Pvp Tournament

-splosives- · Post by **-splosives-** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:27 pm

I've done some really nice team battles with Hawkeye, Skyking and Flash. We didn't have lag issues and it was great fun.

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:29 pm

I'd like to try setting up two trade stations, three or four star systems apart ... then having each team defend their own while attempting to destroy the other team's station. Or, if that's too complicated, just one side attack and the other side defend.

Edit: No respawning.

[Edited on 9-6-2012 by Marvin]

Spencer · Post by **Spencer** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:29 pm

I like what Marvin said. The tactics would be fun, because you would have to see who would carry the detonators, and who would carry missiles. One idea would be to jumble the teams up every round, and give ten points to each player on the winning team. After a few rounds, we would have a winner. Or, for even more chaos, we could have three teams play at once. Teams of 3-4 I think. And, guys, keep in mind this tournament is still in the idea stage. Don't go throwing together teams or tactics yet. To address the time-zone problem, we could do it on weekends, so people with jobs or school can still do it. Some people would just have to stay up late.

Star King · Post by **Star King** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:39 pm

Dear Seejay,

I like you would love to see more people playing. Conflict and wars would be all around us and excitement would bring more fun into this game. Fighting AI's all the time is boring or hunting for stuff.

Fortunately we have our nightly fight club guys for our PvP battles, which are very competitive and fun. Again if anyone is bored please come to our nightly PvP Jousts an experience the fun.

I would love to see a structured dedicated PvP server option without AI.
Marvin's idea is a good one but how long would it take to set-up his concept. I believe the player limitations of this game keeps the masses from playing.

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:53 pm

The ultimate (imho) setup would require Vice's skills and hard work.

- It would be an ongoing war between "Red" and "Blue", even if no human players are online.
- When logging on you'll have to chose what side to play on.
- When humans are online, they "help" the ongoing AI war.
- Systems and fronts will shift constantly depending on the fights.
- It could depend on how many kills, destructed / build stations that has been done in 24hrs.
- The System will re-calculate and change "frontlines" accordingly.

This way it really doesn't matter if you're alone (human) or many humans out there. There would still be
a conflict to join and fight in. This might even draw more people in there.

As I said, this is not easy and would require Vice's input and skills if it's even possible, but hey, you can't
blame an old fart for dreaming right ;-)

Star King · Post by **Star King** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:48 pm

WOW! Very interesting concept!!!!! Genuis! My only thing once you go blue you stay blue! Once you go red you stay red until the war is won.

Capt_Caveman · Post by **Capt_Caveman** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:36 pm

once you go blue you never go back lol

Spencer · Post by **Spencer** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:02 pm

Ok, this thread has had some wonderful ideas, and I have finally decided. Here are the rules:

-The tournament will take place on weekends, to help with the time-zone problems.
-Each match of the tournament will be 4 on 4. You may use gunners, but that person still takes up a team slot.
-The may be only ONE person from each clan on a team. If you are listed as in a clan somewhere on the forums, it still counts whether you wear your tag or not.
-Each match will be best 2/3, unless both teams can agree on something else.
-The tournament will be recorded.
-The lower ranking team will chose the venue for the fight (ie on a planet, close to a black hole, or in their favorite system).
-After there is only one team remaining, that team will then split up, and joust to see who is the Ultimate Pilot!

Everyone should create a thread and tag for their team. I need a list of all the teams, so please refrain from posting on this thread again until you have one. Also, who would be against the idea of me flying in the tournament? I just need opinions on that.

For SeeJay: I wish to leave HB, but I will always be friendly to you and your clan, because of your welcome.

KingArthur · Post by **KingArthur** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:42 pm

The COMBAT ALONE Would Be MY REWARD

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:07 am

When speaking of Combat and competitions.

Just "re-found" and viewed this movie created by Sinbad when we had the Cavefight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5XgjUhOB_8

That was so much fun!

He is a very daring and brave action-reporter and got caught in crossfire a few times!:P

Spencer · Post by **Spencer** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:17 pm

Yeah I watched that, it was awesome. How did Maars get you through the wall?

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:26 pm

He was inside the walls. (bug). Fixed now!

Pretty hard to get him there LOL.

