Beam weapons

Sinchi · Post by **Sinchi** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:53 pm

Hello,

Maybe I am doing something wrong, but I can't see the difference between beam weapons, for me a coil laser is as lethal as the fusion laser, it take me the same time bringing down shields with both of them, but the first is just a fraction of the cost. Please explain me how beam weapons work. Thx in advance . Regards.

Sorry for my english

BLEVE · Post by **BLEVE** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:51 am

From post: 114095, Topic: tid=7952, author=Sinchi wrote:Hello,

Maybe I am doing something wrong, but I can't see the difference between beam weapons, for me a coil laser is as lethal as the fusion laser, it take me the same time bringing down shields with both of them, but the first is just a fraction of the cost. Please explain me how beam weapons work. Thx in advance . Regards.

Sorry for my english

You are correct. I also cant see the difference and still use the metal vapor laser.

Post by **Marvin** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:04 am

I use metal vapor too ... I like the name.

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:42 am

As I understand it, the purpose of beam weapons is to attack/deplete enemy shields. The greater the effect, the more damage induced; hence enemy shields droppage hasteneth! However, the greater the effect, the greater the power supply to said beam weapon must be. Else, you'll spend more time recharging your weapons energy, and employ them less often. Same with your choice of particle cannon, for attacking/sundering enemy armor. This may motivate your choice of engines, wings, and shields. Power/fuel supplies are drawn on by proplusion, wings, weapons, and shields. The less power required to the wings (by chosing a better wing calibre), the more power available for shields and weapons bias. The greater the power supply provided by a powerful engine, the greater the facility of providing power for all of your ships' systems requirements.

Dingo · Post by **Dingo** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:28 am

From post: 114138, Topic: tid=7952, author=FADM Busch wrote:As I understand it, the purpose of beam weapons is to attack/deplete enemy shields. The greater the effect, the more damage induced; hence enemy shields droppage hasteneth! However, the greater the effect, the greater the power supply to said beam weapon must be. Else, you'll spend more time recharging your weapons energy, and employ them less often. Same with your choice of particle cannon, for attacking/sundering enemy armor. This may motivate your choice of engines, wings, and shields. Power/fuel supplies are drawn on by proplusion, wings, weapons, and shields. The less power required to the wings (by chosing a better wing calibre), the more power available for shields and weapons bias. The greater the power supply provided by a powerful engine, the greater the facility of providing power for all of your ships' systems requirements.

Any man that uses the word "hasteneth" is a man to listened to and respected.

Remember also that the range of your beam is tie dto that of the cannon you use.

Post by **Marvin** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:59 am

From post: 114140, Topic: tid=7952, author=Dingo wrote:Any man that uses the word "hasteneth" is a man to listened to and respected.

Doth thou meaneth all the time ... or just wheneth the word soundith correcteth?

Post by **DaveK** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:04 am

the lattereth

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:47 am

LOLETH......

:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P

[Edited on 9-4-2011 by Maarschalk]

Shieldwolf · Post by **Shieldwolf** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:34 pm

woofeth ROFLMAOeth atest the momenteth.

:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:01 am

LOLeth.....

:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P

[Editeth on 9-4-2011 by Maarschalketh].....

:P

Shieldwolf · Post by **Shieldwolf** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:20 am

woofeth lest thee rooeth. Dost thou meaneth thateth thy musteth hasteneth whilst in combatseth if thine hast thou weaponeth atest closest rangest?

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:44 am

Yeah Varly, your Friarship!

:P:P:P:P

Dingo · Post by **Dingo** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:06 am

thee and thine doth confound and besmirch the english language! Heed ye the sage council on arms that beameth, but forswear henceforth this hoary vernacular and embraceth fully the mundane tongue to which we hath grown moar accustomed o'er the centuries!

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:11 am

And back on point, are beam weapons really effective and worth the power drain?
Has anybody done any tests with just beam weapons to judge their effectiveness?
One thing I noticed about beam weapons is that they never seem to miss. What I mean is when they are used in conjunction with particle weapons, they give a false sense of hitting the target when actually only the beam is hitting the target. They may be tied to range, but they are not tied to contact and all those wasted cannon shots, just eats up energy.
Unless there is proof that beam weapons have a significant impact on the target, I can see why some players might discard the beam weapons altogether.
Opinions anyone?

Post by **DaveK** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:03 am

1: I've tried moving from Phantom to Maxim and now to Icespear - in theory from 19 800 damage/min to 10 000 damage /min down to 3 000 damage/min and the latter really is more effective - I can now take out Vonari quicker and usually with one (long) burst. I think MMaggio is right - the beam gives an impression of hitting that the particles don't manage

2: I've tried the "use the beam alone until the shields go down" - but they never seem to do so! However I can use the beam non-stop without the weapons energy level diminishing at all

I'l try the "particle alone" approach and see if it makes a difference and report back

I'll also try the Flarebeam since it gives a bit more range, though it seems that "up close and personal" is the way to go!

