Please help me understand the velocity gauges

[CaptainTurgid]

I am new to this game and excited about getting into it. But I am pulling my hair out trying to understand the most basic instruments. So for any of you gurus who have mastered this game, please help me out here before I go prematurely bald.

When I start the tutorial, is see that the SET and FVL indicators both equal 238. That immediately raises a few questions:

1) Without touching my controls, why is it that the AVL immediately starts zooming up to around 8600? I think that the AVL is measured in relation to some sort of "galactic constant" (which I guess is really some special point in the universe that all measurements can be taken from), but what is making me accelerate in relation to that, when my FVL isn't changing? My VVL and HVL indicators also show me instantly accelerating, settling at around a value of approximately 6050. Can someone explain this apparent acceleration?

2) I also see what I understand are "motion ladders", which I think are the four continually moving ladders in my ship's window that lead to a point below and to the left of me (as verified by the "V" and ">" arrows preceding the VVL and HVL values). Those motion ladders appear to converge at a point that is identified in the 3D radar display with the light blue four brackets making a circle around it. And this is what I find especially baffling: I have IDS on and am pointed at a heading of 0 degrees as well as 0 degrees on my flight ladder, meaning I am traveling straight ahead and level. My IDS is on which means that my ship's thrusters should be trying to steer the ship in the direction I am pointed, right? Yet the motion ladders indicate that I am steadily going down and to the left. Why is that?

3) And what determines the position of that special point identified by those four brackets that the motion ladders point to?


Perhaps an answer to those questions will answer the next, but this also baffles me:

Here I am going at FVL=238, but when I slightly press the pedal to yaw 10 degrees to the right (with IDS still on) my FVL suddenly changes to over 800, and then it suddenly starts showing negative values before eventually rising up to the value of my SET level of 238. Does a FVL value that is negative mean that I am decelerating? Or going backwards? If decelerating, I can understand that a forward thruster would need to decelerate me a bit in the forward "Z" axis and a horizontal left-side thruster would need to kick in a bit to move my ship to toward the new X axis value, but that means that the FVL is meaning something different than my "forward velocity" as those thrusters are powering up, right? I mean, there is no way that my forward velocity is suddenly increasing to over 800 and then suddenly going negative (whatever that really means). I am left wondering if maybe there was an attempt to show some sort of value for acceleration instead of velocity -- mistakenly combining the two concepts in a single instrument's value.

I think I am missing something really basic here, but I just don't know what it is. Can someone straighten me out -- and save my hair?

[Vice]

Hi CaptainTurgid,

For #1, it's likely you have one or more axis or button controls mapped to a thruster input that is continually applying an active thruster in a direction that is raising your ship's overall speed. AVL is the 'Absolute Velocity Level' regardless of direction. So if FVL and SET are staying at 238, then you likely have a lateral thruster active that is pushing your ship horizontally and/or vertically. Check the HVL and VVL indicators to see if that is the case. You can then either center the axis input applying the thruster or unbind the axis and/or button from the thruster control entirely if you don't want to use it.

For #2, it is likely related to #1. Check your axis and button input bindings to see if one or more are not centered (axis) or is active (button/switch) and thus, applying thruster input down and left. Since you're drifting in multiple directions, that likely indicates you have two uncentered axis inputs or buttons mapped to horizontal and vertical thruster control. The control input indicator at the top of the HUD is also likely not centered, indicating it is receiving thruster control input.

For #3, that (radar brackets and centered HUD brackets) is the FPM, or Flight Path Marker. The tunnel points in the same direction. Together, they all indicate the direction your ship is actually travelling at. This way, you can tell what you are flying toward if and when you are not flying precisely in the direction the nose of your ship is facing.

The effects described in your last paragraph are related to the condition of active thrusters drifting your ship and it moving in a direction other than where its nose is facing. The change in direction is modifying your velocity indicators as your ship rotates to account for how those velocities transfer as the direction of your ship changes.