EN4CER · Post by **EN4CER** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:49 pm

The problem with big battles is getting everyone together. What incentive does a pilot have to PvP? Right now the only incentive is clans. If we had an incentive to fight. Goofy unthought out example would be giving us access to a fulcrum only after killing a player. 1 fulcrum per kill. Now all of the sudden everyone wants to pvp so they can at least have a fulcrum (or whatever item).

That only solves small scale or individual combat. What about large combat? I think EVERYONE wants to see large battles but what can give us that incentive? Here's a neat one: Those capital ship missions where you warp in and you see both sides fighting. Let us pick a side. Now not only do we have a large scale battle but you will have the chance of having actual players fighting against each other and having the opposing goals of destroying the other's capital ship. You've made both the contract and the battle more interesting. Combine the 2 and now you've got half of the server looking for these space battle contracts so they can get access to their fulcrum

Currently there's only system wide conquest via contracts. A little bit of innovation in the contracts and their system of reward could possibly solve both of the pvp woes at once.

[Edited on 9-12-2012 by EN4CER]

[Edited on 9-12-2012 by EN4CER]

Nubarus · Post by **Nubarus** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:32 pm

From post: 144935, Topic: tid=9764, author=EN4CER wrote:Here's a neat one: Those capital ship missions where you warp in and you see both sides fighting. Let us pick a side. Now not only do we have a large scale battle but you will have the chance of having actual players fighting against each other and having the opposing goals of destroying the other's capital ship.

That does sound interesting, but then the capital ships need a major power buff because as they are modelled now I am more afraid to step into dogcrap on my way to the store then taking on a capital ship in EM by myself. And I am not talking about blasting it with a cheesy Fulcrum, just good old fasion guns blazing.

[Edited on 9-13-2012 by Nubarus]

Letoras · Post by **Letoras** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:54 am

From post: 144671, Topic: tid=9764, author=capt_cronic wrote:once you go blue you never go back lol

LOL amigo!!

Kikoni · Post by **Kikoni** » Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:20 pm

From post: 144541, Topic: tid=9764, author=Nubarus wrote:Sorry dude, there is no high level PvP in this game.

The fact that only 1 setup is the way to win shows the lack of high level anything really, it only adds to the boring factor if you ask me.

When I was involved in Freespace 2 Squadwar a big part of the tactics was to find a good ships/weapons setup to throw the other team off their game and find new tactics to crush the enemy.

Here it's pretty 1 or maybe 2 different ships and 1 weapons setup to play "high level" PvP..........................so basicly fiddeling with ships/weapons, what should be a big factor in actual PvP is removed due to lack if diversity in the ships and equipment.

[Edited on 9-6-2012 by Nubarus]

Sorry to quote this so late, but I actually agree with Nubaris here. "high-level" PvP isn't a matter of tactics as much as it is a matter of using those two or three frames to give you the most edge. I wish the PvP-meta-game didn't exist, in many respects. Takes a lot of the diversity and fun out of PvPing, in itself. Now we just use a flarebeam and a fusion laser. Why? because these are proven to be the "optimal" weapons to use in PvP. The sad part is, I believe I've gotten more kills when I wasn't trying to use tactics, and just went with the flow.

Not to say that PvP isn't fun, of course, I love it to death. Especially with the Flash-man and his Leviathan. Now, *that's* a good fight. He's a great pilot

Star King · Post by **Star King** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:12 pm

Dear K,

I hate to burst your bubble but there is very high level PvP played almost everynight.
To make a comment like that means you are either target practice or you never fought a good pilot. Come to SP6 and we will train you to fight.
Some of our PvP battles go for almost an hour. Some a few minutes depending on your stratagy.
This game is a cross between Star Trek and Star Wars.

-splosives- · Post by **-splosives-** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:04 am

I second what starking said, and I would like to add that the fact that you think there's no high level PvP may be caused by the fact that only a few people actually know high level PvP. If you try fighting any of these high skilled pilots, you will notice how much strategy there is in these PvP matches. It took me many hours of practice and thinking to learn all my PvP tricks, and every now and then I still learn some new tactics, but only if I fight the best of the best.

Nubarus · Post by **Nubarus** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:56 am

Looks more like you guys don't really get it. What we are saying is that you need more diversity in the ships and equipment in order to talk about high lvl PvP.

