multiple incoming missile indicators

[Aures]

When multiple missiles are closing in on me it seems like the ones furthest away are given the highest priority ie they are drawn on top with nearer missiles underneath. The missiles further away can obscure the nearby ones and make it hard to judge when to launch a cm. If there are two missiles closing from the same direction, one red with a sliver of distance and a yellow one with nearly a full bar all you will see is the yellow indicator with the full bar. I would rather be able to see the missile that is just about to hit me than one that might well self destruct before it ever gets near me.

The audio indicator helps but it doesn't really give you enough info about how fast the missile is closing. I end up using way more cms than I otherwise would because the draw order of the indicators is the reverse of what I would consider the logical order for them to be in.

[Aures]

Well it is an enhancement suggestion, sorry if I haven't got the current functionality right. But I am pretty sure I have never seen a red missile indicator over the top of a yellow one. And most times I would expect the yellow missile to have been fired after the one that is about to hit me.

The matter is a bit more subtle when you have multiple missiles at roughly the same distance, but I would like it if red missile indicators were never obscured by yellow ones.

[Aures]

I'll take your word for it, I usually have more important things to do in that situation:).

[Marvin]

Originally posted by Aures

I usually have more important things to do in that situation:).

Yeah. My thought exactly. The last thing I'd be worrying about is indicator overlap.

[Aures]

Well I don't worry about it, but if there aren't other missiles obscuring the view I find the indicators useful. It helps me gauge how close the missiles are, how fast they are closing and what direction they are coming from. I can't do any of that if I can't see the indicator because it is obscured by another missile that I wont have to worry about for a while if ever. I have to rely on the audio prompt, which only lets you know how close the closest missile is. Besides that, if the yellow missile indicator was behind the red one I could still see the yellow indicator while the reverse is not true.

[Edited on 12-11-2010 by Aures]

[DennyMala]

Usually they don't overlap for more than a second in my hud... they split while maneuvering so a little shake of your ship should clear things up.

[Aures]

Not really an option if you are shooting another target since your direction of view is more or less determined. Besides that, I shouldn't have to devote any time or thought to how I should move the ship to sidestep this issue. Moving a little will probably cause the overlap not to be as perfect, but you still have to actually pay attention to the icon rather than focusing on what you are doing.

I grant it is not the most important issue in the world, but let me turn the question around. Does the current system offer any advantages compared to what I propose? Does anyone have any objections to the proposed change? Or is it just a matter of people being more or less ok with how it currently works?

Aside from Eclipse's acknowledgement that it would make more sense if the system worked as I suggest, I haven't seen anyone offer anything but feedback to the effect that the current system is not a big problem for them. It is not a big problem for me either, but I find it noticeably easier to deal with missiles when there aren't ones way off in the distance obscuring the view. I unconsciously register the info displayed by the missile icons and it aids my flying. I notice when I am no longer able to take advantage of that information because it has a slight detrimental impact on my ability to deal with missiles efficiently.

[Marvin]

Originally posted by Aures

Does the current system offer any advantages compared to what I propose?

Yeah, one big advantage. If you think about how the algorithm probably works (simple overlapping), and how much of it Vice would need to re-program (analyze which threat is closest ... and re-evaluate, second-by-second, due to various target and missile speeds) ... the advantage is, by not spending a lot of time for very little return, he can spend more time on bug-squashing. Or playing the game.

[Vice]

Much of the visibility issue probably just stems from the width of the indicators themselves. The distance notches in the indicators takes up quite a bit of gunsight real estate and when two or more overlap, the combined results can be difficult to discern. I can probably force a non-transparency condition for red indicators, but the problem would still exist as soon as two or more of those overlap (unless the other red indicators are done away with entirely and only the nearest remains red, which would sacrifice a fairly important color marker that currently exists for more than one inbound missile). There might be a more simple solution to this though. If the distance indicators were reduced to just bars with the arrow on one end, then their interference with each other would be significantly reduced and even if/when two were really close together, you would likely still be able to discern distance. We can test this now with the customizing option, then if enough players think it would be a good change, maybe incorporate it into the standard game. To do this, place the files in the attached ZIP in the \\hud folder (which you'll need to create if you aren't already working with the customizing kit). These files will remove the distance notches and leave only the bars by themselves.

[Aures]

Thanks Vice, great idea. Of course a system where it doesn't matter whether multiple indicators overlap is superior to my suggestion.

I am just about to get into customizing myself so whatever you decide I will probably use a non-standard indicator. This should be a good baseline for me to work off though.

But I can't seem to get the custom missile indicators to work. I put them in EvochronMercenary\\hud but it had no effect. I tried extracting the entire EvochronMercenaryCustomKit and I got a similar kind of thing, most of the hud went to black and white but the missile indicators kept their default appearance. Btw the files you include are png and that is what the custom kit readme asks for but the included sample black and white files are jpg eg targetmissile2.jpg, could that have something to do with it?

