How Good is this game

Pariah · Post by **Pariah** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:28 pm

Thanks for the reply and the link Vice, I enjoyed reading the interview very much.

Regarding a SW3D RTS:

That is actually a direction I have considered and may develop a concept in the near future.

Interesting and exciting possibility.

tha_rami · Post by **tha_rami** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:52 am

Gheh, well, you know what my problem is with a SW3D 100% RTS?

Space RTS's are a strange genre at the moment - and RTS these days is mostly how much particles and light-effects can I put in an explosion. It requires perfect balance, smooth, minimalistic interfaces and a lot of time and dedication. Most of all, it's a huge job. I ain't against, but I ain't for it neither. There are many good ones approaching: JTF, Command & Conquer, ParaWorld... This is a small grasp of what's coming up coming years, and RTS will (and is starting to) manifest itself on consoles too (probably starting with the Wii).

Vice's space sims are 'utterly great' - to repeat that poll. His expertise in the genre definetly shows. If he'd want to do RTS, I'd start out with tactical options like in Arvoch (F1-F2), and expand them more and more into some sort of tactical console. Just staying 1st/3rd person, not birdseye/isometric. No recourses and stuff, or maybe do recourses.

1st person combat/trading mixes with limited forms of RTS, something definetly within your range. RTS itself is very hard to do - and I'd rather see something safe with high potential among space simmers then something with high risk.

Vice, ever heard of the GTA-approach? Missions pop up on your radar, and you're offered with the choice of using pre-placed equipment (for example, a car) or your own stuff (steal a tank). In SW3D Games, that would leave place for for both type of sims. A 'combat' player can use the fleet/squad/ships he's offered, for a little payment (which he earns back with succesion payment) and ofcourse a fine for losing stuff. All he'd have to do in between is jump to the next missions. The navigation map would then act as some sort of menu, instead of a navigation console. All the player would do is click on the mission symbol of the desired mission and jump. He'd need to buy some fuel every now and then, but he earns enough in missions. A 'merc' player can take his own squad, buy ships and equipment and maybe have some interesting twists in missions. The navigation console would then be used as usual.

I'm still someone who'd prefer saving to be limited to stations/radar range of stations, by the way.

[Edited on 10-10-06 by tha_rami]

verbosity · Post by **verbosity** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:22 am

I'm afraid i have to say i agree with Rami on this one.

I enjoy RTS' mainly from the westwood studio (C&C, Dune ETC) though I have played many others. I find often when I'm playing that i turn off any effects as they are surplus to the game - Warhammer was a recent example of this. The reason C&C is in my view the Best of genre is that it balances the different areas' that a RTS' requires (reasource gathering unit manfacture and combat). Although homeworld was good, it's a classic example of how tricky getting the balance can be.

I've always had a preference for turn based (civilation etc) mainly as it offers more depth and always wanted to play star trek : birth of the federation for a space exapmle of this.

Also there was epoch star posted in the space sims forum, i could imagine that being a nice framework fgor a RTS

Pariah · Post by **Pariah** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:50 am

I'd imagine that the core group of players here, having arrived on a quest to find great space sims, would probably feel this way. If the question came down to "Would you rather see a new sequel to Evochron or a SW3D RTS?", I don't think there would probably be much debate lol

. Having said that I think that Vice certainly posesses the talent and skill to produce a high quality entertaining RTS, it's probably just not at the top of the player most wantd list.

verbosity · Post by **verbosity** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:29 pm

If I was to see a sw3d RTs I'd want it to be along the lines of here is this battle thats what you've got type of thing- sort of the C&C levels where you don't get a base - or occasionaly get a base that throws out what it can when it can (eg reinforcements ).

Most RTS' seem to give you about an hour a level the equates to a long running battle front. I'd like a sort of battfield commander type of role where i choose the strategy ( possible before hand - like you could do in the fps rainbow 6) but then make adjustments. From what I've played so far in SW you get what is there and make the best - so sort of a historical enactment type game - that would be soo cool. mind you the 3d aspect could cause issues - i've yet to find another set of games ( beyond sw3d) that did 3d space well () I got soo bored of homeworld - it just had too slow a pace for me.

hey if anyone knows of such a game let me know.

tha_rami · Post by **tha_rami** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:47 am

For RTS combined with 1st person 3D action, there is one game I know that did it good. It's called Urban Assault, and a demo is still available (google for it, the site with HOST STATION in the name). Still, I think Vice CAN do it, I just think he's got a perfected space-sim engine and it would be a shame to drop that, even if it would be for a genre I love as much as RTS.

The SW3D universe doesn't lend itself for traditional RTS so well. It would be mostly a Homeworld-like game, space RTS. Which is tough to make, and if you drop the 3D part it would be a shame.

Nemesis · Post by **Nemesis** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:23 am

I want to give my overall feedback:

Arvoch Conflict is technically the greatest space thing ever and it has a great storyline. Nevertheless, there are some points I want to point out:

1. Alternative storyline depending on success and failure in the missions; there is an extra thread about that issue, which I updated:

http://www.starwraith.com/forum/viewtop ... 1#pid18791

2. The promotion system: I have completed eight missions and already equal my superior officer (CAG Commander Shores) in rank. It appears like I will easily outrank him by finishing the game. The promotion system is great in a game like TIE-Fighter, But in an epic game series like Star Wraith (or Wing Commander) you sometimes like to stay with your character. OK, the time between Reviction and Arvoch Conflict makes that impossible. Wing Commander II had an option to import old Wing Commander characters, but nevertheless it should take longer to get promoted. I prefer a version without military ranks.

3. Wingmen: You always have a squad of anonymous wingmen. What about wingmen you can compete with? There could be a textfile with callsigns and when you create a new pilot there are ten or fifteen of the callsigns picked and a killtable is created (like in the ship's bar in WC). Depending on which wingmen are assigned to your squad (it doesn't matter if this happens automated or you choose them), they will have the chance to improve their ranking on the table.

I am looking forward to your comments...

tha_rami · Post by **tha_rami** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:43 pm

Nemesis, those options for wingmen are already in another SW3D game named RiftSpace. I must say I like the idea but I'd like to see it more pronounced than this or not implemented at all.

I like the promotional system, it gives a feeling of progress. However, I agree you progress much too fast. Maybe a bit slow-down on progressing.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:01 pm

Another possibility:
You do poorly, and one of your wingmen does much better, so he is selected to lead the squad and you are made on of his wingmen, thus forcing you to be the one taking commands.

Just a thought.

Post by **Vice** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:11 pm

#2 on your list is probably something I can implement quickly for the next update, so promotions will be much slower in the next update (the game will auto convert any existing profiles to the new promotion system).