we can choose and be tested of how we progress as a human species. If we where not given free will then we would be just like robots and would not develop and choose to do things of our own free will. A robot has no free will. It does what it is programmed instructed to do.
The Creator can do with His creatures what ever He pleases and test us however He wants. If He tells us He created us out of Love, you think He would let us come in to this world without guidance and instructions and help? All laws of moral and ethics have come from The Messengers of the Divine Creator. And all Siences and Discoveries have come forth through the influences of these Divine Manifestations of the Creator.....It is people that have and are because of their own free will and want of power and selfishness have corrupted and are still corrupting and are using religion to confuse, corrupt and mislead under the coverage of religion the people of this world.

[ryuu]

ok, were getting into the realm of religion here, i'm stepping out

[Maarschalk]

Since when is Religion different from what you believe. What you believe what ever that is is your Religion. This threads Topic is Abstracts and all our beliefs are abstracts.......and is part of this Universe.....

[ryuu]

the diference is people kill over religion, when it's simply a personalbelief it's harder to find an arms dealer

[Maarschalk]

People kill also over personal beliefs and the coruption starts with a personal beliefs of a dictator or leader who lusts for power and selfishness and uses and corupts religion for that purpose..... None of the True Messengers of the Major Religions ever advocated violence and war and killing. They actually forbid killing in the name of religion. It was only allowed in the past to defend ones self if ones life was threathend. If it was not for these Divine Messengers than there would be no laws at all and all and any one could kill any one without concequences to get what they want. One of the First laws brought forth by one of the Devine Messengers was the Command or law: "Thou shalt not Kill" And yet People ignored the Messenger and killed anyway because of their personal belief and blamed the Messenger anyway and persecuted them and slanderd them.....More harm has come from personal beliefs of people then from the True Manifestations of our Divine Creator. And all these Messengers have been persecuted, slandered, humiliated, crucified, poisoned, killed and murdered by peoples personal believe......So who do I believe? My own eyes, my own ears, my own heart to investigate the truth for myself and not what other peoples personal beliefs are. I rather invest my time in investigating the truths to the claims of the True Manifestations of my Creator......;);););)

[Edited on 6-30-2010 by Maarschalk]

[Marvin]

Originally posted by Maarschalk

None of the True Messengers of the Major Religions ever advocated violence and war and killing.

Wikipedia: In Medina, Muhammad united the conflicting tribes, and after eight years of fighting with the Meccan tribes, his followers, who by then had grown to 10,000, conquered Mecca.

[verbosity]

Originally posted by Maarschalk
I rather invest my time in investigating the truths to the claims of the True Manifestations of my Creator......;);););)

[Edited on 6-30-2010 by Maarschalk]

I believe the creator has manifested his children in order to lead humanity to salvation. Unfortunately instead we eat them all .

I for one will no longer tolerate this! Death to the marshmallow eating infidel !!!

" If I'm going to have a past, I'd prefer it to be multiple choice" - The Joker

[Edited on 7-1-2010 by verbosity]

[Ravenfeeder]

Originally posted by Maarschalk
People kill also over personal beliefs and the coruption starts with a personal beliefs of a dictator or leader who lusts for power and selfishness and uses and corupts religion for that purpose..... None of the True Messengers of the Major Religions ever advocated violence and war and killing. They actually forbid killing in the name of religion. It was only allowed in the past to defend ones self if ones life was threathend. If it was not for these Divine Messengers than there would be no laws at all and all and any one could kill any one without concequences to get what they want. One of the First laws brought forth by one of the Devine Messengers was the Command or law: "Thou shalt not Kill" And yet People ignored the Messenger and killed anyway because of their personal belief and blamed the Messenger anyway and persecuted them and slanderd them.....More harm has come from personal beliefs of people then from the True Manifestations of our Divine Creator. And all these Messengers have been persecuted, slandered, humiliated, crucified, poisoned, killed and murdered by peoples personal believe......So who do I believe? My own eyes, my own ears, my own heart to investigate the truth for myself and not what other peoples personal beliefs are. I rather invest my time in investigating the truths to the claims of the True Manifestations of my Creator......;);););)

[Edited on 6-30-2010 by Maarschalk]

Nice to see that someone still respects the laws of Hammurabi!

