It'd be nice to nerf the "jump into station" ability

[Keeper1st]

What has disappointed me most about Evochron, other than things like deliver-fuel or clean-satellite missions being way too easy because the targets aren't drifting through space -- just sitting there for us to fly in a straight line to them -- is how we can simply jump straight into the docking bay of any station or directly into a jump gate.

Seems to me that that should be considered quite the navigation hazard! It would be awesome if, when you place your jump marker on a station or gate and jump, the game randomly offsets the X/Y/Z coordinates a bit, placing you some distance away, not pointed directly into the bay/gate. While that would make it take longer to complete missions and so forth (though it would reduce the time spent getting the right orientation before jumping, as that no longer would be necessary), the positive trade-off in my opinion is that you'd actually have to fly your ship for a change. The flying in Evochron is the best part; it's a shame we're not required to do it more often.

[Vice]

Ironically perhaps, I still receive a significant level of 'too difficult' and 'too complicated' reports from players about docking. Some indicate that having to line up with docking indicators, levelling pitch, and flying into entrances is too much, so they tend to jump to a nearby location and fly in manually. If the game randomly placed their arrival, I'd imagine confusion and frustration would rise significantly as they'd wonder why the jump computer didn't put them where they told it to go.

The open and free 'any point' precise nature of the navigation system allows a player to apply any type of docking pattern or maneuver they might want to require of themselves without forcing it on other players. Are there other ways you'd envision adding to the delay and complexity of docking without imposing it or forcing it on other players? Or would it be something you would want forced on all other players as well?

[Marvin]

Adding my two cents (which would be multiplied a thousandfold in changes to the programming), pilots could be required to request docking and then dock only at the directed bay. Right now, pilots are given a bay number when departing but there is no fine when they violate that direction and leave via another gate. Ergo, gate assignments, coming and going, would likely complicate and delay operations around a station. Then the only question would be: what happens when an AI is blocking your assigned gate?

[Vice]

That would certainly limit/restrict the player's required course of action, although they could still get it 'right' and get the correct gate upon arrival. If the main goal is to force delays to slow the pace of the game, there are probably several ways to do that. But it would also further complicate a process some have indicated they wouldn't want complicated further. So forcing it on other players (especially since it can already be self-imposed) would still be a consideration.

[matchbox2022]

Adding my two cents (which would be multiplied a thousandfold in changes to the programming), pilots could be required to request docking and then dock only at the directed bay. Right now, pilots are given a bay number when departing but there is no fine when they violate that direction and leave via another gate. Ergo, gate assignments, coming and going, would likely complicate and delay operations around a station. Then the only question would be: what happens when an AI is blocking your assigned gate?

That's a fantastic solution.
But even if you didn't want to have a need to request docking, it could be a little more like ATC in real life.

You might not need to "request" anything (though realistic, just adds complexity and confusion for new players), if you're within range, say 3000 the request could just be automated.
If the station is busy, you could be told to hold position, then after a delay of 10 or so seconds, be cleared to dock at Gate X
Same with leaving, leave through Gate X when cleared to (only if there's considerable AI traffic)

I think though that making a clearance at a specific gate and a fine if you ignore it is a cool concept and might not be hard to implement.
Add to that if maybe you were also told to "shutdown your engines" on entering the station itself (not docked) or reactor and had a key that did that (maybe just inertial mode) and a fine for that as well for "compromising safety" might be neat. Since if people want more challenge and to not pay fees they'd need to fly to the correct gate when cleared, then "coast" inside using their inertial thrusters.

That'd make it so anyone wanting to do quick instant dock jumps as per usual in the game still could and deal with a small fee if they "weren't first in line" or "used the wrong gate" as the only repercussion. For anyone with millions it's a "so what", and for new players it's a bigger deal and they might get more immersion.

There wouldn't need to be a whole lot added or changed in those cases if the alerts were kept to text only as opposed to needing to add actual voice tracks.

Also, doesn't having a nav officer or nav damage influence your ability to have a precise or safe "jump" anyways?