Here it's just 1 ship and 1 set of weapons to pick from or else you are toast. (And before you start moaning about this statement there are your own words, not mine)

As I explained before, in order to make it "high lvl" you need different tools to bring to the fight to make it more interesting and make that part of the strategy and tactics you use to beat your opponents as was the case in Freespace 2 SquadWars.
In that PvP there was no one setup wonder that makes you win battles, there you needed to plan ahead with the ships and weapons you are going to use because you could counter certain ships and weapons with a different ship and weapons to get an advantage, and even then it wasn't even a sure thing to win. It was all about actual teamwork and the setup as a team to defeat your opponents.

I have yet to see actual team vs team fights here though, all I seen so far is "Do you want to duel?" Does it ever get beyond that stage or is it just going to stay Dual Player with Multi Chat instead of Multi Player?

-splosives- · Post by **-splosives-** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:20 am

I've done plenty of free for all matches and 2v2 matches.

As for the diversity in setup, wait for the expansion. I can tell you a lot is going to change.

Post by **Marvin** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:23 pm

From post: 145505, Topic: tid=9764, author=Nubarus wrote:I have yet to see actual team vs team fights here though, all I seen so far is "Do you want to duel?" Does it ever get beyond that stage or is it just going to stay Dual Player with Multi Chat instead of Multi Player?

This is more a problem with the players than with the game. All the necessary elements are there ... you just need somebody to organize team combat. But, for some reason, people resist the idea of combining individual clans to form groups large enough to make for a really interesting combat session. ('Though I would not suggest splitting a clan and spreading its members around to fight each other.)

Nubarus · Post by **Nubarus** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:54 am

From post: 145506, Topic: tid=9764, author=-splosives- wrote: As for the diversity in setup, wait for the expansion. I can tell you a lot is going to change.

It better changes a lot of things, or else the fanbase is never going to get any bigger then the handful it has now.

Compared to other PvP games this one is tiny in comparison, and then I am being polite.

Some other PvP games I play and played are and where a lot more interesting and mainly active.
Like IL2 Sturmovik 1946 for instance, the fans behind the game have made a huge mod for the game and are running a virtual WWII war that is going on 24/7. Everything is worked out in detail by the fans, the game creators are not involved in any of it.
That is true teamwork at hand and nothing is repetitive at all.

That is high lvl PvP at work and I really hope this game will get like that someday.

[Edited on 9-27-2012 by Nubarus]

-splosives- · Post by **-splosives-** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:38 pm

Probably not, because that is not what the game is designed for. The PvP is only a small aspect of this game, so it's probably never going to be as complex as in other games where PvP is more focused on (games like guildwars or starcraft) or the only thing you can do (team fortress, counterstrike, DOTA).
I just generally like the PvP aspect in combination with the rest of the game.

One more thing about metagame: There is always some sort of metagame in any game that involves PvP. Some guy invents a new way of getting better, and all the others imitate him, or adapt, and in the best case, think of a counter to it. When the new strategy has a good counter to it, then this strategy will become obsolete, and new strategies will develop. This iteration will keep on going until somebody has found the ultimate loadout/strategy. Usually this takes a vey long time to develop, and changes everytime an update gets released (for example the MDTS update). When I started, the metagame was completely different from the metagame that we know now (mainly because the MDTS update was just released), and even now some people are finding new ways to effectively fight (even with a civ frame and no shield recharger) and it will probably drastically change in the expansion again. No matter what you do, metagame will always be there, and hopefully it will always keep changing.

[Edited on 9-27-2012 by -splosives-]

Letoras · Post by **Letoras** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:39 pm

Ofcorse let's have in mind that this game is not pvp oriented.

-splosives- · Post by **-splosives-** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:46 pm

From post: 144622, Topic: tid=9764, author=SeeJay wrote:The ultimate (imho) setup would require Vice's skills and hard work.

- It would be an ongoing war between "Red" and "Blue", even if no human players are online.
- When logging on you'll have to chose what side to play on.
- When humans are online, they "help" the ongoing AI war.
- Systems and fronts will shift constantly depending on the fights.
- It could depend on how many kills, destructed / build stations that has been done in 24hrs.
- The System will re-calculate and change "frontlines" accordingly.

This way it really doesn't matter if you're alone (human) or many humans out there. There would still be
a conflict to join and fight in. This might even draw more people in there.

As I said, this is not easy and would require Vice's input and skills if it's even possible, but hey, you can't
blame an old fart for dreaming right ;-)

This is exactly like World versus world battles in Guildwars2, and it's awesome.
It would be really cool to have this in Evochron.