[Maarschalk]

Hammurabi was a Mesopotamian King and is not considered a True Manifestation of our Divine Creator all though many of his laws are derived from them.....

[tha_rami]

Originally posted by Marvin

Originally posted by Maarschalk

None of the True Messengers of the Major Religions ever advocated violence and war and killing.

Wikipedia: In Medina, Muhammad united the conflicting tribes, and after eight years of fighting with the Meccan tribes, his followers, who by then had grown to 10,000, conquered Mecca.

That does not make it true that he advocated violence, war and killing. Muhammed advocated peace and cooperation, but not to the extent that 'if one slaps you, turn your other cheek'.

Muslims are not to kill anyone for any goal unless in their defense or when retaking stolen ground (ie. the struggle in Palestine would be considered 'holy' by those terms).

As muslim myself, however, I denounce all use of violence for whatever purpose. With the exception of shooting people a second exhaust in videogames.

[Maarschalk]

Originally posted by Marvin

Originally posted by Maarschalk

None of the True Messengers of the Major Religions ever advocated violence and war and killing.

Wikipedia: In Medina, Muhammad united the conflicting tribes, and after eight years of fighting with the Meccan tribes, his followers, who by then had grown to 10,000, conquered Mecca.

Tha_Rami beat me to it.....LOL....One of Muhammads achievement was the creation of nations which started with uniting conflicting tribes who where already killing each other and he managed to put a stop to this and unite them and form the first nation, and nation building is the first building block of unity for a World Peace. Mohamed never advocated war or violence. It is the Moslim leaders after Muhammads Death who started to give their own interpertation of the meaning of Muhammads message and started to conflict each other hence you got the Sunnis and the Shi'ites fighting over who is the rightfull and the true leader of Islam after Muhammads Death. Muhammad wanted to apoint His succesor and asked for him on His deathbed but some religious Imams who where after the power for them selves prevented the person to be apointed to aproach Muhammads death bed. And that is when the confusion and division in Islam started. Muhammad is one of the True Messengers of our Creator. But is not the Last in succesion of Many more to come as promised even by Muhammad himself to guide us towards the Promise of World Peace which because of the Islamic leaders corruption at Muhammads death Islam failed to promote and now we are involved or at war with most Islamic nations that had to do with this corruption. This is not what Muhammad wanted or advocated but a result of human ignorance and failure to accept The Messengers of our Creator. And History keeps repeating its self. Every time a New Messenger is send into this world they get persecuted, humiliated, crucified, killed make to roam in dessert for 40 years by the leaders of their time...We always blame the Messenger and shoot him......except for a handfull that investigate the thruth for themselves with their own eyes and ears and not thru those of others......

[Edited on 7-1-2010 by Maarschalk]

[Marvin]

Peace be upon you ... one way or the other.

[Maarschalk]

LOL....Thanks...Marv......:):):):):)

[Nigel_Strange]

I am a messenger of the divine. There is no way for you to know if this is true or not. That goes for all previous manifestations.

There are four levels of reality:

1. Personal reality.
2. Social reality.
3. Physical reality.
4. Metaphysical reality.

Level 1, the personal reality is a kind of microcosm that is built up over a lifetime and is a reflection of levels 2, 3, and 4.

Level 2 includes all the second-hand knowledge that you gain from others. This is the public world-view. It includes both truth and falsehood.

Level 3 is always true: that which exists is true, that which does not exist is not true. Level 3 is discoverable.

Level 4 is the unknown and possibly unknowable. Level 4 is about why the universe exists, what lies outside of it both spatially and temporally. There is no way to find out level 4 information from levels 2 and 3. The only way you can gain knowledge of level 4 is for level 4 to reach into the universe and touch you personally.

