X-Rebirth

[Nigel_Strange]

I received XRB for a present last December. I have not yet installed it because I have this fear of new installations. They so often want me to create numerous accounts, join online communities, download patches, remember passwords for stuff that I'll never log into again, deal with antipirating software, and then take four hours to install...it's a real fear of new installations and all the hassle that new games create these days.

So, I haven't installed it yet, but I have had time to look at reviews. One of the users here didn't like it. Fine. I watched a video that was about 25 minutes of some guy disparaging the game. He had nothing good to say about it. However, his mistake was that he showed the game as he complained about it, and the game really looked cool. I disregarded his comments.

He complained most vociferously about the cockpit...how his view of the universe was obstructed by the interior of the ship. My feelings on this are exactly the opposite. A cockpit makes you feel like you're in a ship. It's immersion. I played X-3 games, and they did away with the cockpit in all of those, and I was very disappointed with them on many levels, but most because the lack of a cockpit made me feel like a guy in a space suit riding around on the outside of a rocket like Slim Pickens in Dr. Strangelove. He goes on from there, but after that point, he had already lost me. Clearly, I saw, this man is my antithesis. Everything he says is the opposite of how I feel. I want that cockpit. I want to feel its nurturing computer displays, keeping me warm, and protecting me from the vast nothingness of space outside. I want to see specks of space dust glistening in the cold alien starlight on the windshield, and watch them glow red hot and ionize in the atmosphere as I attempt planetary landing.

I did read, though, some disturbing information about the lack of joystick support. I believe that they probably intended the game for console only and then went to PC as a kind of afterthought. However, I haven't tried it yet, so maybe it will work just fine.

I'm trying to psyche myself up for the task of doing the install, and then being disappointed...and then powering through that disappointment to enjoy the game hidden beneath that layer of hate that other players have heaped upon it.

I will report my findings, free (as much as possible) of preconceptions and unpolluted by other people's opinions, as well as I can.

[SeeJay]

Hi Nigel.

I haven't played it myself and never will after reading reviews and after feedback from a mate at work.

He bought it and says it's so full of bugs that it's not playable. Pretty yes, but that's about it.
It is the worst game they ever released he said. It's not finished!

You can't play in MP either and right there it's a no-go for me.

Just my 2 cents.

[NLS]

Please please please don't pollute this forum further with X:R.
What are you talking about "one review", "one player" that didn't like it?
ALL reviews didn't like it and like 95% of its users.
Don't take my word, check Steam statistics (less than 500 people play the game a day WORLDWIDE), check steam user reviews, check metacritic both professional and user scores, read Steam forum, read Egosoft own forum.
This game is UTTER cr*p and it doesn't even have to do with its unlimited major bugs (which is like commonplace for Egosoft games), its the design decisions they made.
There are already lists "worse games of" (2013, all time, whatever) that have it in.
If you like it fine, your taste and your money (although I have a list of questions usually for such rare cases).

[SpaceDrifter]

I remember I had so much hope for this game last summer, when the
trailers came out. Sooo beautiful. Anticipated the date of release. Then
November 15 arrived. Read so many reviews. Was crushed by the results.
I<m glad I didn't buy it.

But I have to agree with you, Nigel_Strange, the cockpit is the most beautiful I've ever seen
in a game. Looks extremely immersive. I wish some modder would built it
for evochron. I think it would fit well with the game.

[NLS]

The problem with X:R rebirth cockpit is that it could easily be 2D instead of 3D (ok except some lighting effects).
You see in X:R you DO NOT MOVE YOUR HEAD. Yes they don't give you what flight simulators did the last 20-25 years.
You only look straight forward. If you want to look 30 degrees to the right, you have to TURN THE SHIP.
The only time you actually "move" your head is when you enter or exit the cockpit (using the prerendered "sit down" sequence!), or when you automatically turn right to check a semitransparent matrix. Behind the matrix you can see your useless and irritating and badly rendered co-pilot Yisha, saying stupid comments and her head turning in an non-human way to see you.
Also the cockpit has no radar if you noticed (there is NO radar in the game, except some "deep space scanner" that is actually more of an arcade minigame). Yes they failed to deliver what space games have since 1984 (at least).
In fact the cockpit has just some minor info displayed and is practically useless. They have even applied a "cartoon like" filter to make it an insult (think a filter like Borderlands 2)
The cockpit is just there because people wanted a cockpit.
Forget X:R, it's a lost cause (or a fraud if you ask some).



[Edited on 6-2-2014 by NLS]

[Nigel_Strange]

I did not buy the game: it was a gift. Admittedly, it might have been on a wish list somewhere, so I am partially responsible, but I did not buy it. I am writing this because I do not wish people to judge me based on my acquisition of this game. If it sucks, it sucks, but it is yet for me to decide.

