[EM, AA] Sound Distortion Issues when firing weapons *INFO*

[Zach]

I don't know if this is something anyone else has experienced, but I think I've always had this issue; its just now starting to bug me though..

Not sure if its the quality of the sound recordings, or something to do with the way the engine plays the audio, but I get heavy audio distortion / disruption..

It's not really "static" but sounds like issues you would get with buffering or latency issues. i.e anyone whose ever used a digital audio workstation and set the latency too low or used too small an audio buffer, should know what I mean..

It seems that the beam cannons are primarily responsible for this. It's really noticeable in EM if you fire both particle and beam weapons at once, and in Arvoch Alliance, it is clearly noticeable just from firing the beam weapons only.

I don't believe its a local system issue, as I don't have audio problems with other games / applications. I don't use analog audio so I doubt its interference of any kind.

Latest version of both games, EM registered, AA demo
---
Windows 7 x64
Auzentech X-Fi Forte 7.1 optical out (DTS 5.1 @ 48Khz)
HD 7950
i5 3570K
16GB RAM

[Edited on 6-7-2014 by Zach]

[Vice]

There can be a number of causes for such effects. Considering its effect is limited to particular games and with particular sounds from those games, and by your description of what you're hearing, I would venture to guess it is in the way your audio device is filtering, compressing, and/or resampling through its algorithms, then playing back the sound in its altered form. It could also be related to the 'stacking' of the playback output.

If it's more on the distortion side of things, it could be more related to how the device is handling playing back so many channels of audio at once. When you fire particle cannons, you start playing back the sound effect through multiple channels/indexes. As those channels 'stack', it increases the demand on whatever audio device you are using and can also increase the volume as the sounds combine. So you could be running into a 'clipping' scenario, where the device output limits are being reached for its current volume/gain/effect settings, or exceeding its playback capability (which might also be related to whatever settings it is using). One step you can try is to check your internal volume/gain/effect settings and see if one or more of them may be over-boosting your audio output as sounds start to stack, resulting in distortion. This generally resolves such issues.

Some sound devices can also have certain performance issues, sometimes with particular hardware configurations (ie motherboards). This often produces a kind of static/crackling/stuttering effect (ie buffering/latency type effects). And those problems may only be brought to the surface by a game that is reaching whatever performance limits may be in place.

Another test you can run is to disable your separate audio device and try temporarily using the built-in motherboard audio device and observe the difference.

This post and its included link may also be of interest to you: http://www.starwraith.com/forum/viewtop ... #pid139266

[Zach]

Well I figured out that using DTS Connect or Dolby Digital Live encoding I get distortion, if I turn them off then it will output a 96Khz Stereo only PCM stream, and the sounds do not distort.

With them enabled I notice clicks and pops as well, (and some distortion in the music) when the game starts, when I go from the menu system into the game, and when I exit the game completely.. It seems to be related to the audio engine for sure...

But I'm still not really satisfied with that solution; I own hundreds of games where this isn't an issue, undoubtedly using various audio engines of their own, from Stereo to multichannel / 3D sound and none of them really exhibit behavior like this. Stereo sources come through fine as well, there is no channel upmixing going on with my setup unless I specifically enable it, or use a DSP plugin in an audio program, etc.

Not sure what else I could tweak with them enabled to get rid of it, nor do I understand why it would cause an issue with SW3D games only.

Is there anything you could tweak in a test version or something? An increase or decrease the buffer / latency?

[Edited on 6-8-2014 by Zach]

[Vice]

With them enabled I notice clicks and pops as well, (and some distortion in the music) when the game starts, when I go from the menu system into the game, and when I exit the game completely.. It seems to be related to the audio engine for sure...

That appears to confirm what can occur with other discrete sound devices, although usually in general and not a specific game (or at least varies from game to game and/or setting to setting).

Is there anything you could tweak in a test version or something? An increase or decrease the buffer / latency?

Not really, the game merely sends the sound data out to the Windows audio stack and then its up to the sound driver and device to handle it, however it can or can't. The fact you can get the problem to go away by changing the processing mode suggests it's root cause is in how the device/driver is handling what it is receiving, negatively effecting the eventual output somewhere along the way for whatever reason(s).

I'd be curious to know more elements about your configuration, such as the motherboard make and model plus the driver version you are using with your sound device. Although it may not be related, when I've researched this kind of thing in the past in a variety of games, it has frequently been related to the filtering/processing some sound cards do, altering the wave form from its original (that is, how the original wave form is processed by the device's compression/effect algorithms, often referred to as 'audio enhancement algorithms' in the marketing of such devices), and/or due to compatibility issues with certain hardware and/or performance limitations, and the resulting altered output (which is different from the sound stream originally sent to the device) can be clipped, stuttered, distorted, or scratchy. For example, Creative offers this support article regarding one issue that causes these kinds of audio 'artifacts' here: http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArti ... ?sid=24669 It includes information on one hardware linked cause and also covers several software related causes.

One thing you can try is replacing some of the game's existing sounds with your own test sounds, then see if there is a difference. Since it's most pronounced with weapon sounds, download one of the replacement weapon sound mods and play around with the sample rates and quality. The replacement sounds will be sent through to Windows in exactly the same way as the built-in sound effects, so by changing them, you might be able to determine if there is a particular sample rate/bit rate that might be involved in what the sound device can or can't handle very well.

[Zach]

I'll see about getting some replacement sounds and report back.

FWIW I don't use any sound enhancement stuff. The only feature really enabled is EAX (assumed it was for games but it occurs it may just be environmental stuff for music) which I will try disabling as well.

edit:
I got the sounds available here
http://www.starwraith.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10076

There is no distortion in the test I did in EM, firing single and both primaries at once..

This leads me to believe the issue may be with the quality of the stock sound files. Or for some reason the way modded sounds are loaded is doing something different?

Would you be kind enough to provide me with unpacked original sound files so I can compare their information on my end?

edit2:
Also confirmed replacement sounds correct distortion when firing weapons in Arvoch Alliance as well..


[Edited on 6-9-2014 by Zach]

[Edited on 6-9-2014 by Zach]

[Vice]

FWIW I don't use any sound enhancement stuff.

It isn't necessarily enhancement stuff you enable or select, it's often built into the sound device you use. They may refer to it as something like 'sound enhancement engine' or 'audio enhancement algorithm(s)', but what that can refer to is a resampling system that takes input data and then changes it through a series of routines and filters, then renders an altered format of the original sound. Perhaps that system works fine with certain audio sample/bit formats and not others on your system. Maybe there are performance implications to consider as well. Add in other possible performance limitations that could be potentially caused by other hardware factors outside of the sound device itself (as detailed in the support page from Creative at the link above) and the problem might get worse.

Another step you can try is simply turning down the volume setting in the game's Options menu. This has the effect of internally reducing the level of audio output sent from the game to the sound device. From there, you can increase the volume outside of the game to build more volume externally from the speakers, if desired. If the problem does go away, then it may be more related to how the sound device's internal processing mechanisms are handling the various building layers of sound at a particular sample format.

The only feature really enabled is EAX (assumed it was for games but it occurs it may just be environmental stuff for music) which I will try disabling as well.

I'd be interested in those results as well.

There is no distortion in the test I did in EM, firing single and both primaries at once..

This leads me to believe the issue may be with the quality of the stock sound files. Or for some reason the way modded sounds are loaded is doing something different?

IIRC, they are loaded in the same way (same command syntax) and played back the same way, so it's likely in how your sound device can handle one sample/bit format and not as well with the other, as you suspect.

Would you be kind enough to provide me with unpacked original sound files so I can compare their information on my end?

No need, they may be licensed and not open for distribution anyway. I downloaded the files from the link above and compared them to the 'stock' files. The format for the custom particle gun files (the ones that would stack/layer more) in the archive at the link you posted is:

22KHz Mono

All of the particle gun files seem to be indentical in that collection. The playback format for the particle cannon sounds built into the game is:

22KHz Stereo

So there is technically twice as much data for the in-game sounds since they are in stereo and have two tracks of data. Using the custom mono files might be an option at this point. I might also be able to put together a custom sound file that is only mono as well that you could use as a substitute.

I'd still be interested in also learning what kind of motherboard you are using (make and model) along with the driver version you are using with your sound device itself.

[Zach]

Still can't fathom why my system would have a problem with these particular files, but here is a Dxdiag dump, I'd give an x64 version but its larger than the attachment size and not sure if it was relevant.

Its worth noting I don't use a Creative reference driver package, as they are crap and the card manufacturers are better imho, having fixed several long standing bugs Creative has ignored (they are still based on creative drivers though)



[file]856[/file]

My motherboard is an ASUS P8-Z77-V LK
My sound card is an Auzentech X-Fi Forte 7.1, PCI- Express

[Edited on 6-9-2014 by Zach]

[Edited on 6-9-2014 by Zach]

[Vice]

Looks like the company went out of business late last year? Not sure if it will help or not, but this seems to be based on a slightly more recent driver and lists your card and Win7 64 OS as supported platforms. It also appears to have a number of settings/options that may or may not be available with your current driver:

http://forums.creative.com/showthread.php?t=699146

Might be an option just to try, then roll back if it doesn't help. There doesn't seem to be a lot of support/help options for that card and haven't been for quite a long time. Seems to be a lot of remaining problems with these cards (and others sharing the same chipset), many of which with similar problems as you've described in other games. But there's little in the way of options and solutions as nothing has really been updated or posted about for them in terms of support/drivers since 2012.

So if this option doesn't work, you can follow up with me via e-mail and I'll be happy to look into creating some custom sound files that should work better with the card.

[MiaZ]

Another step you can try is simply turning down the volume setting in the game's Options menu.

I used to have a problem with distortion too.
Different computer and different sound card but vice's suggestion fixed it for me.
Settings down to about 3 worked well.

[Zach]

Another step you can try is simply turning down the volume setting in the game's Options menu.

I used to have a problem with distortion too.
Different computer and different sound card but vice's suggestion fixed it for me.
Settings down to about 3 worked well.

That would suggest clipping in the original audio clips then, wouldn't it? Maybe they just need to be EQ'ed or have their loudness adjusted. I'm a little weary about swapping out drivers, but I will give it some thought and consideration.

I can confirm that turning the volume down to 30 in the game settings helps tremendously.. It may still be there in a minor way but it is much harder to distinguish for sure.

Thanks for your continued feedback, Vice.

[Edited on 6-9-2014 by Zach]

[Zach]

Interesting, the thread you linked to with the drivers disappeared from Creatives forum or something.
Which doesn't surprise me, but still odd because it worked a short while ago. I never got around to getting those drivers, but I did come across PAX drivers and wanted to compare them to DanielK's but I guess now I can't... heh

edit:
Just a minor update. It does appear to be a hardware / driver problem I guess.. I got curious about something I always wondered about and hunted down some "unlocked" Realtek Drivers for my onboard ALC889 chip.

Apparently its capable of both DDL and DTS 5.1.
I loaded up Arvoch with default sounds, and although there is still some issues with odd artifacts, and artifacts from the low quality of i.e mission briefings - gameplay was much better.

There was no more distortion when firing all primary weapons, etc.

I guess my next project will be to try out these PAX drivers for my X-Fi.
I don't know if they will present WHQL/driver signing issues like the Realtek ones did, but I'd rather leave driver signing enabled if I can help it...bleh

I feel ripped off. For the prices on decent motherboards these days they can through in a DDL or DTS license

[Edited on 6-24-2014 by Zach]

[Zach]

Just another follow-up. It seems that the PAX X-Fi Forte 7.1 driver pack is also working out nicely as well.