Unfortunately, many people who believe they have been touched by level 4 are or were insane. For everyone else, there is no way to tell if someone is touched by level 4 or not. Even someone who is touched by level 4 cannot explain communicate this information because it is beyond language to communicate and beyond physicality.

[Maarschalk]

This is to a certain extent true. If you claim to be a Messenger of the Divine Creator you would know and Would know the Truth about the past and what is going to happen in the future. My understanding of investigating the claims of the Divine Messengers is that these Divine Mesengers are not merely touched by this fourth level but are specialy created and pre ordained by our Creator. And the purpose of these Messengers is to educate us and teach us about our purpose and about our Creator they are the only source through which we can come to understand and know our Creator in this World. The teacher in kindergarden knows what you need to learn and knows what you are going to learn in first, second, third.....etc grade and knows the Teachers of these grades in the same school. This World Planet Earth is our school our preperation for the next World. The Teachers are the Divine Messengers to educate us...they bring the laws and moral standards and advances in arts and siences through their wisdom.
All Mesengers of the past have told us the same truths about our Creator and none differ in their teachings about our Creator. They all fortold the coming and time of the next Messenger/Teacher according to our capacity and development and when we will be ready for the next grade. And all these Divine Messengers/Teachers base their claims on these phrophecies and proofs they supose to bring to proof their claim. When Moses was born there was a prophecy that would threaten the Kings Power so the King send out his army to kill all the first born children in His Kingdom and the prophecy gives many more details about what is to come to pass. And Moses ends up growing up in the Kings own palace as prophecised. Christ's coming was also Phrophesiced in detail and Christ made claims and fullfiled what was suppose to happen and brought His teachings to us as He was ment to do. Muhammeds claims are also based on phrophecies from the bible that is why Muslims accept Moses, Christ as Messengers of or Creator and that is Why Moses is part of the Old testament. It is leaders who are out for their own lust for power to control other people that mislead others and refuse to accept the teachings because of their pride and arrogance.
These Prophecies and proofs that a Messenger or Teacher of the Divine Creator brings are Tests for us to see how much we have developed and learned in the past. The ones who investigate the truth and claims of These Divine Messengers with their own eyes and ears and not through self made religious leaders will be able to distinguish truth from falsehood if they learned their lessons from the past. If you refuse to accept a Divine Messenger without investigation because of your own pride and arrogance and refuse to go to school and learn or simply refuse to learn the truth then you will never be able to know the difference like you said Nigel to distinguish the True Messengers from the false self made self proclaimed ones and will always be kept in the dark and left confused. Christ's nearness and coming was foretold by John the Baptist and John the Baptist was beheaded for this. Because the Selfish daughter of the King could not Seduce him and corrupt him so she had Him beheaded......There are lots of stories like this about the lust for power and corruption that eventually leads to the downfall of great Kings, Leaders and Rulers that did not want to go to school and blamed and persecuted these Divine Teachers for their own doing in their own demise of their Kingdom. The Great Kings and Rulers that Did accept the Divine Teachers became Great and Wise Rulers and we have many of them also mentioned in the past like King Salomon, King David....etc....

[Edited on 7-2-2010 by Maarschalk]

[MMaggio]

If you think I'm going to read all that, you're NUTS!

[Maarschalk]

I have no selfish motive for doing this other then to help people for their own sake and sanity even if that makes me a Nut case.....as many already are suggesting I'm....I just whish the Best for everyone for their own sake....I have nothing to gain from making myself look like a fool although I do make a fool out of myself a lot on this forum but that is just to bring some joy and laughter, at my humble expense and sometimes at the expense of other characters on this forum, but that is just their role play character and not the real person behind the character, to this community.....Yes, my Character Maarschalk is most of the time Nuts...... I will relatively accept that......LOL....:P:P:P:P

[Marvin]

Originally posted by MMaggio

If you think I'm going to read all that, you're NUTS!