Deadzone only set from in game?

Accountant · Post by **Accountant** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:53 am

I just became the proud new owner of a Saitek Cyborg X. I have been playing around with it, trying to get good with it (I'm better with a mouse, it would seem). When I first tried EL with it the stick would drift slightly. I fixed this by changing the deadzone in game to 1. This solved the problem, but created another one. The stick is slightly too unresponsive to my commands. With the ingame deadzone at 1, I have to move the stick too far in all axis in order to get movement, which translates to rough, jerky flying. I tried setting the deadzone using the options dialog from control panel, and while this changed the behavior of the movement of the stick, it did not eliminate the drift. Is there a way I can set the deadzone externally of the program so that I get rid of drift but still retain sensitive movement?

-Accountant

Post by **Vice** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:06 am

The X52 has a deadzone option in its configuration menu, but I don't know if that same option is available with the Cyborg. Someone else that owns one might be able to say for sure. Another step you might want to try is changing the sensitivity setting to 'High' if it's set lower.

Accountant · Post by **Accountant** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:13 am

I do have the sensitivity set to high in game. When I open up the Game Controllers icon in control panel and click on the Cyborg X, the page that comes up has a deadzones tab at the top where I can supposedly set deadzones for the stick. Doing this does not seem to eliminate the drift in EL, however. It does have an affect in EL, because if I change the deadzone to maximum, I have to use full stick deflection to have a change in the game. However, it does not eliminate the drift. The only thing so far that seems to eliminate the drift is changing the deadzone in the game, but this is too much for me.

Seems bizarre to me...maybe I'm doing something wrong...

-Accountant

Post by **Vice** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:12 am

Almost sounds like a non-linear input problem, like the stick is not sending consistent signals throughout the movement range. iirc, setting the deadzone in the game to '1' essentially crops the range of motion by about 10-20%, which provides the wider deadzone. What kind of changes occur when you change the sensitivity to Medium and Low? And out of curiousity, what kind of framerate do you average?

Accountant · Post by **Accountant** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:17 am

Changing the sensitivity to medium and low did not do much except make the stick slightly less sensitive. It did not affect drift in any noticeable way. I am not even sure how much it really affected sensitivity. It wasn't much, if it did.

My framerate usually averages between 25 to 30 frames per second.

You said the stick may not be sending consistent signals throughout the movement range. Could this potentially be an issue related to the USB connection? I have had trouble occasionally with the USB ports on my computer. Something that happens is that I will lose my mouse if I nudge the connector slightly.

-Accountant

Post by **Vice** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:39 am

Not sure, but I doubt that would cause such a difference after just changing a setting. Changing the USB port might be a quick way to make sure though. Have you updated the drivers for the stick since you got it?

Accountant · Post by **Accountant** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:06 am

Yeah, I have the most recent drivers

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:58 am

Do you have straff button settings set on your stick? maybe the straffs are not centered causing the drift!

Accountant · Post by **Accountant** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:44 am

No, the strafe used to be the hat switch. I changed that so that I am still using keyboard for strafe.

I do not think the non-centeredness is being caused by strafe, because the ship both banks left and pitches down on me. It also might yaw left, too, but I can't really tell for sure.

-Accountant

Post by **Vice** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:17 am

Could be something wrong with the stick also I guess. What would you estimate the range of motion is, in percentage, that you have to move the stick to get any kind of roll/pitch/yaw response from it with the deadzone setting of 1?

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:49 pm

Originally posted by Accountant

Could this potentially be an issue related to the USB connection? I have had trouble occasionally with the USB ports on my computer. Something that happens is that I will lose my mouse if I nudge the connector slightly.

Did you try a different port? One where the mouse doesn't jump around?

I, too, have a similar joystick from the same company and, if the stick wanders (which it tends to do after booting up the computer), I do a "control check" (rotating the stick full left, full right, and around all four corners) while in game.

But a borked USB port is probably your real problem.

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:18 pm

Best thing to do is check stick in "properties". If it drifts there, the prob is with the stick.

Accountant · Post by **Accountant** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:05 am

@Vice
Pitching right and yawing right require a little more movement than left, which I suppose makes sense. I would say on average it requires a movement equal to about 5% of the total range of the stick to get out of the deadzone.

@Marvin
Yes, I tried a different USB port, and the problem still persists.

@MM
No drift in properties. The stick appears to be perfectly centered with no wobble or drift.

Something stick related just happened while flying on B5 today. As I was maneuvering for a second fight with Gorf, I got a BSOD. This has happened only once before, and it happened after I got my joystick. I think the BSOD is somehow related to the joystick, but I am not sure how. I am just going to throw whatever information I can think of here and hope it means something to someone.

The BSOD error was BAD_POOL_CALL
Here is my device manager relating to the USB ports and the joystick:

A couple of things that confused me:
Why are there 2 entries for Cyborg X, one USB and one HID?
My computer has 4 USB ports. Before this screenshot was taken, there were 7 USB Root Hub entries in Device Manager. I deleted 3. I didn't do anything to the Universal Host Controller entries, but why are there more entries than USB ports on my computer?

