Answer again here. Sorry folks!
Ok, we might have to agree to disagree. You might think the less, the better. I think that having the least amount of something is the wrong way to go.
This is not an opinion thing, otherwise I'd agree to disagree. In design, less is always more.
no, I said 'it's not about perceived worth, it's about actual worth', but whatever.
Big shock, everything in the game is worth exactly nothing. There is no actual worth in the game - only perceived worth.
once again, agree to disagree on the first sentence. Making the current stuff better would also be very good, but I reckon new stuff could still be useful!
That is not an answer.
Well, atm, take wings. The higher up you go, the more expensive they are,the more assembly points they take up and the more they give you manoeuvrability. Changing this (e.g. making higher-up ones perhaps take up less resources for the same or greater manoeuvrability) would simply make things more interesting, less straightforward and change the dynamic of ship-building a bit - bigger might not always be better, it might depend on your ship for instance. It certainly wouldn't be bad. (Take this as an example, again using wings/manoeuvrability: atm, you use higher-level wings to offset the brick-like-ness of higher-end ships. The bigger the ship, the better the wings you need. End of, nothing to see here. If, perhaps, there was a high-end wing, perhaps not available in all systems, and quite expensive as well, then it might allow a sufficiently well-off mercenary to take a striker, slap on something the equivelant of nighthawk (which it couldn't normally fit) and make something more manoeuvrable than a Evoch-C.)
Okay, we can agree that there could be more interesting dynamics with the available items. However, if there were 'premium' items that would diminish dynamics.
Of course there would be differences... there already *are* differences, it's just that you can get both sets of frames everywhere (assuming sufficient tech level, obviously) o.O
So basically, no difference at all.
I'm just suggesting that some wormholes don't have a set destination - each time you go through them you could find something new and exciting, or you might be dumped back at sapphire, or even deep space or the inside of a sun! (obviously they won't just generate the coords randomly, you'd end up in deep space all the time otherwise!
) Combined with the death-penalty some are suggesting, this would make it a lot more interesting.
Never, ever,
ever punish an unwitting player.
y'know, places where you can can go and have a beer (or an evobeer as the case may be!) It could add a new dynamic to the game.
That fits so badly in the current design-vision I wouldn't feel that is a solution to anything but clutter.
atm, ore processers and research stations etc. do little except effect nearby station's inventories. Make, for instance, ore processers able to convert ore into components (the difference to constructors could be say, you could build some kind of 'ore miner', and link the two, supplying a continuous stream of components you can use. Maybe tech stations could allow you to upgrade components with nifty add-ons or something.) At the very least, they should do something more interesting than just sit there, look pretty and tell trade stations to sell something marginally different.
You mean making it able to earn money even a bit more easily?
Why not do both? Create some major money sinks that you really have to work hard to get to would make the game a lot more enjoyable, to have some long-term goals.
I disagree that the current items wouldn't suffice.
I'm just suggesting that say, you could only get some special frame that has something special (maybe it can have maxed out allocation points, or carry more than the usual number of missiles, or have very good shields, whatever), but you could only get say, Special Frame A from *those* specific hidden planets, Special Frame B from *those other* specific hidden planets etc. I'm suggesting adding some new frames that make the game more interesting. So you won't like this, 'cos 'less is better'
If an addition serves the original design better than omitting it, by all means add it. Sadly, this does not.
Why wouldn't we want that? New alien races could be cool, perhaps they give some sort of special something-or-another. It might be interesting to play as a member of some minor race that comes from a semi-unknown backwater planet. Perhaps it could affect how bars work for you.
Could be cool isn't a design argument. A counter-argument that does fit the design is that the fiction does not allow for this.
Because having some vaguely realistic stars might go well with all the other more-complex-than-necessary stuff this game has. Plus, it would make direct-jumping from one place to another a little bit harder, and really, the stars are *so* much smaller than planets atm. That's just plain weird.
Vaguely realistic would mean the stars could stay the exact same as they are and kill you two sectors out. In this case, Vice went with simplification for both technical and design-related reasons. No use in sacrificing nine sectors for a star if one will do.