Background.
My history with the X series goes back to the beginning. I loved the first game, but I of course wanted more. When X-Tension came out, I was stoked. I could pilot new ships! I could remotely control ships to run the economy. I loved the detail that they put into the cockpits for each type of ship and the various improvements over the initial game. My initial dealings with the Paranid were not friendly, and by the time I stopped playing the game, I had a monopoly on their food supply. I could charge whatever I wanted for scruffin fruit or whatever they ate, and they had to call me "sir."

X2 came out later, and I was even happier. The controls for managing the trade empire, capital ships, turrets, etc. were added on. More AI for owned craft. I now was able to build a trade empire that ran itself. I had to select the locations, buy the equipment, set everything up, and then set up security craft (and set up their patrols). The game was excellent. I did, however, notice that they were cutting back on the cockpits. All the cockpits for the different ship classes started to look alike. I could use most ship systems and computers by some carefully aimed keyboard taps.

X3 came out, and I was not happy. The cockpits were gone. This destroyed a big part of the immersion. They also ruined the gate system. Gates were no longer in predictable places, as though some giant decided to hide all the train stations. The easy-to-use keyboard or mouse-driven computer interface was replaced by some console-hell inspired one that made everything just a little harder to work with. The graphics were really nice, but now all the stations started to look the same. You could no longer tell if you were in Split territory, Argon, or anywhere because all the stations had the same, boring, steel tube construction. Combat was harder too, because the shields prevented anything but big weapons from breaking in. You could also no longer go inside stations. Most of these were downsides. I did like the slight nod they gave to Newtonian physics, but it was not much more than a nod and a wink.

Clearly, Egosoft was moving in a direction away from where I wanted to go and toward more console-friendly games.

What I hoped was that people who loved the X3 games would NOT like X-RB, because it would be going back in the direction of X2, which I thought was the pinnacle of their success. It remains to be seen, however.

I am also hoping that future patches will be released to address some of the issues that players have had. I DOUBT that patches will be released to address issues that I have, because I am a unique individual, who might have a different take on how the game should be.

I am also not going to compare the X games to Starwraith games. To me, they are apples and steak. I will only compare Egosoft with Egosoft and Starwraith to Starwraith.

[Nigel_Strange]

It's installed. Installation was fairly painless. I have not played it yet.

[Tanvaras]

It ok at best. I have actually completed the Storyline without any issues (though i waited til a patch or two ago to start) IMO though dont bother with storyline, go straight for Sandbox and you will have a much better time as most the killer bugs seem to be the ones that hurt you in Storymode to continue onwards.

I have a few hours (60 roughly) in game (about 20 in the release days working out issues) but I have had a bit of fun playing Sandbox, I have a few miners actually doing there job, and a small combat ship fleet to cause some trouble now. But all in all its one hell of a disappointment compared to other X games. I know I shall wait before buying there next release (if they dont go out of business) and read some reviews etc before parting with cash to them again.

With modders (Some are working hard, and some have left for good) just maybe there might be a partially playable game in about another 6 months of patching, But will never be an X2 or X3.

[Nigel_Strange]

So. I have played it for a couple of hours.

First impressions...

The first thing I noticed was the game was not widescreen. No automatic detection of screen resolution. Interesting, but easily fixed.

The graphics are quite beautiful. No doubt about that.

The next thing I noticed was the difficulty in calibrating the joystick. I eventually got it to work, but it took some doing. It occurred to me that they intended the game to be played with some kind of console controller. There are "Left stick" and "right stick" controls. It was not obvious how to make the buttons work the way I wanted.

They also have mouse-movement control, which appears to be the second control configuration they worried about. I think they left off joystick controllers until the very end, but at least they got them in there eventually. I have played other games in which the stick control was so bad (or absent) as to make them unplayable.

I was also struck by the inability to turn my head. Before I played the game, I didn't think it would be an issue, but after playing it, I did find the lack of head movement to be a bit stifling.

I did have to concur with the uselessness of the maps. I really prefer the old-fashioned grid-like maps of the previous games. Not flashy, but precise and easy to understand and use.

Alas, the game did make me want to go back and play X2. I still haven't gotten around to liking X3, though Terran Conflict is a little better than Reunion. When I bought Reunion I had a devil of a time installing it because one of the disks actually had a corrupted file on it! The workaround was to break the installation sequence and manually copy another version of the file over. It was a pain. I bought X3TC mainly to skirt around the installation issues, but it also added the new content too, so it wasn't a total waste.

I'll give this one a little more play time, though. I think that reading all the negative reviews had the effect of pre-dimming my expectations, so that I was not let down as hard as I might have been otherwise. I should be thankful for that.