I'd love to help / try but my skills are limited to using batch and the textfile player log, which can't influence that much really (as opposed to accessing the game in memory directly)..... I'd only be able to blow people up at best.....that's more than a slap on the wrist for ignoring ATC.

[Marvin]

Actually, the reason I mentioned it is as a reaction to finding another ship blocking my assigned gate when I'm departing a station. It doesn't happen often but, when it does, I think, "This guy needs to be fined." Of course, I, too, sometimes depart by a different gate ... especially when a number of enemy ships lurk outside my assigned gate, waiting to blow me up.

[Keeper1st]

As ever, I imagine the "place ship slightly away from station/dock" routine would be an option that players/servers could choose to have or not to have.

[Marvin]

Oddly enough, this already happens if you need to jump back to the station while in the middle of an unfinished mission.

[norc]

I have to say I am a big fan of ED's docking system, you request to dock and if the station has an available pad you are granted but a timer starts to which you have to be docked before you get fined.

The same when leaving, you need to getup and get out.

It's probably one of the most fun parts of the game as dull as that sounds... I even better with a docking computer on board for those lazy moments lol

But yeah, force us to dock at the right number and fine us if we don't sounds great to me... should also issue a penalty for not leaving the docking bay when you unlock after a period of time.

[DaveK]

Adding my two cents (which would be multiplied a thousandfold in changes to the programming), pilots could be required to request docking and then dock only at the directed bay. Right now, pilots are given a bay number when departing but there is no fine when they violate that direction and leave via another gate. Ergo, gate assignments, coming and going, would likely complicate and delay operations around a station. Then the only question would be: what happens when an AI is blocking your assigned gate?

That's a fantastic solution.
But even if you didn't want to have a need to request docking, it could be a little more like ATC in real life.

You might not need to "request" anything (though realistic, just adds complexity and confusion for new players), if you're within range, say 3000 the request could just be automated.
If the station is busy, you could be told to hold position, then after a delay of 10 or so seconds, be cleared to dock at Gate X
Same with leaving, leave through Gate X when cleared to (only if there's considerable AI traffic)

I think though that making a clearance at a specific gate and a fine if you ignore it is a cool concept and might not be hard to implement.
Add to that if maybe you were also told to "shutdown your engines" on entering the station itself (not docked) or reactor and had a key that did that (maybe just inertial mode) and a fine for that as well for "compromising safety" might be neat. Since if people want more challenge and to not pay fees they'd need to fly to the correct gate when cleared, then "coast" inside using their inertial thrusters.

That'd make it so anyone wanting to do quick instant dock jumps as per usual in the game still could and deal with a small fee if they "weren't first in line" or "used the wrong gate" as the only repercussion. For anyone with millions it's a "so what", and for new players it's a bigger deal and they might get more immersion.

There wouldn't need to be a whole lot added or changed in those cases if the alerts were kept to text only as opposed to needing to add actual voice tracks.

Also, doesn't having a nav officer or nav damage influence your ability to have a precise or safe "jump" anyways?

I'd love to help / try but my skills are limited to using batch and the textfile player log, which can't influence that much really (as opposed to accessing the game in memory directly)..... I'd only be able to blow people up at best.....that's more than a slap on the wrist for ignoring ATC.

If it's going to add immersion then we will need far more station traffic. Being told that you have to wait for a slot when there's only a couple of other ships around and none near the tunnel you're near would kill immersion and I suspect just frustrate many pilots. Simillary if the entrance you are directed to makes you pass empty tunnels there will be grumbles about incompetent STC's!

There is so much to do in the game that any deliberate delays would have to feel fair, proper and natural.

The idea of fining pilots who disobey STC directions sounds good. It should be easy to fine-tune the fines so that it wouldn't routinely be ignored. I guess it would depend on the coding changes required to monitor all the player ships - we don't need to know whether NPC are obeying the rules or not - to determine whether it's a worthwhile option. If you really want to 'go to town' keep a tally of traffic offenses and (for example) give a big fine after 5 strikes, a very big fine after 10 and impound the players ship for a substantial time after 20! There's also the possibility of a station ban after a goodly number of infractions - you might have to build you own station in smaller systems to have somewhere to dock and trade!

