Classic Starwraith Ships

PlasmaJedi · Post by **PlasmaJedi** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:01 am

From post: 155941, Topic: tid=10413, author=Vice wrote: The orientation of the ships should all be the same.

Scaling will need adjusting from the old games to EM.

When you export, make sure to export as a single mesh. Otherwise, you'll likely see an error about limbs needing to be generated in sequence. Yes, you'll want to remove any other mesh structures and leave only the F-144 when you export. Then be sure to include normal data in the X file as well (so the shader knows how to apply the various texture/lighting effects).

You're right, they are oriented the same... Here's the thing: In the preview window, when you choose a frame, the f-144 is backward! all the other frames face the same way. But after installing it, it points correctly.

And I had to use LithUnwrapper to convert to .X, Blender is borked.

I was told that military ships have thier own meshes and then engines? Obviously, you can't attach wings and cargo bays, etc, but I think a modder said while they have no seperate wings, cargo, fuel, shield, they do have engine peices, we just cannot change them, is this so? So what do I do about engines? With a civ frame I could attach engines. What about mil frames? I'll do more research if you don't get back to me.

Post by **Vice** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:09 am

Default military ships have a class 10 engine attached to them automatically. When you import a custom military ship design, the game will not apply the engine mesh, so this shouldn't be a factor for you.

PlasmaJedi · Post by **PlasmaJedi** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:18 am

Ok then, so, can I get exhaust? The Mass Effect jet doesn't really have a flaming exhaust, but these do. Is there something I can do? It'd look sad with no flaming colums of fire out the back!

I did get the mesh working, don't have time ATM to post a screen, but I will tomorrow. Now just to figure out the texturing!!

Thx s for the help, Vice! I've been wanting to do this for ages! You got a good skill in starships! I can only make use of others seeds, I have a hard time creating from scratch.

Frost N7 · Post by **Frost N7** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:25 am

it would be neat to have trails (long or short option) along with the "internal" engines , the f -144 seems like it would be larger and more dangerous than other fighters

i luv it

Post by **Vice** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:42 am

The exhaust effect should still apply, is it not rendering in the game? Thrusters should also be visible.

Shieldwolf · Post by **Shieldwolf** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:26 am

From post: 155902, Topic: tid=10413, author=PlasmaJedi wrote:How'd you do it??? I can't make blender open because its retarded!

Woof.... Import it is all I did. Took me a little while to figure it out.

PlasmaJedi · Post by **PlasmaJedi** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:52 pm

From post: 155966, Topic: tid=10413, author=Vice wrote: The exhaust effect should still apply, is it not rendering in the game? Thrusters should also be visible.

It seems I have spoken out of ignorance. I have only ever flown mil frame 2, and have yet to unlock the rest, and when I looked at the pics for the Mass Effect ship, I didn't remember seeing thrusters. So I assumed that the model had to be built in such a way to make them appear. But I looked at a film clip Viper made of it, and yes, it has thrusters all right.

So, are you telling me all mil frames have the same engines? I know, they are all class ten, but they are all visually the same? At least with the exhaust? I haven't tried to replace a mil frame yet, because my main save is not near a military base. I guess I should have tried it

I want to think on the SX3 page Viper said something about engines not appearing, and I understood wrong.

[Edited on 1-17-2013 by PlasmaJedi]

PlasmaJedi · Post by **PlasmaJedi** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:54 pm

I'm making good progress, but I'm thinking about the texturing. I was thinking of using Viper's SX3 textures. I know he didn't create them, but regardless, I cant get a hold of them. His mod won't download anymore. But I do think I could make use of them, all processed and everything, with maps and all, instead of the civilian ship textures.

As a NOT artist, I don't even know how to make surface normal maps and such, let along make my own textures. The most I've ever done is paint graffiti on an existing texture to say I "WUZ HEAR" XD

EDIT: GUESS WHAT??? One of your civ frames IS backward!!!! THAT is the one I replaced to test it! LOLOL!!! No wonder! I had to turn the damn thing around probably 5 times before I figured out what was wrong!

[Edited on 1-17-2013 by PlasmaJedi]

Post by **Vice** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:58 pm

So, are you telling me all mil frames have the same engines? I know, they are all class ten, but they are all visually the same? At least with the exhaust?

Yes, they are all consistent, so it should be fairly easy to line up the model with the exhaust effect.

PlasmaJedi · Post by **PlasmaJedi** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:52 pm

BEHOLD! The Legendary F-144!!!