Shieldwolf · Post by **Shieldwolf** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:23 am

woof Have used particle only ( on occasion when I haven't had time to switch to both) and the particle alone will take em down. Almost seems as if the beam is useless, but haven't paid that much attention to whether or not there is any significant differences between the two.

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:39 am

That's my point. You can fire the beam alone all day and it will not take out an enemy ship, but you can fire the cannon alone and destroy the target.
I'm just not sure the beam weapon is really doing anything.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:51 am

If you pay attention to the enemies shield in the enemy status console on the right display square and use just your beam weapons you can see their shields go down as you fire. Now the rate the shields drop depends on the beam weapon you use. I ussually use beams first to lower their shields then switch to particle and they are history with a few shots depending on the particle weapons range, yield, rate and accuracy of hits. Beam weapons just lowers the shields at a certain rate and duration depending on the beam weapons yield it does not destroy the ship or missiles or any object!........

[Edited on 9-5-2011 by Maarschalk]

Dingo · Post by **Dingo** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:43 pm

Against AI I almost always use only the cannon. It is very slightly slower, but with an icespear or flarebeam my energy is always at max, even with continuous fire, and therefore available for the shield recharger, which allows me to stay very close to the middle of the ai swarm at all times. This means that I dont need to make passes, just stay in the thick of the fight until they are all dead. Alternately, just adding metal-vapor is pretty close to the same.

no beam against a player in PvP is suicide though.

[Edited on 9-5-2011 by Dingo]

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:38 pm

Pilot NFG flys/fights using a Banshee particle cannon. And appears to do quite well without a beam weapon installed or active.
Depending on the frame/power core/engines/etc., I'll adjust the beam weapons accordingly. With a Guardian frame, I'll use the Max-R/Metal Vapor combo. (Same for all mil frames up to Lamprey). With a Legacy thru Starmaster frame, I'll use either the Coil or Neodymium. (Same for mil frames Firestar and above). In rare circumstances, I'll set up an IceSpear/Fusion combo, regardless of civ/mil frame; while keeping in mind the power needs of both. The best combos that work for me are a tricked-out Mammoth w/ the Max-R/Coil combo, or an Avenger with the same lash-up. It's not like I can fire all day, but burst control seems to work real well, and the blossoms from exploding enemy ships are spectacular. And yes, in support of Maars, I too have watched enemy shields degenerate, corresponding to the duration of the beam weapon's "impact". Would suggest the "value" of the beam weapons application is in reducing shields so your particle cannons' effect are more profound. (?) And aren't they "supposed" to work together anyway - that's why they're called "primary weapons" ? Then, there's the SunRail cannon that depletes enemy energy, and the Trebuchet cannon that depletes enemy shields to consider, along with your beam weapon-of-choice. Or not.

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:42 pm

From post: 114363, Topic: tid=7952, author=Maarschalk wrote:If you pay attention to the enemies shield in the enemy status console on the right display square and use just your beam weapons you can see their shields go down as you fire. Now the rate the shields drop depends on the beam weapon you use. I ussually use beams first to lower their shields then switch to particle and they are history with a few shots depending on the particle weapons range, yield, rate and accuracy of hits. Beam weapons just lowers the shields at a certain rate and duration depending on the beam weapons yield it does not destroy the ship or missiles or any object!........
[quote]
Well if you are correct and the beam weapons alone can take down shields and the cannons obviously can take down shields too, then using the combination should hasten the destruction of the target assuming that the cannon is actually hitting the target and not just the lasers. I think by now it is accepted practice to drop beam weapons once the shields are destroyed and concentrate just the particle weapon.
But to prove the theory that the use of both vs just the cannons, I think we need a player guinea pig to allow some tests.
Can I get a volunteer?

Dingo · Post by **Dingo** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:47 pm

I will volunteer. Powell and I used to do this all the time anyway. The beam does work somewhat, but the main problem is that its harder to see whether the cannons are hitting or not. Also, since you only need to destroy one side of the shield, as the ai is very slow to compensate, the cannon is just far more important.

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:56 pm

Ok, then next time I see you on line we will go somewhere quiet and run some tests.

Post by **DaveK** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:00 pm

From post: 114355, Topic: tid=7952, author=MMaggio wrote:That's my point. You can fire the beam alone all day and it will not take out an enemy ship, but you can fire the cannon alone and destroy the target.
I'm just not sure the beam weapon is really doing anything.

I don't think that it actually does it but the beam is supposed to take down the shields and then you switch to particles to take out the ship!

I've hammered ships with a Fusion and the shield strength indicator hasn't moved

[Edited on 5-9-2011 by DaveK]

49rTbird · Post by **49rTbird** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:38 pm

I switched to a Maxim R by itself and it works good without draining so much power.