[EM 1.828-2.848] Bizarre Problem with Arvoch/Evochron Series and Saitek X65f *FIXED 2.848b*

[TheCrimsonCrusader]

Greetings. OK, this is a strange one. When I moved the right throttle forward in the Arvoch/Evochron games, once I reach about 80% throttle or greater, the self destruct button kicks in. If I back it off, it then disengages the self destruct.

Now here is the strange part, this throttle isn't mapped to anything and on top of that, I actually cleared the self-destruct hotkey in the game so it wasn't bound to anything, but the throttle will still perform the self-destruct if I get to about 80% or greater on the right throttle.

I also tried using the left throttle as the primary throttle instead, so the right throttle is not even mapped, but even in that scenario, if the right throttle goes forward to 80% or beyond, the self-destruct kicks in.

I am not seeing this kind of problem in any other flight sim or space combat game, so this is a unique one. Any ideas?

I should also mention that I am running Win7 x64 and I didn't experience this with older builds of Evochron Legends/Mercenaries, which may or may not be of relevance.

Got any builds from early last year still around for testing?

[Edited on 13-4-2012 by TheCrimsonCrusader]

[Vice]

Almost sounds like the destruct key is somehow mapped/bound to your upper control axis. How or why, I'm not sure, but what does the key/button configuration menu display as the input control for self-destruct? Have you enabled the afterburner control for the throttle axis? If so, what happens when you disable it?

[TheCrimsonCrusader]

Yeah, that's what I thought. So I first remapped the self-destruct from the default of F7 to F12 and the problem still occurred.

So after that, I then cleared the mapping in game so the self-destruct wasn't mapped to any key whatsoever, yet the problem persists.

I've seen some strange ones, but this takes the cake. :-)

I tried the afterburner tick box in both scenarios, but the problem still persists.

To add to the madness, I actually did NOT assign either of the throttle axis within the game and it still registers the self-destruct call despite self-destruct not being bound to any key within the game.

[Vice]

Strange, please e-mail me your keymap8.sw, sw.cfg, and stickt.sw files along with the profile you are currently using (the address at starwraith.com > contact) and I'll take a look at least from the game's control configuration standpoint. Are you using any mapping options within Saitek's profiling software?

[TheCrimsonCrusader]

I will get sent in just a bit here. As far as the profiling software, I actually uninstalled the profiling software to ensure it was relying strictly on the driver.

Additionally, I mapped the F7 key to a utility within Windows, which calls the utility as expected, and then I tried the right throttle and it did not request the utility, so it appears the call most certainly occurs in game, but as to why, it's a mystery.

[TheCrimsonCrusader]

OK, I sent it to your s w 3 d g a m e s at gee mail account.

Just as an FYI, I previously blew out the profile, so everything was at default to see if something perhaps got corrupted, but that didn't help.

The problem occurs whether I have the game activated or not. I am doing a search on my drives to see if I have an older build of Evochron Mercenary or Legends for testing purposes.

[TheCrimsonCrusader]

OK, I found a 1087 Evochron Legends build that I packaged back in April 12, 2009 and it's doing the same thing. The right throttle is only performing that input in the StarWraith related games as I haven't been able to replicate it in DCS A-10 and the Freespace Open Source Project as an example.

Nor is any key getting processed in Windows from manipulating the right throttle input.

This may be one of those strange anomalies that calls for a reimage. :-)

Just a quick note, on those config files I sent, F7 will be bound to the self-destruct again, but that's only because I blew out the profile to test and see if it was perhaps corrupted in some strange way, but to no avail.

[Vice]

Thanks for the files, everything looks fine on the game-side of things.

This has taken a long time to investigate and I'm still not sure exactly what the cause might be. It seems that 'phantom key presses' and 'phantom button presses' may occur with some Saitek controllers. It used to happen with their PZ44 Pro Flight Yoke device (devices with serial numbers below 491277). For example, you'd be flying along and for no reason, your landing gear would suddenly go up or down when you turned the yoke to a certain angle. So I'm wondering if a similar potential defect in the X65F could result in the same kind of key or button input press with an axis control at a certain angle (80% on the throttle in this case). Maybe this will help pin it down. There are 3 potential sub-functions that can enable the self-destruct mode:

1 - Keyboard Input Control Function 52
2 - Game Control Device Input Control Function 52
3 - Mouse Button Input Control Function 52

So something along the line must be returning an input function on one of those channels. My guess would be it's probably the button input, but why would be a mystery. The reason it may be happening in this game and not others is simply because this game may be 'listening' on a channel the others aren't. My initial suggestion would be this:

- Lets start with the possibility that the device is returning a button signal on ID 52 for any reason, whether it's intended or defective. Go into Options > Configure Controls > Configure key/button Controls > Page 2 > click on the self-destruct control function and this time, map a button on the X65 to that function. Enter the game and test for changes. If the same problem occurs, go into the configure controls menu again and select a different joystick button to test with. Repeat this process until there are no more buttons available to test with or the problem is solved.