A negative FVL value means you are flying backwards relative to the orientation of your ship. If you fly forward at say, 1000, then rotate/yaw around 180 degrees quickly, you'll then be flying backwards at about 1000, so your FVL indicator will show -1000. As you rotate, the overall velocity of your ship will transfer from FVL to HVL as that momentum shifts from the forward direction to the horizontal direction. By the time you reach around 90 degrees to the left or right, the HVL indicator will be indicating either left or right 1000. Then by the time you reach 180, the indicated velocity will have fully transferred over to -1000 on FVL.

You might find this video helpful in explaining these concepts and more in flying 6DOF in open 3D space:



And this section in the instructions may also help with such concepts, including zero gravity physics and an overview of each of the velocity indicators and what they mean:

https://www.starwraith.com/evochronlega ... me.htm#505

[CaptainTurgid]

Thank you so much for getting back to me so soon, Vice. I think you must be right that there is some conflict among inputs, but I still can't see where that could be. I went ahead and checked the mappings of everything, and even went so far as to remove any buttons that had anything to do with throttle or joystick axes movements, temporarily for now. No change at all.

It still isn't clear why the FPM is still starting off in the lower left of the 3D radar display -- not in the gunsight reticule, and with the motion ladders converging toward it. Like I say, my nose of the ship is pointing directly ahead based on the compass and flight ladder.
This is very weird, especially since this is all before I even touch my controls. And as soon as the screen is displayed, the AVL, VVL and HVL indicators start racing up in values, without any change to my FVL value. Some magical force is hurling my ship downward to the left, without me touching a thing.

I watched your video (along with others on YouTube) which, along with your response above, did clear up some details. Fortunately it appears that my understanding of the craft physics seems pretty solid (I think). And having flown MSFS and DCS aircraft over the years helped me understand a lot of the differences between the space vs. air issues you mention, but I won't say I am an expert. It is clear from the video that my ship indicators don't respond at all like yours do in the video.

A couple of things that still aren't clear to me that might be an issue is the fact that my Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS has a split throttle, both halves of which I can decouple. I currently have them locked together. When setting up the axis for the throttle, one throttle appears in Axis #4 and the other in Axis #5. I set the throttle for #4 only since the display shows both moving together equally. I left the values for Set Axis and Full Range unchecked and checked the Afterburner box. (I don't know what the Set Axis does or why there is a Full Range box here since I set the latter with a button.) The throttle works fine when adjusting the SET velocity value in the game. I tried also decoupling the throttles and simply use the #4 axis setting for one of them, but it had no change in the game, as expected. I also tried setting one of the split throttles to the Inertial Forward/Reverse axis, but that had no visible impact when I was flying, so I undid that. I don't know what that axis is for and I can't find where that is explained anywhere. It almost appears that there are controls separate for when I am in inertial vs. IDS mode, but right now, I am assuming they are the same.

When I watched your video, there is no question that things are going wrong on my screen. What is happening with the various velocity values for you is what I was expecting when going into the tutorial, but everything is awry here. I even switched keyboards and their ports to make sure that some sort of random signals weren't playing havoc with the game. Still no joy.

While the ship appears to pitch, roll, yaw as expected in space, it doesn't do so very well when I am in a space station, whereupon my ship bounces all over the side walls, only barely responding to my controls, and I can barely get out except by using the LAUNCH mode.

So, I remain baffled. Maybe there is something in my control settings. I could send you a PDF of the images of each of the settings pages so that you can review what I have set so far. I haven't gone enough into the tutorials to see what all the functions do and how I might want to map them, but perhaps what I have might be of benefit in resolving this. Would that help?

In the meantime, I TRULY appreciate your feedback. You have put a herculean effort into what I expect is a truly wonderful game and I look forward to playing it soon!

[Vice]

That is strange behavior. One test you could run is switch the flight control type in the main Options menu to a 'Mouse' or 'Keyboard' mode, then enter the game. If the problem goes away, then there must be some signal(s) coming in from a control device that is applying thruster input. From there, it would require pinning down which controller and what signal(s) it is sending. You can optionally use this small utility program to monitor all input signals from all control devices you have plugged in to your system:

https://www.starwraith.com/evochronlega ... vanced.zip

Simply extract the program and run it from anywhere. It will display all detected devices and display their raw input data. It uses the same control system as the game, so what this program sees the game will also (which is in turn, effectively what Windows sees through your control device's driver(s)). If you see live button input signals and/or uncentered axis inputs, it may help pin down where the signals are coming in from.