Not sure if I am just doing something wrong, I haven't really played with the custom kit much. I am using version 1.180.

[Vice]

Ah, that is also a bug. The custom folder name is not set correctly in recent builds for some reason. For now, use the \\rings folder and see if that works. Will be fixed for the next update.

[Marvin]

Well, that answers that question. I wondered why I couldn't tell the difference.

[Aures]

Molto bene, I will definitely be using some variation on this idea in my hud.

While removing the distance notches does reduce the issue it does not remove it completely. I have added a horizontal cross bar to mine, hopefully that will mean I can distinguish them even when they perfectly overlap.

So, rather than -----> I now have |-----> instead. I haven't tested it properly, my first try was just a rough cut to test the principle. I will now redo it so it looks nicer and test it out during normal play.

EDIT:

I have now created some more polished versions. It will definitely need more tweaking but I have attached what I have so far. There are two versions in the file, the main one with a simple 1 pixel crossbar and a "fat" version with a 2 pixel wide crossbar and a fading effect. The pictures are vertically stretched according to how long the bar needs to be. I found at long ranges the fat version of the yellow indicator is very thick, whereas for the main version it is almost invisibly thin at close ranges.

The files will work with the standard distance notches or the invisible ones in Vice's attachment. What I was trying to do is a crossbar whose thickness does not depend on the line length. But, I should be able to knock up something that actually uses the width variation the help give info. I am thinking a curved or angled crossbar would be good since the radius of the curve or angle of the lines will change with missile distance.

I have found the best balance so far is using the main version for the yellow indicator and the fat one for the red indicator. The width of the crossbar increases a bit when the indicator turns from yellow to red, otherwise I am very happy with it.

[Edited on 14-11-2010 by Aures]

[SeeJay]

I havent tried this yet and doesn't know if my idea is relevant.

One thing that could indicate distance is the lenght of the bar. The longer bar the greater distance,
kind of what radar displays for the operator in aviation.

[Aures]

Umm unless I am misunderstanding you that is exactly what the default bar already does.

[SeeJay]

Originally posted by Aures
Umm unless I am misunderstanding you that is exactly what the default bar already does.

Oops! You're probably right. I'm used to go by the signals,
so I haven't paid enough attention.

[Edited on 2010-11-14 by SeeJay]

[Aures]

I found the total lack of distance notch indicators made it easy to not notice a missile and harder to quickly locate the appropriate direction when the warning siren starts getting urgent.

I have created some modified distance notches that do not have the solid bars on either side. I also cleaned them up so they are a single solid colour. I am still tweaking targetmissile2 and targetmissiles2red as getting the crossbar right is quite subtle. I am quite happy with my changes to targetmissile2 and targetmissile3red, I doubt I will be making any further changes to them.

Feel free to try them out, in the latest updates they go into the \\hud folder rather than \\rings as was required when Vice first posted his new versions.

[Edited on 17-11-2010 by Aures]

[Dengar]

Talking of audio indicators, any chance of replacing the FT launch audio alarm?

With all the "chatter" on the screen its very easy to miss the textual alarm and hey presto! You're gone!!!

[Aures]

The last few seconds before you get blown up by a fulcrum should be filled with panic that you don't have enough energy/time to jump away or time to get out of range. Most times I have been blown up by a fulcrum in MP and I didn't even know there was an issue until I blew up. When I die I want to see it coming, no "Mind that bus." "What bus?" *splat* for me thank you.

[Aures]

I am still using the same missile side bars as last time I posted. For a while now I have been using modified missiles indicators (targetmissile2 and targetmissile2red) that have a curved crossbar stuck on the end. I suggested Parapilot try them out so I am now uploading the complete set with the new missile side bars and crossbars. I'm sure they can be improved on slightly but I'm happy to use these ones forever unless someone else feels like making something better.

Ideally there would be a totally clear cut way of distinguishing when a missile enters cm range but these do the job nicely as the crossbar changes from a bullet shape at long range to almost a straight line when the missile is about to hit. I find they really help distinguish multiple incoming missiles and make it much easier to judge when to launch cm's.

Just drop the hud folder in the zip file into your EvochronMercenary folder and you are good to go. Alternatively you can extract the actual files and drop them into a pre-existing hud subfolder if you like. All the files will work individually so feel free to pick and choose. It takes less than 5 minutes to test it out and I think it is well worth the effort.

[file]314[/file]

[Parapilot]

Thanks Aures. Will try it out tonight.

[Galaxian]

Nice work. I tried these out and like 'em!

[Aures]

Thanks Galaxian, I find some kind of cross bar really helps. Cutting down the guide bars to the minimum also makes it much clearer and the two changes work well togethr I think.

It is quite trippy watching the shape of the cross bar change as the missile gets closer.