If it turns out that solves the problem, then it could be a flawed driver, defective controller, or improper default setup. For any of those three, it should be something Saitek can provide a fix or replacement for. And there is probably a way we can set up the game's configuration file to bypass a signal input as a temporary work-around in the meantime.

[TheCrimsonCrusader]

OK, now we are getting somewhere. I cleared all bindings to the self-destruct function and then bound the primary firing trigger from the joystick to the self-destruct function.

So I first tested the firing trigger and it initiates the self-destruct sequence as expected, but now when I moved the throttle forward (around that 80% or greater threshold again), it will then fire the main guns instead, which would have normally been reserved for the primary firing trigger.

Now that's interesting! :-)

Additional Information:

I went through the game and unbound ALL key, button and mouse assigments, so basically the only expected functions would be the DirectX axis assignments.

In that scenario, when I would move the throttle to the typical point where the problem occurs, it would both fire the primary gun AND initiate the self destruct sequence.

So then I went in and mapped the primary trigger to fire the primary gun and the throttle went back to just having the self destruct sequence.

So I then mapped another button on the joystick to the self-destruct sequence and in that scenario, when I moved the throttle to the typical point, instead of initiating the self destruct sequence, it was making a repeating "dinking" sound (the sound when changing to different targets as an example), except I have no idea what command is actually getting processed there, since I don't see anything visually.
I wonder if there is a "hidden" button press that can occur on the X65f throttle at the upper detente position, because it seems this input occurs roughly close to that, which would be around that 80% or so mark.

The thing is, you would expect that would be programmed in with a mapping function in the software, except I don't even have the mapping software installed, so the X65f "should" in theory be relying solely on DirectInput functions only.

Also, when that repeated dinking sound is occurring, the in-game mouse while it moves, does not allow me to select anything. So when I back off the throttle and the dinking stops, I can then select things within the game again.

[Edited on 14-4-2012 by TheCrimsonCrusader]

[Capt_Caveman]

for what its worth;

I have an x52 pro and have a similar glitch.
when i press the left scrollwheel button on the throttle/display, it fires lasers, cannon and self destruct.
i can delete key assignment in the game to correct this but then i lose that key command (not a good option)
this wheelbutton selects pages in the x52 display and not assignable in the saitek profile editer or intended for
any key assignment via the profiler.

since there is no way to delete or reassign it, i just dont use it
therefore its not a problem for me.



[Edited on 4-14-2012 by capt_cronic]

[stch]

Try to (kill) reinstall the joystick (window)drivers
might not properly installd

[Edited on 4-14-2012 by stch]

[Vice]

Ok, I've updated the joystick configuration test program and it now displays all 32 button inputs. It can be downloaded here:

http://www.starwraith.com/evochronmerce ... Config.zip

To install it, just extract the file from the zip and place is in the save data folder of the game. It will load your selected configuration and you can then test the axis channels and buttons. This way, you'll be able to see which button channel is receiving a signal when its value is not 0.

I also use an X52 and haven't run into anything similar, so it may be a similar issue as what they had before with their Pro Flight Yoke on some of their controllers.

[TheCrimsonCrusader]

OK, when moving the throttle in the forward position towards the upper limits, it's sending input signals on 23, 27 and 31. Interesting.

[Vice]

Ok, that is very strange. Do the button signals activate simultaneously or at different points along the axis range? That program merely displays the raw input data from the device, so for whatever reason, it is returning -button- inputs on an axis. Does anyone else have a X65 that could run this program to test with for comparison?

[TheCrimsonCrusader]

They occur simultaneously.

[Ikoth]

Hi there,

I've just bought an X65 rig and run the diagnostic program. Everything registers OK, apart from the following items:

Stick Hat 1 - Only NSEW registering, nothing on diagonals

Stick POV Hat - not registering

Right hand throttle - not registering

Throttle rotary 1 & 2 - not registering movement but buttons work

Throttle Hat 7 - not registering

Throttle K Switch - not registering

Console Pod - T buttons and Big Red Switch - not registering


I hope this helps. Let me know if yiu need any more tests.

Cheers,

Ikoth.

[Vice]

Not registering controls could indicate they just weren't mapped in the game itself before you ran the test program. Have you bound those non-registering controls to functions in the game?

The problem earlier in this thread had to do with something else, that button signals were being returned when certain axis channels were set to specific positions. Is that something you have encountered as well?