Another possibility is you may have some kind of external/third party software for your control device(s) running in the background that is sending keyboard, button, and/or axis input signals that the game is simply responding to. If so, that software would either need to be disabled or configured to apply the control inputs you prefer for the game.

I don't know what the Set Axis does or why there is a Full Range box here since I set the latter with a button.

These are optional control selections. The first is for adding or subtracting the set axis value, rather than setting by absolute. The full range option applies the full range mode initially, allowing you to activate that as the default mode when you launch the game, rather than having to manually activate in once in the game.

I also tried setting one of the split throttles to the Inertial Forward/Reverse axis, but that had no visible impact when I was flying, so I undid that. I don't know what that axis is for and I can't find where that is explained anywhere. It almost appears that there are controls separate for when I am in inertial vs. IDS mode, but right now, I am assuming they are the same.

Your conclusion is correct. One is for the IDS mode, then other is for inertial. When the IDS is on, the 'Set' value applies a fixed cruise speed level for the ship to align itself with. In inertial mode, you can manually apply forward and reverse thruster control in the same way you can apply manual horizontal and vertical thruster control. When the IDS is on, the computer controls forward and reverse velocity automatically to match whatever set speed you select. When the IDS is off, you are placed in control and can variably apply those thrusters manually. And if your control device can provide multiple throttle inputs like yours does, you can even specify separate input controls for both modes. You can also optionally bind the forward/reverse thruster control to the same axis as the set throttle axis control so the same input can be used while in either mode (although that can be a bit surprising if you forget to center the control when changing IDS modes

Lets try the steps I listed above first. If we can't pin down the issue through that, we'll go through some other ideas. I'm sure there is some way to sort out what is happening.

[CaptainTurgid]

SUCCESS !!!!!!!!!

I downloaded the Joystick test program. I have MFG Crosswind V2 foot pedals. The pedals, in addition to sliding them forward-backward for the yaw control, also can be toe-pressed downward separately. The joystick test program showed each with values = 1 when not pressed. That made me suspicious. Back in the game, the setup program showed the axis slider for the pedal-presses all the way to the left, which is each pedal in the heel-down position, as they would be flying an aircraft in DCS. In EL, I had those pedals bound to the horizontal and vertical strafe functions (not really knowing what those functions really were in the game when I did it).

So I unbound the strafe functions, leaving the yaw bound. And sure enough, back in the game, the FPM properly appeared right in the gunsight reticule, and the AVL, VVL and HVL indicators are stable at null values. Moving the pedals to yaw the ship caused the values to move just as they do in your YouTube video. I then rebound the two pedals to the same functions, but this time checked the Invert checkbox -- hoping that this might set the lower-bound value from "1" to zero. The game went back to the crazy way it was, so I unbound them again, which is where they are now.

I don't know what to do to make the pedals fully functional so that when pressed down, they will do something positive. I also don't know yet what the idea of using an axis-based controller for strafing really means in this game, but I just have to get to that in the tutorial, I suppose. Is there any way to make my pedals do something useful in the game?

[Vice]

The strafe inputs are designed for full range negative and positive axis inputs, so from -1.0 to 1.0 or comparatively, -1000 to 1000. However, you can also map one directional axis inputs to button functions. To do that, use the Key/Button Configuration menu, select the 'Strafe Left' option to prompt the game to listen for input, then press the left pedal. That will map whatever directional input the pedal wants to return to the left strafe control (regardless of whether it is positive or negative). Then do the same for the 'Strafe Right' control option with the right pedal.

Another option might be to use MFG's software ( https://mfg-sim.com/en/content/7-downloads ) and its 'Combine with' option to consolidate two mono-directional axis inputs into one bi-directional axis input with a negative and positive range, if you might want that approach to input on one channel. I haven't used their software or devices myself, but have heard that they offer pretty flexible configuration options for setting things up like that.

Axis based strafe control is just one option for players that want that level of control. But many just use a binary input, such as a HAT/POV switch. And you can apply the same kind of input for strafe or some other control using an axis input as well for a more binary input as described above.