Is there a test to see if I have a bad USB port?

-Accountant

EDIT:
Oh yeah, I am using a Dell Vostro 1500 laptop. I think power management is set properly, but cannot be 100% sure on that.

EDIT 2:
Make that the third BSOD...

[Edited on 8-18-2009 by Accountant]

Post by **Vice** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:51 am

5% is within the expect range. But what you are saying is that when you move it that 5%, at which point a response is achieved, the input is 'pegged' and the ships turns rapidly while you are still only holding that 5% movement?

A BSOD can be an indicator of a hardware problem or something with drivers. A HID and USB listing for your controller is normal. But you may have some other issue, such as an IRQ conflict or something. One of the first steps I'd suggest is rolling back the driver for the Cyborg to an earlier version. Test and see if the problem remains. If it does, uninstall the device completely in the device manager. Unplug it, reboot your system, then plug it into a different USB port you don't mind using, let Windows install the driver automatically, then once it's ready, launch the game and test again. If it BSOD's again, unplug all other USB devices except for the stick, then test again.

Accountant · Post by **Accountant** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:26 pm

Yeah, it seems the input is somewhat "pegged". When I have ingame deadzone set at 0, the stick works very smoothly, like I would expect it to (minus the drifting, of course). When deadzone is set to 1, it seems that once I get out of the dead zone, the movement jumps to a certain rate. It makes it difficult to be precise as a result.

I uninstalled the stick, rebooted, and reinstalled it. I have not had a BSOD yet, but I only played for about 20 minutes or so. I will be doing some more testing today to see what I get.

Thanks for the help.

-Accountant

EDIT:
Scratch that, had a BSOD just after I launched Legends.

[Edited on 8-20-2009 by Accountant]

Accountant · Post by **Accountant** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:58 pm

Ok, I want to resurrect this thread momentarily. I am home for Christmas Break and hooked up my X45 to try it out on Legends. I installed the latest drivers, calibrated the stick, restarted the computer, and launched EL. When I entered the game the ship immediately started spinning. I checked out the control configuration ingame and got a discrepancy from control panel. See the image below:

Notice how in the game the axis are all skewed to one side, but in control panel everything is dead center. Are the latest drivers from Saitek not compatible with EL, or is something else going on?

-Accountant

ryuu · Post by **ryuu** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:18 pm

i think either el is misreading the signals from the stick, or for some reason it is receiving an uncalibrated signal...

Accountant · Post by **Accountant** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:50 pm

I did a reboot just to check it. Same result.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:07 pm

I get occasional drifting specialy in the middle of heavy combat with setting deadzone to 1 and sensitivity to medium in game. If I set the sensitivity to high and deadzone to 0 the drift happens more frequent. And this is with a Saitek X52. And most of the times it happens when I get hit hard in combat. Really weird sometimes as if something in the game takes control of my joystick almost as if signal from stick freezes in memory somehow.
The only thing I can do is unplug the stick and replug to reset the settings.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:31 pm

Originally posted by Eclipse
@ Accountant
Maybe try older drivers, maybe Vice can shed some more light on the issue.

@ Maarschalk
I see you have an X52 that was wired wrong. I recently opened the base on my cyclic and had to reorganize the wiring to fix the issue you have, one of the pots wiring groups had a bad layout. Since restructuring the wiring layout I haven't had any "lost calibration" issues with my X52.

Is this rewiring hard to do ? can you do it just using a regular soldering iron or do you need special tools ?

Thanks for the info Eclipse.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:39 pm

Can you U2U me which wires and how many needs to be rerouted ? or post it here, might be helpfull for other users as well.

I really hope I can fix this. It has been very annoying at times.

Thanks Eclipse.

warsign · Post by **warsign** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:37 pm

What are they talking about?
You guys so talented, seems Floyd rose bridge adjustment

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:38 pm

Originally posted by Eclipse
The two potentiometer wiring bundles are easy to locate, they are attached to the stick's gimbal brackets. The wiring set that gives the most trouble is the one that crosses the wires from the three toggles in the base, rerouting that wire set is usually enough to fix this issue. Also remember that the X52 requires a powered USB hub to function properly.

By rerouting do you mean physically moving the wires around because they are in the way and the problem is mechanicall or do you mean rerouting the wires to different connectors because the problem is electrical ?

To me it sounds like a mechanical issue I'm I correct ?

Thanks for the info so far.

Post by **Vice** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:53 pm

That is strange, not a problem I'm familiar with. Here are a few things to try:

- After you launch the game, enter the configuration menu. Unplug only the stick device from the throttle (leaving the USB pluggged in). Wait about 5 seconds, then plug the stick back in. Analyze any changes.

- With the game running and the configuration menu open, unplug the USB itself. Wait about 5 seconds, then plug the USB back in. Analyze any changes.

- Try rolling back the driver to an earlier version.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:30 pm

You mean when the stick is acting up ?

I tried the above steps when the stick was acting normal. No changes to the configuration noticed.