Nuanced game? I can't even find myself!

Post by **Marvin** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:47 am

From post: 135921, Topic: tid=9239, author=ICERAY2000 wrote:I can't use a console device - no way - so would adding a joystick help? Simple one or a flight stick?

Adding a joystick would help 1000% ... or more. Get one with 3 axiis, a throttle ... and as many buttons as you can afford.

Laconis · Post by **Laconis** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:00 am

Just keep trying, when i bought this game I started a military pilot right off the bat. I figured I would jump right into blowing stuff up. That attitude lasted all of 20 seconds after I jumped into a group of reds that proceeded to slaughter me many times over the course of an hour.

I gave up and figured I was done with the game, money wasted, but I could not get it out of my mind. So I came back a couple days later and started a mercenary pilot and the game seemed fantastic. Never turned back since.

So don't give up! This game is fantastic once you get the hang of it!

As a tip I found that you keep the same momentum coming out of a jump as going into the jump. That could be part of your problem. So fly around in inertial mode for awhile and get the hang of momentum, then go back to doing what you need to do. Inertial also saves you fuel like crazy. And autopilot hasn't really helped me all that much outside of multiple jump trips and even then I turn it off a jump away from the target.

Another thing I found is that trying to jump directly into stations in the sapphire system would usually end with me running right into the middle of it instead of coasting smoothly into the landing bay, I think I had to add a hundred to the Y coords until I got out of that system (I could just be misremembering though).

ICERAY2000 · Post by **ICERAY2000** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:33 am

OK, I will dust off my flight controller and see what happens.
That offset for the Y coordinate was mentioned elsewhere, and I was certainly smacking into the belly of that beast, or never closer than under the lip of the blue entry shield thing.

Just as a general comment, I think I put more flying hours into the whole XWing series than any other flight sim, where the emphasis was on nausea and "conical" warfare, so realistic space flight is taking some getting used to. I will try some flying in inertia mode (and that implies there's another one, so I'll try that too - I'm just using defaults right now.
Thanks again for the great comments and ideas!
Pass me that sonic screwdriver, eh?

Nigel_Strange · Post by **Nigel_Strange** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:39 am

Iceray, many of us have played this game since before the game existed (having played its predecessors) so many of us have a lot of experience.

There really is no substitute for repetition. You need to get the feel for how the ship handles one step at a time. The flying tutorial gets you started using inertial drive, the maneuvering thrusters, etc. When you get to the point where you can move, turn, in any direction without thinking about it, then you can go on to the more challenging stuff.

There's no time limit. If you stay in Sapphire, you're relatively safe from enemies, so you can practice navigation skills. Practice jumping into stations for a start. If you can jump straight into a station and straight into a gate, then you have a good start.

Many objects do not appear on your hud or radar. The main reason is to save you from having to futz with the controls. You don't select the station in your radar, but you can see the blue blip, so you always know where it is.

Many MP games are cooperative. I don't usually play MP, but when I have played with this bunch, I have had positive experiences. I have also had very negative experiences in MP.

There are also stories of pilots who have gotten lost in space or run out of fuel. They sign on to MP and ask for help. Sure enough, the other pilots mount a rescue mission to help the pilot out.

As for the point of the game? Well, what's the point of life? You do it because you enjoy it. You enjoy it for different reasons. For some, it is about wealth. For others, combat. For others, exploration. The game doesn't end, so you can do what you want with your time in Evochron. The IMG missions are there to get your feet wet.

ICERAY2000 · Post by **ICERAY2000** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:06 pm

Well Nigel, that's mildly encouraging

I was initially attracted by its complexity; I didn't know everything was complex. I installed a joystick with throttle control and lots of buttons, but was immediately again stopped cold by the configuration screen - a dozen sliders some requiring translation; "horizontal strafe control"?? or, click on one and get several white squares onscreen and get kicked back to the main menu? Or choose a parameter to configure and TWO sliders move at once!!!! What??
Don't get me wrong, I'm willing to overlook flaws in order to enjoy the rest; in Skyrim I have over 400 hours of play, even though they have come up with the worst Bethesda interface ever - stupid basic things that were rules for years suddenly changed, like "A" used to be take all now it's "R" - go figure.
In any other game I can think of, to configure a joystick, you selected it from a list, and you're good to go. I am going to be all day just seeing if the program will recognize it, and then try to use it!