[Ikoth]

Ahh, sorry. My misunderstanding.

I'll check the in game mappings and report back. I suspect, as you say, they're just not mapped in the profile.

Apologies for the confusion.

Cheers,

Ikoth.

[CSG Lipfert]

Hola!,

I have a long history with Saitek products and you should always try and remove any duplicate keyboard / joystick keystokes / button items as possible. Always start with one command at a time, otherwise duplicates will drive you insane.

[Edited on 6-25-2012 by CSG Lipfert]

[Infinity+1]

Vice,

I hope you'll still monitoring this thread.

I just got my X65F and I am having a nearly identical problem. The HAT on the throttle, when pushed to my left, is shooting both main weapons and is starting the self-destruct countdown. Using your joystick exe, I noticed that it is the only button on the whole HOTAS returning a negative value. -2147483648

HAT Down: 1073741824
HAT Right: 536870912
HAT Up: 268435456
HAT Left: -2147483648

All the other buttons (at least the ones that register) return a positive value, and usually a much smaller one.

I really hope this helped.

-∞

[DaveK]

The X65F appears to be the newest saitek unit - only just available (for over £400) in the UK. I wonder if the Saitak forum has anything helpful - it may well be a common issue

Anyway I suspect it'll be solved before I can afford one

[Vice]

I just got my X65F and I am having a nearly identical problem. The HAT on the throttle, when pushed to my left, is shooting both main weapons and is starting the self-destruct countdown. Using your joystick exe, I noticed that it is the only button on the whole HOTAS returning a negative value. -2147483648

HAT Down: 1073741824
HAT Right: 536870912
HAT Up: 268435456
HAT Left: -2147483648

All the other buttons (at least the ones that register) return a positive value, and usually a much smaller one.

I really hope this helped.

That actually sounds like a similar, but different problem. Previously, the X65 was returning joystick -button- signals on an axis input, which is very strange behavior. The button signals the X65 was sending signals from axis movement was 23, 27, and 31. If the hat is blending signals, it might be something different, could indicate a change in behavior or just something that was reported before that might be related to an axis channel also sending button signals. Do you also experience button signals when moving an axis control around?

Can't really explain it at this stage, unless some profiling settings are set or default to provide certain button signals for specific types of input. All the game is doing is listening for those signals, then acting on them when they are received from the device.

You'll notice this thread and issue were two years old and involved a much older (pre-expansion) version of the game. So I'd like to make sure you're running a current build of everything, including their software. What version of the game are you using?

What driver/SST version of their software are you using? What other driver versions have you tried?

Did you install their Magic Keyboard, Magic Mouse, and/or Magic Bus during installation of their software?

[Infinity+1]

The X65F appears to be the newest saitek

Just so you know, this stick is years old here in the states.

Do you also experience button signals when moving an axis control around?

No. Axis control behaves normally.

What version of the game are you using?

Evochron Mercenary V2.848

What driver/SST version of their software are you using?

Driver 7.0.0.0
SST 7.0.27.13

What other driver versions have you tried?

None

Did you install their Magic Keyboard, Magic Mouse, and/or Magic Bus during installation of their software?

I don’t think so. I certainly did not actively seek out and install those.

I would also like to point out that the button in question (Left on Throttle HAT) does not appear in the in-game control configure pages.
Down = 30
Right = 29
Up = 28
Left = Nothing

Cheers

[Vice]

I don’t think so. I certainly did not actively seek out and install those.

They would be part of the standard installation for their SST software, unless you specifically exclude them during install.

When you press the left hat button, do you see other button signals being activated in the list of 32? If so, which ones?

Since your problem is different and you don't encounter the issue the other person reported, perhaps it could be an issue with a defective device. There's no reason I can think of that a device would return button signals on an axis input nor different button signals out of a hat return.

It is interesting that the one signal returns a negative value, but that still wouldn't explain why other button or key inputs are being activated when that button is pressed. Perhaps its negative value indicates a defect of some kind that is part of why other button signals are improperly being activated.

Have you contacted Saitek support to see what they might have to say about the issue? I'd be happy to be part of helping them diagnose either issue.

[Infinity+1]

Sure enough, I found the Majic Bus in Device Manager.

Left hat registers as number 31. No other button signals change (all remain '0').

I have not contacted Saitek Support. But I may. I think I should install the demo game that came with the HOTAS, to see if that game registers the hat buttons properly. Just so you know, the saitek software shows all the buttons are registering, including the left hat.

Edit: I want to clarify. Left hat shows as 31 in joystickconfig.exe, but not in the EM menu.

[Edited on 5-31-2014 by Infinity+1]