Lets hope these screens work. First, snaps of the military replacement:

For some reason, this pic won't show!

You might be able to tell, but the built-in engine exhaust doesn't match, but its not far off. Maybe the mil version I will add smaller engine nacelles next to the current main engines, then maybe alter the mains to be closed up or something.

This is a start of the civilian replacement pics. I replaced my favorite civ hull, the Mirage, and hid all the components inside the hull. I shrunk the wings down and made them canards, and I lined the engines up to fit where they belong!

Another pic won't show! Does anyone know about Mediafire? Do they not like certain types of pics? I snapped all of these with Steam's built-in screenshot function, and some work and some don't.... >:|

As you can see, the civ engine matches perfectly!

Of course, they all look like the Borg till I get some textures going. Can anyone help me get the textures Viper used on the SX3? They are way better than the high-res civ ship pack.

EDIT:
Anyone think its too large or too small? It seems about right, but making it larger would help fit the engines a bit more, and it does look like a medium-heavy fighter IMHO. I'm doing the one from Starwraith 3-4 as well, which has roughly the same body, but slimmer wings and tail fins. I would naturally try to make the sizes the same according to the body. So I thinking the two Evochs would be a good replacement, for default plug-n-play use, with this current model the larger one. Vice said the Evochs evovled from the Starwraiths anyway. Of course you can change it to whatever you want.

[Edited on 1-17-2013 by PlasmaJedi]

Frost N7 · Post by **Frost N7** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:34 pm

love it , if you can do a mili frame upload that would be great.

PlasmaJedi · Post by **PlasmaJedi** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:36 pm

Yeah, well, gotta argue with blender on the texturing first.... You'll be ably to use it however you want simply by changing the name. I'm getting there...

Like I said, if anyone has Viper's SX3, can they send it to me? his download link is disabled, and those textures would kick ass!

Frost N7 · Post by **Frost N7** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:45 pm

I'm using it , provide and email via u2u and ill do it (might want to ask viper when he's back) i'm sure he'll be fine with it. ill trade for the xframe file (as i like the default texture as it is)

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:03 pm

Check Page 3 of the following thread for really good information and a how-to when applying textures:

http://www.starwraith.com/forum/viewtop ... 963&page=3

zex · Post by **zex** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:13 pm

very cool

Frost N7 · Post by **Frost N7** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:40 am

If i may suggest , make the military frame slightly larger , the exhaust may be miss aligned because of the newer ships being larger
(that's my guess) , or mess around in the blender i might have to pick it up but i know ill never figure it out

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:44 am

Most excellent work here! Outstanding! The F-144 has never looked better! And the cannards you've made of wing-set 2 for the civ model, don't seem to detract from the over-all aesthetic. I don't honestly think that Viper would have any problem with your using "his" skins for your ship. He's been rather up-front about the public domain free-ware he's used to craft his offering, the SX-3. He's pretty much offered his work with the SX-3 for free, here, for all to use or abuse. As Viper's off on "sabatical" for a bit, he may have taken down his posting/link. I've a copy - send an u2u if Frosty's having any probs with sending his.

I'd like to fly this ship as well. It's what my Clan forebearers flew during hostilities, and after the breakout from the Arvoch. At a time when they began establishing the "zones of influence" that grew up into the Evochron system and quadrant associations currently extant. It is in honor of those brave men and women, that I wish to "dance vac" in quite possibly one of their own craft. Troopin' the "Olde Colours" don'tcha know!

PlasmaJedi · Post by **PlasmaJedi** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:24 pm

Honestly, I really haven't done squat. I appreciate the comments, but I simply have been stumbling around Blender and the like, trying to get the ORIGINAL model VICE supplied to behave, which a pro modeller could have done in 15 minutes...

I do believe I've run into a problem, however, and that is, I thought it'd be easier to re-assign the UV texture vectors to fit another ship's texture map...

I was f-ing WRONG! HOLY S---!

On top of that, my efforts to get it working right broke the work Vice had left in the model, and I'm gonna have to start over with a fresh copy of his source model. That'll only take me 15 minutes!

So I'll need to make fresh textures just for it. Just great! I might get them looking 'ok', but it'll be worse than Vice's original Starwraith 2 textures, made all those years ago on a system that is now a dinosaur graphically. So this is why I hoped a pro would do this. It may look good now, and if I don't get anywhere with custom textures, I'll just post what I got so far, of the SW2 and SW3 ships. But give me a little more time before I throw in the towel.