It was funny when you said I'd be safe in Sapphire - I die every time I fly!

I don't need enemies.
If I could summarize my experience so far it would be that I've encountered a game that has a tremendous development history and has apparently lost its view of new players and how alien and frustratingly and unreasonably difficult PLAYING is in the beginning. It is not fun, people.
I have 20 hours in and I've cleaned one array successfully and docked at a station once. That's just not PLAY, that's DRUDGE. My suggestion to the authors would be to either make a video that shows an idiot like me how to do REALLY SIMPLE things, especially with just a mouse and keyboard - it is next to impossible to be successful in the beginning; as a psychologist, I can tell you there is a frustration level that users will not go beyond for FUN. Because of my experiences in Privateer and the like, I am still interested in this game. Again, to the authors, if you could automate the basics, or make them clearer to new players, you would attract and keep more enthusiasts. Again, the navigation video spends three minutes blabbering about controls before navigation (flying) is even started, and then pitiful details on actual flight.
I'm trying very hard, but if this is the average experience, you can't have a lot of long term players - people must come in, look around and leave, after not being able to DO anything. "Vertical strafe control"? That exact phrase gets zero hits in Google! It references (w/out quotes) this game and Freelancer, but that's about it. I honestly do not think I've ever vertically strafed anything in my life!

Oh, and in calibrating the joystick, you only get to choose each thing once, it cycles through a list and THEN shows those white boxes. I'm all for originality, but...
Well, I'll check in later today, hope fully as a real player and a recurring corpse!
Watch you six.

ICERAY2000 · Post by **ICERAY2000** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:34 pm

Well I just lost a very long and detailed post for some unknown reason the browser closed. OK, this is the curse of ICERAY in effect; I obviously cursed someone or wronged someone in my gaming past and now the curse falls back on me. Sorry, just my paranoia bubbling...
The joystick was a fiasco; finally after many attempts, it got configured, but was non-functional. As I hit escape to leave, I saw the button to turn on the joystick - why in the name of All Truth, would I configure a joystick and then NOT use it? Configure AND turn it on? Really?
Then it turned out to be so sensitive and so jerky and the ship would just not settle down and fly straight.
===============
So I'm giving up.
===============
You people all seem very nice and offer great help, but both the game's mechanics and I need a lot of editing. This game is unplayable, period, for anyone unfamiliar with it - how you all got familiar with it is beyond me.
Thanks for your help, but I'll go become the Dragonslayer again, solve all the L.A> Noire cases, find the bastard that shot me in FO3NF, and then maybe, if I'm still functrional, come back and try this bear again.
I admit defeat. This game is just too damn hard.
Thanks again for all the help attempts and best of luck to all.
Signing off,
ICERAY2000

Cindy · Post by **Cindy** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:56 pm

Iceray200,

Below where you have to select joystick, try the different sensitivity settings (0-5). It automatically is set on 0, but if you click on it, you can cycle through the sensitivity levels.

Sorry you have had so much trouble with EM and I hope to see you out there again soon.

Cindy

Sven2157 · Post by **Sven2157** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:46 pm

From post: 135982, Topic: tid=9239, author=ICERAY2000 wrote: ===============
So I'm giving up.
===============

WOW! That IS frustration! Hey man, it is really not that hard. I believe that you have been at it so long, and have desired to get good at it, that you are OVER doing it now.

No worries!

I found it a bit lack in explanation, when I first started, too! I have only played it a week! You want to know true frustration?

I bought the game on Steam for $24.99. The next day it went on sale for 50% off( $12.49 )! How's that for misery!

Here's what I'll do, I am not an expert at this game - BY FAR - but if you have a microphone, you can jump into my TeamSpeak, and you and I will go through the basics. They are fresh in my head as I just completed the first set of IMG Quests. I also have a Saitek X52, with the Pro Flight Rudder Pedals, and I haven't tried to use them once. So I fly with mouse and keyboard.

I figure as I get better, I will need more advanced control, and will then set up my Joystick and Pedals.