...you like that phrase don't you? Because it's INTERESTING. y'know, not boring just flying around. Perhaps there's some stations hidden inside these stars protected by many many shields, perhaps selling some of those unique items I've mentioned. This would go very well with the stars-actually-taking-up-space thing I've mentioned.
I like the phrase because it is the best way to consider an idea as a designer. If you can answer that with a valid design argument, it might be interesting to pursue. In this case, you've added not a single argument except for visual interest which, from a game design perspective, is not important.
Are you asking me to describe some of the stuff that the artifacts do, or what having them there would add to the universe? If the former, well, I've named a few, perhaps they could also do things as simple as acting as a gravity sink for you to be able to orbit round, perhaps they could provide wormholes to a secret place, perhaps they could allow you to activate an in-built weapon system when you're nearby. If the latter, then it's the same as many other things I've said. It's making the game more interesting by adding more features to it. If it didn't have any features all we'd have is a physics model with a rudimentary economic one tacked on the side, and that really would be boring.
Again, more isn't better. You're describing stuff that is already possible within the design and would only add additional content. From a game-design perspective, this isn't adding to the game. From a fiction-point of view, there are things that would add more.
What about single player? You can build up fleets for a reason y'know. If nothing else, you can't say that having a massive capital ship be able to be taken down by one pilot in a fighter, no matter how skilled, makes sense. That's like saying someone in a microlight weilding an AK47 ought to be able to take down an Apache gunship.
There's a really good reason why in most shooters, a microlight wielding an AK47
is able to take down an Apache gunship. It's unfair design towards the player to not allow that possibility - and in such cases, sense loses to good design.
-Customising ship to have two particle cannons, or 3 lasers (large frames have more options)
Could be interesting.
Yup, which is why I've suggested just about everything here - *because* it's interesting.
Major difference here being this actually is interesting as it expands on an existing design in a design-wise interesting way.
-Underwater cities, allow spaceships to go underwater with the right upgrade.
That is completely ridiculous in every interpretation.
A bit like the fighter-taking-down-capital-ship, or flying-through-gas-giants, or having fulcrum drives (that bend space) available for general use? There's plenty of wacky things that could be good (not all of them, obviously. Planet-size stars for example.), and underwater cities in and of themselves aren't that wacky. Perhaps flying spaceships down to them might be, but it's only an idea.
Not in a fiction-way, that might work. From a design point it is just odd to add underwater.
-different looking ciites, some with special interior areas to dock etc.
Which would all do the same, thus fix nothing.
Except make the game more interesting... ? Which is what we're trying to achieve here anyway, is it not?
I disagree that would add anything interesting.
-Mega-stations, which you can fly around in.
Great. But, uh, what would that add to the game?
See above.
See above.
-Rare ores and minerals hidden in the giant asteroids
How about moving certain minerals that already exist there?
Well, whatever. Maybe make diamonds not available in every asteroid, make the richest deposits in the mega-'roids, maybe add or change some resources, but make the mega-'roids more interesting to go mining in.
Agreed.
-More things to do with the backstory, hidden beacons that say stuff about it, stuff in the news.
That might help the believability of the universe.
Yay, we're agreeing! Not to mention the fact that yes, it will make the game more interesting.
You're mixing game and fiction again.
-More quests to follow
Examples?
Well, perhaps you could have a couple that take you to riftspace via different routes, showing you different cool things. Perhaps you could follow one that shows you some wormholes to cool places. Perhaps you have to work out where the Lost Rucker gate is so you can drop an item off there, whatever. Just some more storylines to follow that will show off more of the universe, hopefully going via several hidden planets en route.
Might conflict with sandbox principles, but I agree.
-Player-created quests (would be especially good in mp)
What kind of interface are you proposing and how would this integrate in SP?
Interface: From the build constructor, you can build beacons as well. When you build one, a little screen pops up asking for some text that will appear when you fly near it. Have another couple of boxes showing the requirements for the text to appear (e.g. rank admiral, 25 ore in cargo bay, stealth field active, etc.) Then a button saying 'place'.