[Nigel_Strange]

So far, I have played a bit more. I am still impressed by the graphics, and it was an ambitious project. Bringing back the cockpit was important and the ability to walk around on stations is kind of neat.

Commerce is a little weird, though. The merchants would say that had things to sell, but then I could not buy them, and they did not give any reason. If I had the credits, I should be able to buy. I then remembered the stupid trade restrictions of the previous games: you had to meet the requirements of some racial popularity test before they would allow you to spend your credits on their stuff. However, it did not indicate any of that in the market window: it just had a blank area where a price should have been.

Same with asking folks for their qualifications. They instantly agree to show you their qualifications, except that they show you a blank card. I guess you have to have some intimate moment or something before they take the white-out off their resumes.

First blood: I had some combat. The guns did not seem to track the enemies at all. No radar, as mentioned. I got the feeling that they intended combat to be mouse-centric, meaning that the weapons would track the mouse pointer, but they would not track the target if you were using a joystick, so you have to use the mouse to point and click on your foe, instead of using the stick. I also could not see enemy ship information in a convenient format, so I was not really sure how much damage the enemy ship had taken or how much more it would take. Realistic, maybe, but not what I'm used to.

I decided to do the storyline first. It is a kind of tutorial, I guess, but I found some issues with it. If you don't follow the storyline and try to do things outside the box you learn things do not work, only to find that they DO work if you do them in the sequence they want. I hired a pilot because I was bored, and then when I got to a freighter, I tried to get the pilot to move to the freighter, but there was no way to do it because I had not yet gotten to that part of the story. When I did get to that part of the story, I had an extra pilot on the payroll.

I do not like the highways. I remember jumpgates fondly. Seems like technology is degrading when the new technology is less useful/convenient as the old technology. That goes for the map system, the navigation system, and the camera system as well. Even the first X-BTF had external cameras.

However, the main issue for me is comparing it to the previous X games. If I blank my mind of the previous games, and imagine this as a standalone game without prior associations, then it is not so bad. It's getting over the prior associations that makes it work, though. It actually reminds me of Darkstar One. Both games have the cockpit without the head-turning. Both have the female companion who talks at you.

Speaking of which, I think this is the first time I have played a game with a fully animated 3d copilot who shares a cockpit with you. It's a new feature: not groundbreaking, but it's new.

[Nigel_Strange]

Docking is a chore. In previous games, you could dock very easily by selecting the base, communicating, and initiating the sequence. If they did not want you to dock, they would inform you.

In X-R, docking is more difficult. You somehow must get close to an icon and then hope that changes and then you can initiate a dock. If the icon does not change, then you cannot initiate docking, and there is no way to make it change: you must wait for it, and it either happens or does not happen.

The highways are not good. I am also amazed by the nose-to-bumper behavior of so many ships. It's too reminiscent of busy freeways.

Inside the stations, the graphics are not so great, but the framerate is also not great. There are many games where the interior graphics are nicer and they manage to keep a good framerate.

Navigation is nigh impossible. The previous games allowed you to use the navigation system to navigate pretty accurately. There was a grid, predictable gates, etc. The new system is a lot like navigating on land. You have to find the highway to where you want to go, then jump on it. The computer tells you where to get on and off. Not very space-like.

Also, so far as I can tell, there's no autopilot.

And yet, I feel drawn back to it for some reason, perhaps it is the eye candy. Perhaps it is the learning curve. Yes: that's it. A game that is easy to pick up and play the first time bores me after I learn the tricks. A game that has a steep learning curve, though (maybe not too steep) intrigues me. It's a puzzle that I have to work out, and it keeps me coming back. I want to master it, to learn the mysteries, such as how to dock at a docking station. How to initiate a trade that is right in front of my nose. How to accept a mission from a mission giver.

For example, I picked up a taxi mission. It took me about 10 minutes to figure out how to accept the mission. The instruction was to go to the mission start area, but once I was there, I had no idea how to get the mission. There was no more instruction, so I had to work it out. I eventually figured out that I had to use the mouse, and using a series of mouse-clicks, I was able to initiate conversation. The mission was timed. I had to dock at a station, talk to a passenger who seemed surprised to see me, then get back to my ship. I then had to fly to a new waypoint...all in under six minutes. Here is the tricky part. When I got to the waypoint, there was nothing there. The waypoint was at a station, but there were no docking points nearby. Could I dock at any docking point, or would I need to find a specific one? I searched in vain for a docking point nearby, but there wasn't one, so I started scanning the rest of the station. There were docking points in other locations on the station, but could I use any of them? I was running out of time, though, so I picked the one that I was closest to and tried to dock. Of course, docking required getting the ship just so that the little icon would change for me, but once it did, I was in, with only 7 seconds to spare. I must say that about 80% of the time of that mission was spent looking around the station and trying to dock, but that won't happen again, because now I know the trick. Ha!

