Spoiler Alert

PavelKaza · Post by **PavelKaza** » Tue May 10, 2011 1:35 pm

Hello

We have 2 systems and havent gates. I would like these systems connect gates.
Gate wiil cost some money.
I want to use Gate and I have to have 5 solar power energy, 1 energy station,1 ore processor which will supply materials from asteroids.

I must mine some raw materils and that would arrive into trade station. These station will comunication between you.
It here will table and I see to need materials.

This is idea how use buildable station.

What do you think about idea? IM Pavel
I apologize for my english.

[Edited on 5-10-2011 by PavelKaza]

[Edited on 5-10-2011 by PavelKaza]

soulsacrifice · Post by **soulsacrifice** » Tue May 10, 2011 3:35 pm

If you're talking about being able to build jump gates like you can build stations I think that it would be a great addition to the game, but I think there would have to be a limit to two gates (1 connection) per player so we can't just go anywhere at any time and that they should also be destructable, as the current player built stations are.

Post by **Marvin** » Tue May 10, 2011 3:50 pm

It would be a great idea ... except I doubt it could be added to the current "build" algorithm. All the buildable platforms require only one set of coordinates ... and those coordinates are determined by the location of the player's ship. It's as simple as that.

To build a gate requires two sets of coordinates ... entry (determined in a way similar to the current setup) and exit. It's that second set of coordinates that would probably complicate the building algorithm ... possibly to the point of breaking the program.

soulsacrifice · Post by **soulsacrifice** » Tue May 10, 2011 4:05 pm

It's got to be possible, when you're creating a custom universe it is very easy to add in new gates (or at least it was in EL). It was just a matter of adding some lines in the universe.txt file. All it has to do is store your coordinates when you build a gate, and then the coordinates when you build a second gate and link them together.

I'm confident Vice could easily add the feature if it was what he and the community wanted.

Post by **Marvin** » Tue May 10, 2011 4:09 pm

Actually, you don't need a second gate ... just an exit point. What would be cool is if Vice did add the option ... but made it "iffy" ... some gates exit where you want them to but some exit 60 trillion kilometers from nowhere. With no way back. No way home. Except, maybe, via another gate.

If nothing else, it would teach pilots to save often.

xingbing1 · Post by **xingbing1** » Tue May 10, 2011 4:15 pm

Not really. As long as you have a build constructor on you, you could always just build another gate and set the coordinates it goes back to as being somewhere near home... unless you'd need to place some kind of 'marker' at the opposite end, which is required to link the gate to, so you can't just build gates leading anywhere, only places you can get to anyway.
Idk, but gate-building would be awesome.

Rush · Post by **Rush** » Tue May 10, 2011 4:17 pm

I thought many times about this, but I never had a good idea to make it work with a sense.
What you say Marvin is something like a "mega-fulcrum-drive" with some error room.
It could be good, maybe. At least to go to places you already know about (like Sol) without having to wait hours to get there (I've never been to places like Sol because of that).

Post by **DaveK** » Tue May 10, 2011 4:18 pm

Spoiler TextAlert
Hi Pavel

Don't apologise about your English! A few thoughts:

A system connection would actually require two gates - one in each system that is going to be connected. So you would have to go the long way to get there to create a gate at the other end. Are you talking about gates in MP only? That might be fun or useful for MP, though I can't see what being able to build gates would achieve - my lack of imagination I guess!

Which systems are not connected by gates?

Vonari - there is a wormhole from Riftspace and there is an (uncharted) gate to Riftspace
Sol - part of a merc's initiation is to cruise the long way to Sol.

As I see it, the "main" gateless systems (that are part of the Evochron History) are gateless to make them fun to find and to reach. The uncharted systems are obviously not important enough to be worth the expense of such advanced technology.

All the charted systems are connected by the gate network - the longest jump sequence is Deneb to Merak which is only 11 jumps - use MapLog to chart the gates and it only takes a few minutes to cross the Evochron Universe. Uncharted systems wouldn't be uncharted if they had gates to (and hence) from them and with a Class 5 Fulcrum Drive it isn't very time consuming to reach any uncharted system from the nearest charted (and hence gated ) system - with a Mantis Drive it's even quicker

I'm intrigued to hear what uses people would put new gates to!:)

soulsacrifice · Post by **soulsacrifice** » Tue May 10, 2011 5:29 pm

DaveK:

A system connection would actually require two gates - one in each system that is going to be connected. So you would have to go the long way to get there to create a gate at the other end. Are you talking about gates in MP only? That might be fun or useful for MP, though I can't see what being able to build gates would achieve - my lack of imagination I guess!

I would say yes, this is how I would prefere it were it implemented. Basically if there are two areas within Evochron you visit frequently you could set up a short cut as a time-saver.

As I see it, the "main" gateless systems (that are part of the Evochron History) are gateless to make them fun to find and to reach.

Unless you've been to that system the only way would be to use other peoples gates, and if each player had a limit of two gates (one connection) there are still a lot of unknown systems, and that's assuming that's what everyone uses their gates to be able to go to unknown systems. Then you would have to find other peoples gates (which could be occluded from the map to allow clans secret shortcuts only the clan would know about.

The uncharted systems are obviously not important enough to be worth the expense of such advanced technology.

Would be cool if we got to decide that though, I mean if I can afford to run a gate then i'd love to be able to. Think of it as the normal/default gates in Evochron are free because they're paid for by the tax payer, the player gates are are toll roads, costs money but saves time and is there for those who are willing to pay for it. The gates could also have to be refueled/maintained so they are expensive to use and will not spoil the game for the newer player.

All the charted systems are connected by the gate network - the longest jump sequence is Deneb to Merak which is only 11 jumps - use MapLog to chart the gates and it only takes a few minutes to cross the Evochron Universe. Uncharted systems wouldn't be uncharted if they had gates to (and hence) from them and with a Class 5 Fulcrum Drive it isn't very time consuming to reach any uncharted system from the nearest charted (and hence gated ) system - with a Mantis Drive it's even quicker

I'm intrigued to hear what uses people would put new gates to!

I really wouldn't want to see endless gates linking to everywhere, that would get confusing very quickly. In my eyes buildable gates would be used as a shortcut to areas you operate in regularily. For example, your clan could hold and gain ground easily between systems that are very far apart, working on one yet still have the time to return and defend the other if necessary.

I definately think it could add interesting new opportunities for gameplay.

[Edited on 10-5-2011 by soulsacrifice]

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Tue May 10, 2011 5:32 pm

I could also make a total mess of the universe with gates popping up everywhere since you can have 99 profiles.

soulsacrifice · Post by **soulsacrifice** » Tue May 10, 2011 5:35 pm

Limit the number of gates per IP address then (if possible).

[Edited on 10-5-2011 by soulsacrifice]

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Tue May 10, 2011 5:42 pm

Even if it adds some to the game, I think it will ruin it a lot for people that like to
explore the great unknown out there. There wouldn't be much left to discover if
all players only added just 1 pair of gates each.

soulsacrifice · Post by **soulsacrifice** » Tue May 10, 2011 5:49 pm

If the gates didn't appear on the map you could only find other peoples gates if you were within visual range. Practically impossible to find unless you know where to look. (and there could be a ban on gates built near systems which already have gates).

Post by **DaveK** » Tue May 10, 2011 6:36 pm

Apart from linking systems you use a lot to save time - is there any other use? At the moment I have to plan ahead to avaoid too-ing and fro-ing because it takes time and fuel.

xingbing1 · Post by **xingbing1** » Tue May 10, 2011 6:53 pm

How about this for an idea:

-Make gates have a very high build cost. They are built from the build constructor.
-Make gates have a very high running cost. (i.e. you constantly lose money whilst you have them active)
-If you run out of money, then all of your gates automatically switch off - you just see an empty hoop, no big glowy blue portal.
-You can manually switch your gates off if you want to. This would be done from the inventory screen. You don't have to loose money. (have a list appear with all your gates' names, select to activate/deactivate. Perhaps to prevent toggling to lose the least money due to running costs, make it so you can only toggle them off when you are near them)
-When a player travels through a gate, they must pay a certain 'toll' to the builder. This toll could be announced in the chat screen when you near a gate, and would automatically be deducted from your money into the builder's money. This gives an incentive for them to build gates.
-To build a gate, you must select a beacon to link it to. You place this beacon using the deploy constructor, and they are linked to your account. When you build a gate, you must select a beacon, which is where you will appear when you go through it. A beacon will be destroyed once it has been linked to.
-Player-built gates do not appear on your map.
-Thus, when you build a gate, a screen will pop up giving you options:

Name: //type name of gate here//
Who can use it: You / Clan Members / Everyone
Toll: //type number, can be 0//
Who toll applies to: Everyone / Clan Members exempt
Where to build gate to: //select beacon name//

This means that:
-both build and deploy constructors are needed - makes it a little harder
-high costs (and *constant* costs) mean you have to be a high-level player, and the constant costs mean you can't just built it and let it sit there, you have to work for its upkeep (and prevents spamming)
-tolls give a financial incentive, and also make it more interesting.
-Allowing only certain people though the gate / have to pay tolls means you can make them clan-specific etc, or allow some of your friends though for free.
-One-way gates can be set up using the beacon system. (For those who don't know, there are a few one-way gates IIRC) Two-way gates can be set up quite simply by using two beacons/gates.
-Gates not appearing on maps mean they can't be used to just open up hidden planets to everyone, even new pilots - they'll have to find them first! (people telling others where gates are is no big deal - it's similar to just donating money etc, and that can be done anyway)

[Edited on 5-10-2011 by xingbing1]

Post by **DaveK** » Tue May 10, 2011 8:05 pm

A clan could build a gate deep in enemy territory, jump in, make merry mayhem and jump put again without the agrieved clan being able to follow them!

one way gates?? ahhh Sol --> Pearl? Wasn't this turned into a one way gate because the gate in Pearl got destroyed in the war?? If gates are too easy to build then it would be hard to explain why humanity's home system is still gateless after all these years

I've never tried it, but are non-player stations invulnerable to station detonators? It is being suggested that gates would be quite complicated to set up since you need to manage two at a time - if they are too easy to destroy it might dissuade people from going to the trouble of setting them up; if they are to generate tolls, you can't keep them too secret (there is a toll road that's really quick between Manchester (UK) and Devon (UK) that avoids all the holiday traffic queues, but no-one can be told where it starts -:P:P:P:P:P

xingbing1 · Post by **xingbing1** » Tue May 10, 2011 8:47 pm

well, perhaps another option on the set-up screen: visible on map or not?
Also, jumping in, causing mayhem? Isn't that at least half the fun? (And besides, there's only so much mayhem that's possible to cause, so it's not going to turn into a big deal there.)

[Edited on 5-10-2011 by xingbing1]

Post by **DaveK** » Tue May 10, 2011 9:07 pm

I wasn't offering the comment as a criticism - I said in an earlier post that I couldn't see much of a use for them, but actually with lateral thinking they might be more fun than I imagined. What happens if you launch a FT through a gate? Does it pop on contact with the field or would it reappear at the other side and move serenely on?;)

As for only so much mayhem - ask noobies (BattleStar Galactica's "nuggets") about their first meetings with Oasis!

:P Or The Romulan - where has he/she gone?

Has anyone ever used a gate to leave combat? Has anyone actually been chased through a gate? In Independence War a few of the missions involved guarding gates and ambushing the bad guys as they came through.

Speaking of IW - any chance of gun stars - automated defence stations with lots of guns to protect vital assets. Make then very expensive to build and upkeep and clans could use them to defend their stations from annihilation whilst everyone is working at the day job or is asleep. It would also make a head on attack on a station a bit more of a challenge

Post by **Marvin** » Wed May 11, 2011 12:19 am

If you could build gates, I would like to see a server that starts out with no gates and no stations ... only cities. Let the players take it from there. It would make for a very different group of MP pilots.

MiaZ · Post by **MiaZ** » Wed May 11, 2011 5:55 am

Id like to be able to build a gates but I think they should be visible and usable only by the pilot who built it.
Otherwise we would have gates everywhere and it would get messy very quickly.

On the other hand,I heard a rumor there is already a secret jump device technique out there somewhere still waiting to be discovered. ; )

.

Post by **DaveK** » Wed May 11, 2011 3:11 pm

If we move to a transport system where only the person who makes the gate can use it (or even less "realistically" only they can see it - how would it be cloaked?) to faciltate quick trips between a couple of commonly used systems then perhaps it would be easier for Vice to impliment a piece of technology (very hard to find, very expensive to buy and perhaps very expensive to use) that works like a super Fulcrum drive. It would have to be programmed with two coordinates. It is not reprogrammable, exists in an equipment slot in a ship (or 2 or 3), requires a lot of energy and hence a big frame - the secret jump device technique out there somewhere still waiting to be discovered that Miaz mentioned in the post above. That would make it invisible and usable only by the pilot who can track it down and buy it and make it fixed like a two gate link is fixed

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Wed May 11, 2011 5:36 pm

Why not just make it same as in Starlancer, an interstellar travel divice that just opens a gate in front of you to a set destination, then there is no gates cluttering or having to make em hidden or anything.

Make it hard to obtain or better yet make it into a quest like the IMG to obtain this device.

Post by **DaveK** » Wed May 11, 2011 9:15 pm

Why not just play StarLancer?

:P

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Thu May 12, 2011 2:34 am

From post: 107018, Topic: tid=7568, author=DaveK wrote:Why not just play StarLancer? :P

LOL, Dave !

TGS · Post by **TGS** » Sun May 15, 2011 12:26 am

Gate's and gate construction would be very intriguing. But would require something to make it balanced otherwise you are essentially giving people the ability to create a bridge between any two points in space with no real draw back. I am not really sure how Vice could mechanically set that up with the game's engine.

One common option would be that it requires fuel to operate but then how would that work if there is nothing in the game to setup that sort of system. Another option would be limiting them as someone mentioned to 1 per player but how exactly would that work if you can't move them it would be annoying. If you could move them it would be trivial and/or pointless.

Great idea if it could be done properly. But doing it properly would be difficult.