Integration: same as stations atm, so you could place them in SP (perhaps you could get you friends to try them if you give them the right file), but also in MP, with the two not crossing over.
You can do exactly this through non-game-implemented methods which actually encourages personal communication. This change would be detrimental to the game.
-Stuff in the hollow planets (cities, containers, wormholes etc.)
The same stuff you find everywhere else? Why would I go there and why don't the asteroids suffice?
I was just pointing out these don't have to be big, boring, empty caverns, much like most mega-'roids are atm.
They're not.
-Giant living creatues, maybe some kind of alien skywhale or something living in gas giants (something anyway)
Maybe add something with a prince who needs to find the giant mythical sword?
Ok, so you don't like this idea. Sorry, whatever. I shall continue to dream about seeing giant whales swimming through gas giants :L
I am sincerely hoping that remains in your dream indeed. It's not that I am again flying whales - heck I use Twitter - but how would you mesh that with Evochron's fiction?
-Floating islands in gas giants - have the islands float around? (whilst staying facing outwards, of course)
So, basically, make gas giants like every other planet? Wouldn't hurt, now they're simply scenery and that's not really useful.
Not quite like every other planet, because you can fly completely around in gas giants. You could have multiple different layers of islands, orbit around inside the gas giant. This really would be interesting actually, you could fly from floating island to floating island etc.
Basically, asteroids within atmosphere. I like it.
-tunnels and stuff in said floating islands!
You have an odd obsession with tunnels.
Yup, 'cos they can be interesting! And concealing a wormhole at the end of a tunnel in a floating island in a gas giant *would* be interesting, and certainly make exploration more fun.
The fact that tunnels aren't interesting now doesn't bode well for even more tunnels.
-New ships, able to fly capital ships??
Why new ships and what would you suppose a capital ship do?
New ships, see all the other 'new stuff' from earlier which you don't like
Capital ships, well a mobile base is certainly one nice idea as others have said, perhaps you could control it, fly it into a warzone and then take control of one of its turrets, ai takes the rest, and you start shooting down those pesky fighters that dont bother you much because hopefully by now a capital-ship-buff has been implemented. And then you could come across another capital ship and start blowing each other to bits!
Yeaaah. No. See, this is dreaming and not design. You have this epic idea in your head but that's not how it'd be in game. You're changing the game into a MMORPG in structure, with buffs and all. That doesn't fit the current design.
-Diplomatic relations - have stuff in the news, which affects the universe, about e.g. tensions between different factions, war breaking out, espionage, perhaps you could become an official diplomat on one side's behalf!
Isn't that already in the game? If not, the tension could be useful. Then again, the safe zones in the game are there for a reason, so making that more dynamic might have a bad effect.
It's not really already in the game, I'm talking about say, federation-alliance relations, not navy-miners relations. This could start a war sometimes, perhaps a proxy war instead (actually, proxy wars are a nice idea considering you're a mercenary), perhaps the value of certain components is heightened, etc. etc. Like, a little more than just how many ships decide to take potshots at you.
You could still have safezones. Maybe make certain systems belong to neutral parties, perhaps make some systems fairly worthless so although they belong to one side, they're still safe, maybe have some not-so-hidden hidden-planets that would be safe, etc. etc.
Agree.
I don't think safe zones are that big a deal, you can always just hide in a station
Disagree. Opinions don't count in design
.
-Make money not so easy to get hold of.
Good one!
Yay, we now agree on... two things!
Yay!
tha_rami - The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
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Hey, DaveK ... you don't need to make up a story in your head. You can add it to the game, via a modded quest.
Hey, DaveK ... you don't need to make up a story in your head. You can add it to the game, via a modded quest.
- If there is nothing to read at breakfast I read the cereal packet. 
but constrained to be linear by the game 
There are things in Rift Space that didn't make it to EM? Does that mean they were in EL? What? 
If there are no nearby planets in Riftspace, the News screen will display information from whatever system is closest ... even if "close" is, relatively speaking, not so close at all. Vice might've adjusted that part of the program for EM.
:mad::mad: