[EL 1.01X] X55 does not work properly in Windows 10 *FIXED*

[NLS]

They don't run, says I am missing MSVCR100D.dll.
I do have Visual C++ runtimes installed (various versions).
This calls the debug version of the library though. Is this what you wanted?


[Edited on 3-2-2016 by NLS]

[Vice]

Ok, recompiled the test programs without the dependencies, same download as before:

http://www.starwraith.com/evochronlegacy/X55Test.zip

[NLS]

Am I the only one that bothers?

OK this is really weird Vice, read on:

1) Not sure if this changed or I got confused before, but with my setup, irrelevant of which is preferred device, I can only open (OS) "test" tab for stick.

2) With stick set as primary device, X55Test-Stick runs properly and detects axis/buttons of stick fine. BUT X55Test-Throttle says it detects no device and quits.

3) With throttle set as primary device, X55Test-Stick says it detects no device and quits and (now sit down) X55Test-Throttle... works AGAIN with stick axis and buttons!
Read again: With throttle as primary, stick DOES get detects by your program... as throttle.

4) Removing throttle from the hub, makes X55Test-Stick work properly detecting stick axis/buttons. Also makes X55Test-Throttle work "properly" detecting that there is no throttle device.

5) Removing stick from the hub (and putting throttle back on), I hope you are still sitting down... makes BOTH X55Test-Stick and X55Test-Throttle detect the throttle's axis/buttons! (and actually this is the only way to see the throttle with your test programs).

6) Now for the heck of it I DID remove both stick and throttle and put them on two onboard USB ports. Well... sorry to say. SAME exact behavior! (repeat 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 above)
EXACTLY same behavior even if I mix things: Leave stick on USB hub (which is on PCI USB card) and put throttle on on-board USB port!
So it is totally irrelevant of the port configuration I choose! (So I am not just an bad mannered guy that refuses to choose other USB ports to solve his problem - which lifts a weight from my chest )

7) Other games still work fine.

The good thing is that this verifies that stick doesn't get "disabled" by not selecting it as primary.
The bad thing is... well everything else.

Offer for teamviewer still open.

[Edited on 4-2-2016 by NLS]

[Vice]

Thank you for looking into it. It may not be a widespread problem (works 100% for me and several others running Windows 10 and X55 sticks/throttles), so there may only be a few who encounter it and could help out with testing.

Those test programs are adjusted versions of Microsoft's own sample code, so not even their own system is working in that configuration for some reason. It also indicates that in order to try and get it to work, it may require bypassing the entire control system that works with every other control device on Windows 10 just to write something via RawInput only for the X55 (and only because it can't have its device ID's sorted correctly in Windows on a few systems). And even then, there may be no guarantee it will work.

Not an appealing option to say the least. I'm still waiting to hear back from Madcatz as I'd like to know what they have to say on port/ID assignment in their driver before making such a significant move that will likely require a lengthy development timeframe and be something that may be fixed anyway by them in a driver update later on.

[NLS]

Problem with MadCatz is that they are the MadCatz and not Saitek.
It's like McDonald's buying an expensive restaurant line and putting McDonald's managers to manage them.

I would ask fellow devs if I were you (yes, including from "competing" products). I am positive they will help (or at least hint) you.

Let me know if you need anything else.
(because basically I can't actually play the game - not even EM now that I have X55)

[Vice]

I've sent another request via the Madcatz ticket support system with specific details and examples. I'm getting a pretty clear picture of what is going wrong and where... as well as what would be required to work around it.

It'd be a shame to have to spend so much time on an entirely separate control system just for one device's issue on one operating system that some players encounter and also one that would risk breaking or otherwise introducing bugs into the current control system as the two would have to try to work side-by-side. Replacing the current functional system entirely also isn't a very practical or desirable option.

If I'm left with no other choice, then I can begin the process of trying to develop such a separate system. It will mean putting a lot of other development efforts on hold or at least delayed for a long time to do so though. So it's a last option if nothing else can or will be done.

Here is another test that I'd like to get results on. This one select from all available devices (including mouse and keyboard), so you'll need to scroll through until you find the ones that respond for the stick and throttle.

http://www.starwraith.com/evochronlegacy/X55Test2.zip

[Edited on 2-6-2016 by Vice]

[Valkyrient]

I've sent another request via the Madcatz ticket support system with specific details and examples. I'm getting a pretty clear picture of what is going wrong and where... as well as what would be required to work around it.

It'd be a shame to have to spend so much time on an entirely separate control system just for one device's issue on one operating system that some players encounter and also one that would risk breaking or otherwise introducing bugs into the current control system as the two would have to try to work side-by-side. Replacing the current functional system entirely also isn't a very practical or desirable option.

If I'm left with no other choice, then I can begin the process of trying to develop such a separate system. It will mean putting a lot of other development efforts on hold or at least delayed for a long time to do so though. So it's a last option if nothing else can or will be done.

Here is another test that I'd like to get results on. This one select from all available devices (including mouse and keyboard), so you'll need to scroll through until you find the ones that respond for the stick and throttle.

http://www.starwraith.com/evochronlegacy/X55Test2.zip

[Edited on 2-6-2016 by Vice]

I got some promising results with this one:

Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Stick (Joystick) - reports all functions perfectly
Saiteh Pro Flight X-55 Rhino THrottle (First-person) - reports all functions perfectly

Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Throttle (Generic device) - nothing
Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Stick (Generic device) - nothing

[Vice]

Thanks for the results. Was this still with the device working correctly in the game also?

[Valkyrient]

Thanks for the results. Was this still with the device working correctly in the game also?

Throttle works in game, stick does not. I had to reinstall the X-55 driver file to make the Saitek H.U.D. software working again after my last workaround attempt, which broke the stick in EV again - though it does work in that most recent test app, but only in Joystick/First-person options.

[NLS]

Ok here are my results...

Device 7 of 19, Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Stick (Generic device) = Reports nothing. I mean it shows no controls at all (like it has no axes or buttons).
Device 10 of 19, Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Stick (Joystick) - WORKS! Three axis and 0-16 buttons (14-16 match no real button).
Device 15 of 19, Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Throttle (First-person) - WORKS! 8 axis (last two are the mouse thumb) and 0-34 buttons (31-33 match no real button).
Device 19 of 19, Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Throttle (Generic device) = Reports nothing. I mean it shows no controls at all (like it has no axes or buttons).

Very interesting and good progress!

EDIT: Checked game also after your last update. Stick works, throttle not.


[Edited on 6-2-2016 by NLS]

[BangHowdy]

Had some time to test today.

I'm back to the stick and throttle not working in the game. The stick and throttle are listed in joy.cpl but the test tab is blank.

I can follow Valkyriant's instructions and eventually get them working but here are my test results while they aren't working.

X55Test

Stick - Joystick not found. The sample will now exit.
Throttle - Joystick not found. The sample will not exit.

X55Test2

Device 5/14: Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Stick (Generic device) - blank
Device 7/14: Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Throttle (Generic device) - blank
Device 8/14: Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Stick (Joystick) - all three axis work. All buttons and hats work.
Device 13/14: Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Throtte (First-person) - X and Y axis work. All buttons, switches and dials work.

[Vice]

That is very promising and it's very good that these results were achieved when one of the devices is not working in the game, should provide the needed information.

[Eduardolicious]

oh hey so, just registered since i posted in the steam forum about this and figured id hunt around for an 'official' forum

i have an X55 as well, and win10x64 as well, and spent about four hours last night playing the tutorial, setting up my axes/bindings, etc. everything worked great

now today, nothing. all my binds/axes are still in there but i cant get the binding page to respond to anything. when i launch my ship just spins like an axis is stuck

was an update pushed out since..ionno i guess i was playing about 24 hours ago?

[Eduardolicious]

oh and if it matters, i was using..probably pretty old drivers yesterday. when it stopped working today i tried updating drivers/software but still nothing. and while i'm at it, heres the results of the x55test2.zip i see above (sorry didnt know about it to test before i updated my drivers):

3: x55 throttle (generic), nothing
4: x55 throttle (firstperson), working
6: x55 stick (generic), nothing
(trying to go over to 7 at this point crashes the app lol, but i can go in reverse)
10: x55 stick (joystick), working

[Eduardolicious]

ok last post (sorry for whoevers moderating these lol)

combed through this thread a bit and found the instructions about deleting devices and rescanning, and..seems to be working now? will keep that in mind going forward

[Vice]

Thanks for posting your results, glad you have it working again mostly now. Seems keeping the X55 devices locked in on Windows 10 can also be a problem. I'm working with another person and we're trying to iron out a solution. It may be a while though, the problem is not easy to work around since the problem only occurs on Windows 10 and not every other version of Windows using the same devices and driver.

Edit: Also, when the test app crashed after ID index 7, was there an error message that displayed? If not, what was recorded in the Windows error log for the test app?

[Edited on 2-7-2016 by Vice]

[Eduardolicious]

the error message it spits on #7 is 'Failed to Initialize Image from PixelMap'

also, not sure if this helps at all, but we just had a power bump while i was playing (thank you, autosave) and when my computer came back up they werent working again. so i think it really is something as simple as the devices getting a different id each boot for...reasons

now that i think about it, i seem to recall this being a problem with Freespace Open, but if i remember correctly their response is basically 'the next version will detect devices differently' and no actual fix as of now, but i havent checked in a while

[Vice]

Seems to be related to device ID assignment (which appears to change in Windows 10 after a reboot) and/or problems with the type of ID assigned to the second device (ie 'first person' controller rather than 'joystick' or 'gamepad') and how Windows 10 handles that. Oddly this is only a problem in Windows 10. So I'm not sure if the problem rests with the driver or how the OS is handling what the driver is reporting to it. Since virtually every other device works fine in Windows 10 (including other Saitek devices), it would seem it's specific to the driver being used with the X55. It does appear possible to try and work around the problem (the above tests and other games seem to verify that), so it's apparently a matter of using a different approach to device input than would normally apply.

[Eduardolicious]

finding out its a madcatz driver issue would be zero percent surprising. for as amazing as this hardware is, the software is a huge turd

i have no idea how polling hardware works on the dev side but hope all this is helpful and not a huge disaster to deal with. now that i know i can just delete/rescan whenever it dinks up its not the end of the world at least lol

[Radikal]

So this has been nailed down to Windows 10?
I really,really want a Rhino, I can stick with Win7 easily enough.
Next hardware buy is a PS3 eye camera for FaceTrackNoIr, Rhino in the summer.

[Vice]

I don't think Windows 10 is 'causing' it per se, but yes, the problem only occurs on Windows 10. The cause of the problem may have more to do with what the driver is telling Windows the device is (some kind of 'first person' device rather than 'joystick' or 'gamepad') and then how Windows 10 is handling that.

Some people use the X55 on Windows 10 just fine (myself included on two Windows 10 systems). But some run into this problem of one or both devices not returning signals like they should. Any other version of Windows (at least Vista on up) generally works fine with the X55.

[NLS]

So... waiting for your fix around this?

[Vice]

It isn't really a 'fix' (the problem isn't really with the game or Windows 10 anyway) nor is it quick. It is requiring a near ground up rewrite of the game controller input system... so it may take a while. Then there will be testing involved to make sure existing functionality continues to work properly. Along the way, there will also be some new control options included into the feature set and these things do take time, even when two people are working on it. If we rush through it, there will just be that many more bugs to fix later on. It needs to be done as carefully and correctly as reasonably possible.

I've been maintaining a pace of about 14-16 hour coding days for going on about a month now and it's certainly taken its toll. The prospect of venturing into something like this after such a schedule for so long has not been appealing to say the least. But I assure you, it's near the top of my priority list and has been something that's been getting worked on a lot in recent days.

[Vice]

I got a reply back from Madcatz today, which seemed to imply the problem may be solved by making sure the correct pre-requisites were installed in Windows 10 and that the latest chipset driver was installed for the motherboard being used. Here is their advice:


Please try the following troubleshoot:

1.) Please ensure that your Windows Operating system has installed the most recent Windows Updates.

2.) Please ensure that your Microsoft .NET Framework is up to date (V.4.6) - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/downloa ... x?id=48130

3.) Try updating your motherboard USB Chipset driver.

Find out your motherboard model number.
One way is to take the side off your PC and visually check the model number printed directly onto the motherboard.
Another way is to press Start and type > [system information]. This will bring up your PC System Information. Check the BaseBoard Manufacturer and the BaseBoard Model. These will be the same as the visual check
Go to the motherboard manufacturer site and download the USB Chipset Driver for your model. Sometimes the only option is an all-in-one driver which should be fine to use.
Once the chipset drivers are installed try using your Mad Catz product again.

4.) Enable legacy .NET Framework:

Enable .Net Framework 2.0 And 3.5

From the Start screen type: windows features and select Turn Windows features on or off.

The Windows Features screen will come up on the desktop. Tick the box next to.NET Framework 3.5 (includes .NET 2.0 and 3.0) and click OK.

Wait while .NET Framework is installed on your system — it only takes a few seconds. Immediately afterward you’ll be prompted to download updates for it.

5.) Please download the latest driver according to your Operating System (http://www.saitek.com/uk/down/drivers.php)


You will need to install the Windows 10 Driver regarding the X-55 with the X-55 initially disconnected.


They also indicated that the information I provided (sample code and specific details) to them would be forwarded as technical feedback. Not sure what that means, but this is where it's at with them.

Work continues on an internal solution.

[NLS]

OK this seems like a semi-automated reply that would go to an end customer not a dev.
So I am hoping for your internal solution OR if the details you send some time reach their dev team and their dev team bothers to read it.