If you are interested, I am free ALL day today( Saturday April 28, 2012 ). You and I can go through the basics, and I can at least get you to where I am at. I have $35 million and a good ship...

Let me know, and I will PM you the TS3 details...

Hang in there, and it will definately pay off!

[Edited on 4-28-2012 by Sven2157]

Techno66 · Post by **Techno66** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:36 pm

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... .14j3.17.0.

excellent set of training videos .
Great game

The curve seems tough but it really is quite easy once you get the basic idea's down.

Nigel_Strange · Post by **Nigel_Strange** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:06 pm

Iceray, I think you have learned helplessness. You can give up now, sure, but I think one of the rewards of the game is the chance to learn new skills. If you are just playing the demo, then you might not have time to work through this. However, if you bought the game, then I think you should hang in there and get with some other players online for some help.

As for difficulty, I think that Vice has worked a long time to make the game friendly to new players, and most new players have some difficulty with the combat at first, but the real basic stuff as you describe does not seem to give most people much trouble. This could be explained by having a good joystick configured from the beginning.

It is possible to play the game with mouse and keyboard, and joystick and keyboard. I would not attempt to do it with keyboard only.

I highly recommend getting a decent joystick. Make sure that you calibrate it before you start the game. I use a Thrustmaster t16000m: it has a throttle control, x, y, and z (twist) axes, and a hat switch (which I use for lateral thrusters (otherwise known as "strafe"). It's a "midline" joystic (not a Saitek 52 or a HOTAS) but it's got the controls I need (with my other hand on the keyboard).

Joystick configuration is the way it is because not all joysticks map the same way. On some joysticks, the X-axis might output a signal on one channel, but another joystick will output x-axis to another channel. The axis configuration allows you to move the joystick around to see which slider moves before selecting that one for that channel.

I would not assign any axis to the strafe controls: I use the hat switch for that (another configuration option: using the hat switch for view or for lateral thrusters is in the Options menu). You can also assign keys for lateral thrust, but if you have a joystick with a hat, use the hat.

I would just assigne axes to the three main rotations: pitch, yaw, and roll. Just skip through the rest of the axis calibration after you have those set.

ICERAY2000 · Post by **ICERAY2000** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:16 pm

Sven I am not set up for multi-player, sorry, that equipment is somewhere; I'll look around; meantime, thanks to Nigel's gentle flogging , I'll try again; the HAT is the strafe mechanism - never would have thought of that and the tophat did not move any sliders anyway.
See, I did not know you could skip some controls, nor about the Options to adjust hat in menu.
All right, I'm making an early supper and then I'll put on my best suit of armor, and wade back in.
Thanks for the encouragement!

:):(

Sven2157 · Post by **Sven2157** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:23 pm

From post: 136006, Topic: tid=9239, author=ICERAY2000 wrote:Sven I am not set up for multi-player, sorry, that equipment is somewhere; I'll look around; meantime, thanks to Nigel's gentle flogging , I'll try again; the HAT is the strafe mechanism - never would have thought of that and the tophat did not move any sliders anyway.
See, I did not know you could skip some controls, nor about the Options to adjust hat in menu.
All right, I'm making an early supper and then I'll put on my best suit of armor, and wade back in.
Thanks for the encouragement! :):(

I wasn't talking about Multiplayer, just TeamSpeak, to talk you through some basics, but as you like!

ICERAY2000 · Post by **ICERAY2000** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:47 pm

Should I call this a Saga? So I recalibrated the joystick ignoring the hat, and then adjusted the dead space and that settled things down in terms of stability.
Now the problem is I can't go less than 172! I've tried calibrating the slide several times for thrust, but no luck - it just occurred to me that I can leave it uncalibrated, just use the keyboard.
Life is easier than this game.
All right, I'll try the no thruster control thing.
Also tried racing but when I finally found the gate, the guy was already at 44/99, so that didn't go well either.
Is there like just a desk job in this game?

Nigel_Strange · Post by **Nigel_Strange** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:05 pm

Iceray, there are no "deskjobs," but you can make money without accepting a mission. Do some mining.

All you need to do is get a mining/tractor beam fitted. Then, find some asteroids. Do not try to mine from a giant asteroid, but for the smaller ones in a field.

Obviously, do not jump into the middle of an asteroid field.

You need to move very close to the asteroid to mine from it. If you approach slowly, with the beam locked on (alt+_b), you will see when the beam hits the asteroid surface and begins to collect precious cargo. You can then just sit there while your ship fills with minerals. You can get "metal," gold, platinum, diamonds, etc. There are some tricks to getting the specific type of mineral that you want, but that's another lesson.

When your ship is full, open up the nav window, right-click on a station, make sure that your nose is at zero degrees pitch (using the pitch ladder). Make sure that you are not pointed in the direction of any asteroids, and hit the jump key (f2). You will arrive in the station and you can sell your cargo.

Rinse, repeat.

Once you make enough money doing mining, you can invest in better equipment: bigger ship (more cargo space), better weaons, shields, etc.

This will also give you some time to practice the lateral thrusters and maneuvering. You can try turning on and off the inertial correction system to see how it affects your ship movement.

Once ship controls become second nature, you can start doing more complex tasks, like cargo deliveries and so on.

Races are tricky. You need to jump to the starting position. I think you should probably jump to the waypoint that is automatically entered for you when you accept the mission. Your heading (as in most cases) should be zero. Your pitch should also be zero.

Most things in the universe are arranged so that if your pitch and heading are zero, you will be aligned to dock correctly. The exception is landing in carriers, which cruise at heading zero, so, in order to dock with them, you need to set your heading to 180. However, if you jump to a spot near a carrier, you can maneuver into it without having to worry too much about headings. The landing lights will help guide you.

Your joystick sounds like it needs some work if you cannot stop. Using the keyboard for throttle is a good workaround.

Laconis · Post by **Laconis** » Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:08 am

I personally use a keyboard and mouse, haven't touched anything but the deadzone option for mouse point and remapped some keys once I found I liked inertial better than IDS. With my setup I just fly around in inertial and make sure IDS speed is set to zero. I then get close enough to something and hit IDS mode to brake, made life alot easier when getting in close to those asteriods.

I might eventually spring for a good stick, but right now I find that the game with mouse point on doesn't really require one.

I also make sure my velocity and pitch are at zero before I jump at anything. Nothing sucks more than right clicking a station and jumping just to find my pitch and heading are sending me right smack into the middle of it.

Like I said before, don't give up on it. This game is too good just to shelf. Come back after a good break and try it out again if you find yourself too frustrated.

Good luck out there!

ICERAY2000 · Post by **ICERAY2000** » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:51 pm

Well, I spent a good portion of last night trying again. Cleaned an array, but apparently not good enough; went back and did every square 3X but still it didn't finish, so I blew it up and started over. Tried flying, which went better without a throttle control, but I am stepping away from it. I mean any other game I've enjoyed, I've enjoyed from the start - this is like being in the Guard; it screws up everything! I just cannot raise my enjoyment level higher than my frustration level. I can't find the fun.
I'll just go away and let you nice people enjoy this game. I'll come back later, as Laconis suggested. I do not want to hate this game, I just wanted some old space trading fun. Visually, Privateer at least had some interesting graphics - this is all glare and fluff and employs a 50's mentality towards technology in a future-world warpdrive environment where most all things should be automatic and the emphasis on play and strategy and tactics, not on pitch control and manually setting landing coords. I totally do not "get" this game.

So once again, you have all been so nice and helpful and responsive to my extreme difficulty in trying this game out. Thank you all so much for your help. I'll pop back later when I think I'm ready to try again.
ICERAY out.

Sven2157 · Post by **Sven2157** » Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:56 pm

From post: 136077, Topic: tid=9239, author=ICERAY2000 wrote:Well, I spent a good portion of last night trying again. Cleaned an array, but apparently not good enough; went back and did every square 3X but still it didn't finish, so I blew it up and started over. Tried flying, which went better without a throttle control, but I am stepping away from it. I mean any other game I've enjoyed, I've enjoyed from the start - this is like being in the Guard; it screws up everything! I just cannot raise my enjoyment level higher than my frustration level. I can't find the fun.
I'll just go away and let you nice people enjoy this game. I'll come back later, as Laconis suggested. I do not want to hate this game, I just wanted some old space trading fun. Visually, Privateer at least had some interesting graphics - this is all glare and fluff and employs a 50's mentality towards technology in a future-world warpdrive environment where most all things should be automatic and the emphasis on play and strategy and tactics, not on pitch control and manually setting landing coords. I totally do not "get" this game.
So once again, you have all been so nice and helpful and responsive to my extreme difficulty in trying this game out. Thank you all so much for your help. I'll pop back later when I think I'm ready to try again.
ICERAY out.

YOU DON'T WANT TO EXCEL! I OFFERED TO HELP YOU THROUGH VOICE COMMUNICATION - YOU TURNED IT DOWN!

jump in my TS and tell me...

[Edited on 4-29-2012 by thetiebers]

"from the board rules page" Do not insult (this includes name calling),

[Edited on 4-29-2012 by thetiebers]

someguy201 · Post by **someguy201** » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:17 pm

It's just a game - not everyone enjoys the same things, and if someone finds a game difficult and doesn't want to play it any more you can't call them names. It makes about as much sense as calling you a name for enjoying a space sim game that isn't "real life".

@Iceray - if you think you will like the game once you get over the initial difficulty, give the game a break and come back to it later

[Edited on 4-29-2012 by thetiebers]

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:30 pm

From post: 136077, Topic: tid=9239, author=ICERAY2000 wrote:...this is all glare and fluff and employs a 50's mentality towards technology in a future-world warpdrive environment where most all things should be automatic and the emphasis on play and strategy and tactics, not on pitch control and manually setting landing coords. I totally do not "get" this game.

I guess you missed the first episode of Buck Rogers of the 25th Century ... where his manual flying kicked "auto-combat" butt.

Nigel_Strange · Post by **Nigel_Strange** » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:26 pm

I understand how you feel, Iceray. Sorry you aren't having fun. You might want to hook up with some of the other newbies out there, as they are closer to the initial learning process than we are, and might be able to see where you are having trouble better than the veterans.

Gelda · Post by **Gelda** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:18 am

From post: 135761, Topic: tid=9239, author=Busch wrote:Hey IR2K! Welcome aboard! If you're using solely mouse and keyboard controls for Evo-Mercs, that's great! There's a lot of us who also fly with a joy-stick, gamepad, or combinations thereof. This one's also suited for a range of control options, that are already loaded into the interface. There is a definite learning curve here, in-game. SP or MP-space, not withstanding. It's conflict resolution starts with RTFM, my favorite. Read The Furnished Materials. Not all of the instructions on, or regarding game-play, are contained within the game software itself. This forum, DaveK's excellent offering of the hints/tips/tricks/mythos edificio; SeeJay's multi-site offerings, are just a few of those available sources. (HINT) Let your conscience be your guide, as there exists info 'twould be considered a bend-yer-dogtag, take-away-yer-birthday; spank-you-very-much social faux pas here. Beware! :P:P:P:P

How do you set pitch to zero?

Also I have read the gates are purple on the map i target one and try to jump to it and can't find it.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:59 am

You have to have your pitch lader show in your HUD and by moving your joystick forward or backwards set your pitch lader to zero! For Keyboard use the Up Arrow or Down Arrow to move pitch up or down till it reads zero!.....

And Hi Gelda, welcome to the game and forum!....Hope to see you out there some time!.....

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:19 am

To target a gate, right-click with your cursor directly over the gate icon on the Nav map ... the map should then zoom in on the gate's sector. As long as your jump drive can reach as far as the gate, all you then need do is press F2 ... not Alt F2 (which will force your jump drive to make a maximum jump in the direction you're pointing). If the gate is too far, you'll get a message saying so in Chat. Then you'll need to use autopilot.

Nigel_Strange · Post by **Nigel_Strange** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:43 pm

I think you can also use alt+f, right? If the gate is in another sector, then autopilot will jump there. If it is in the same sector, it will cruise there, if I'm not mistaken.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:21 pm

If you use Alt+F it will take you there but your approach angle to the gate might be wrong regardeless if you had set pitch and angle to 0 degrees depending if the gate was at an angle(right-left) or above or below(pitch angle) from your original possition! It does not Automatically align you with the gate or station as F2 does when you set your pitch and angle to 0 degrees!.....

[Edited on 4-30-2012 by Maarschalk]