So, to conclude this series: the game has a lot of eye candy, but many of the things that I liked about the previous X games are absent. True, they brought back the cockpit, but in many respects, the game regresses. However, the very absurd things that add difficulty also demand mastery, and I have the feeling that after mastering some basic skills, the game will open up like a space flower. Call me an optimist.

[DaveK]

Nigel - you certainly have grit and determination. You seem to have spent hours on a game that is a dud - traders who won't trade, ships that are hard to fly, combat that is hard unless you use a mouse. I really hope the eye candy aspect is worth it for you!

[Nigel_Strange]

So far, about two hours...not that long, yet. The game has some frustrations, but is not hateworthy.

[Nigel_Strange]

OK: final analysis.

The game does have some appeal. Flying around space is fun. Combat is OK. The environment and graphics are interesting.

My main complaints are:

The computer interface. It is difficult to use at best.

Actually, that's pretty much it, though the interface is so ubiquitous that it impacts everything you do. You do not get options to tell your ships to do things, simple things, like land on stations or fight your enemies. You must take your hand off the stick in order to grab the mouse in order to click on an icon on your windshield in order to perform some operations. In previous games, you had a much simpler, more elegant control system.

I watched a video of one of the developers showing how easy it was to fly the ship. He never once picked up a joystick. Instead, he used a console controller. Making a PC game specifically for console controllers was a huge mistake.

Let's hope that other developers out there (Star Citizen, etc.) learn from the mistakes of Egosoft.

[Nigel_Strange]

Revisited. They have released a new version. It's up to 2.5 now. I must say that the improvements are really making the game nigh playable. If you have abandoned X-Rebirth, you might want to have a look at the newer version. It is still lacking in some respects, but the improvements are worth a peek. If you have steam the updates will be loaded automatically.

[Ohsirus]

XRebirth 3.10 w/ Teladi DLC is out for a bit now and now is the time to revisit the game as this is what it should have been at launch.

[Nigel_Strange]

Thanks for the update. I gave it a whirl and noticed a few things that were different from the 2.0 release. I'll have to read up on the changes.

[Dingo]

The game is still a hot mess really.

[DaveK]

Hi Dingo - good to see you're still in the universe!

I had a look at the site and the visuals look interesting. It's hard to tell whether things like boarding are going to be fun or just a clicking exercise. The fires and smoke that behave like in an atmosphere on a planet look good - in a funny sort of way. It certainly seems to have shaken itself a lot after it's close mis-birth!

Is it really only available on steam? I've never had a steam account, but it does seem to cause occasional hiccoughs. Since the game appears to be tied to an internet company - steam - does that mean you need to be online to start and play a steam game?

I'm keeping an eye on it - as [size=-1](EDIT)[/size] Nigel posted, there are several developments that don't compete with EM but are just different takes on space games/sims





[Edited on 4-1-2015 by DaveK]

[Nigel_Strange]

I'm not sure whether Steam is required to play, but Steam Workshop is how the updates are automatically installed.

Here is the Egosoft website for more information: http://www.egosoft.com/games/x_rebirth/info_en.php

[skyratt]

X3 Terran Conflict is a better game.

[Ohsirus]

Can't believe there are still PC Gamers who don't use Steam.

[Nigel_Strange]

I use Steam, but I'm also afraid of it. What would happen if Steam went down? All of these games that I think that I "own" would no longer be playable. It's not like owning them, really, but paying for something that is not really yours. This arrangement is a little creepy. On the other hand, as long as they're up, and I have an internet connection to them, it is convenient.

[SeeJay]

I only play free to play games using Steam.

Would never rely on someone else with paid for games.
Nigel is spot on!

[DaveK]

I'm not sure whether Steam is required to play, but Steam Workshop is how the updates are automatically installed.

Here is the Egosoft website for more information: http://www.egosoft.com/games/x_rebirth/info_en.php

Thanks Nigel. All the buy it options (and there are a handful) provide/require a steam key. It says 'Online Activation via Steam required' but I wonder if any Steam players know whether that means just once or each time you play or even whether you need to be connected to play!

Could be a deal breaker!



EDIT: Yeah - Kindle model for games or data storage sure does NOT work for me. I've heard of too many cloud storage companies disappearing to trust important stuff to that as long term storage

I playing with DropBox on my new tablet but only to make projects I'm working on accessible on the desktop, laptop and tablet. An they all get backed up onto my machines very regulalry (or a pendrive if I'm away from home for a while!)

How many "d's" in Luddite?

[Edited on 5-1-2015 by DaveK]