[Marvin]

After a contract is completed in MP, we (IMG) normally call out who will be docking where. Otherwise we often end up trying to dock at the same bay. That's the way we work it in Evochron. Before that, Denny and I played a game called (IIRC) Starshatter where you could only dock at planetary stations and, since there was only one way to approach and land, you were assigned a position in line. That's the way you did it in that game. In E: D you are assigned a landing pad and a time to get to it. If you take too long or land in the wrong place, you are either fined or are blown away.

I think some people decide on which game they want to play based on the mechanics of the game in its current state. Each game is different and there is no game that I know of where all the stuff I like is available. Evochron has, for me, the best kind of inertial flight. And, when it comes to E: D, I really, really miss the galactic compass on my Legacy ship's HUD. Docking has never been an immersion-killer for me, especially after the docking bay from Legends was given a major improvement in Mercenary and Legacy.

So, I can live with the occasional obtrusively wayward AI ship trying to block my exit route. It's still easier than getting out of the Walmart parking lot.

[Vice]

There are indeed a lot of different approaches to this and Evochron's design is one of facilitating freely open and available docking, even with quite a bit of traffic around. That is, rather than have multiple docking points requiring all traffic to be funneled through only one restricted entrance or something, the game provides more entrances to dock with along with a 360 degree docking region in the middle. Pacing and efficiency being key objectives as with other elements in the game.

One change I am starting to plan for is to modify the 'Station' button in the local points of interest menu so that it lets the player arrive near the station rather than directly inside it (much like how the 'Planet' and 'Moon' buttons work now) to allow the player to manually navigate and fly into a docking entrance. This will be a step in the direction this thread has indicated (potentially facilitating further changes) while also allowing players the ability to continue to perform high speed/emergency docking maneuvers as many seem to enjoy doing now.

[Marvin]

Yeah, especially when in Vonarion space, being chased by a horde of Vonari fighters.

[DaveK]

Sounds like a good compromise ... with potential for evolving as and if necessary.

[Vice]

Testing has begun with a prototype optional enforced docking system that requires following directives from the dockmaster for arrivals and departures. I'm in the process of collecting feedback and modifying the system as it progresses to accommodate design goals and requests where feasible/practical/relevant. If you would like to try the test builds as they become available to provide feedback before a possible official update (which may include such changes), feel free to contact me via e-mail for details (starwraith.com > contact).

Edit 04-08-19: The update is now live with the option to enable fines for violating docking directives, additional text references for directives, docking lights aligned with directed entrance, and local points of interest menu updated to allow for jumps near stations to provide time to abide by docking directives.

[frontier204]

I roleplay as a parking lot menace that get fined a lot The system makes for a good laugh "I'm turning in 250 units of gold so you can have 5 for my laziness".

I'm still trying to work out the angle, but it looks like it's either a bug or another rule in place. If you jump pitched down, such that your ship crashes into the top part of the station (the top as in the half of the station that you can't directly build a module to attach), you get fined as you peel your ship off of the station's exterior and narrowly skim the top of one of the docking ports. Additionally, there's some combination of either engine choice or jump exit velocity where you can have it timed just right, so the ship is just at the threshold of being fined and is only fined if you smashed into departing traffic. My Falcon frame in Emerald station gets the most fines (about half the time, because the ship jumps in before a docking directive is even sent out), whereas the starter ship or Osprey with the second cheapest engine and the rest of the assembly placed into the wing system / composite armor never got fines.

[Vice]

The former is part of the intended fine potential. Getting close enough to scrape or otherwise approach at point blank range without following the entrance directive is grounds for a fine. Sneaking through fast enough can be possible with certain speed capabilities and arrival routes, although fines will also not apply under other conditions (ie wealth).