PlasmaJedi · Post by **PlasmaJedi** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:51 pm

VIIIIICE! I need some helps!

I discovered by accident, that if I add a mod mesh, then remove it and go into the shipyard then back out, it remembers the mesh, but doesn't realize its a mod, and adds in the class 10 engine! THIS solves the engine mismatch problem with the exhaust! PLUS, IT LOOKS EPIC!!!!

Is there a way to make it show the class 10 engine on a mod ship? Dang that was cool! That would be the military version, and the civ version would be 'plain' or whatever, so users could fit their own engines. Is there a way to make EM apply the class 10 engines? Or should I try to import the class 10 engine model? Can I get the default model and textures out of the game for attempts at mapping them?

Post by **Vice** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:09 pm

Ironically, that structure was removed by player request so a custom military design could have its own custom engine structures applied in the model directly. There isn't currently a way to 'activate' it and the mesh is a licensed media file not available for public distribution. So you'll need to incorporate your own engine design (remove the exhaust outlets that are on it now or change them to look like something you'd prefer).

PlasmaJedi · Post by **PlasmaJedi** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:51 pm

Nuts!
Hmmm, any way to trick the game into thinking its the normal mesh, other than doing what I did? Any way in a future update to make it somehow an optional feature, dependent on the mesh? Probably not.

Sigh, this is about all I can do with it then...

My first version merged all the UV map layers before I realized what good they were separate, but I tried to rebuild it with the layers and I'm getting models that have nearly black textures...

? It was working before! I'm not even sure how I did what I did before.

On top of that, I cannot make good textures, I just can't. It'll look like a cartoon, too neat and smooth, etc. I'm about to say, that's it! There isn't much more I can do. Of course my curiosity will keep stubbornly making me go on, but at some point I've gotta quit.

Once again, I'd love to see a skilled modeller do this. The best I can do is the scrambled-texture BORG version. I can't make engines match the combat frame: I suck at modelling, I've tried.

After I exhaust all my efforts, I'll post the best I've got. It's merely a re-adjusting of Vice's models he posted earlier in this thread. Heck, I'd love to see Vice do it himself! He could make the mil version carry a class 10 engine, like the rest, and apply the textures epically, far better than mine.

Post by **Vice** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:55 pm

It may be possible to re-enable such an option, but it was some work to remove and I'm in the middle of trying to fix some FPS and camera rendering issues. I'm only posting on the forum today in between compiles. But when/if things slow down, I might be able to revisit this. I can say however, that it would be better to have any engine structure applied to the model itself. Someone could probably help you if you have much of the work already done on the base mesh.

If you get black textures on your model at any point, you may have not exported normals. Without normal data, the object will just appear black/gray in the game. One quick work-around for this is to just load your model in Lithunwrap and resave it to apply normals automatically (make sure to save as a plain text ASCII X file).

PlasmaJedi · Post by **PlasmaJedi** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:00 pm

Ahh, I picked binary, I think.... That may be it cuz I think I did text before. As for "much of the work", all I successfully did was resize and rotate it. I think I got a good size, so, that'll be it then.

I respect your work and your time, but I'd love to see you yourself re-add the old starwraiths, just for kicks. Maybe make them only available at a certain base or something. You'd outdo anything I could do and likely have it match the rest or EM's style perfectly!

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:19 am

Hey P-J. Anything you can do, is exponentially better than anything I can to do with this modding stuff. Sure, I've slapped together some stuff, other artists' sweat and labor, and "crafted" my HUD offering. Truely, that's the limit of my "artistic" abilities - plaigarising the work of others. Viper's the graphic artist, has his own shop, can do this stuff in his sleep - well, almost. The struggle to wrap my brain around this stuff would be a battle of epic/biblical proportions, a la Cecil B. DeMille. (Mind like a sack of spastic cats!)
From what you've shown us so far, it does look like you're getting a handle on it. How ever long it takes, well... that's how long it's gonna be. Hang in there man! Would purely love to fly that rig!

PlasmaJedi · Post by **PlasmaJedi** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:01 am

Well, as soon as I go as far as I can without texturing, I'll post what I got and then you CAN fly that rig...

I'll probably keep poking at the textures, but if anybody sees it and says, 'Yeah, I can do that", by all mens, do it!

Ummm.... I'm at a different computer than my usual at the moment... did my screenshots dissappear? Or is this computer just dumb? Darn you, Mediafire!