Getting started Modding this engine...

Aurel Tristen · Post by **Aurel Tristen** » Sun May 03, 2009 6:52 pm

I'm really sorry I have to post this, but I was shocked to see there is no sticky thread with information on the subject.

I've been looking for a long time for a suitable engine to build a Macross mod on, and I'd like to give this one a try by importing my assets into it (Cockpit, ship models, sounds and new HUD) but I can't for the life of me find any information on how to do so. I understand that the 'Customization kit' (Why not just SDK?) isn't out yet, but as I'm seeing many mods being made as it is, I don't think that's much of a limitation.

As I'm just testing to see if the engine will even run with such high resolution models, I'm also wondering if I'll need to buy a full version of the game in order to import assets.

I'd normally have just figured it out on my own, but as Google has failed me, and the game directory doesn't have any subfolders to speak of, I'm at a total loss.

Does the engine support, or will it ever support model animation of any kind? I'd never expect bone animation, but at least linked objects that 'move with' each other would be useful.

49rTbird · Post by **49rTbird** » Sun May 03, 2009 7:28 pm

Hello Aurel Tristen, welcome to the forum. Others will be able to answer your questions and will stop by soon.

Post by **Vice** » Sun May 03, 2009 8:11 pm

I understand that the 'Customization kit' (Why not just SDK?)

Because of the implication of potential definitions. 'Customizing' better reflects what the kit is available for.

isn't out yet, but as I'm seeing many mods being made as it is, I don't think that's much of a limitation.

The kit, in test form, is available here: http://www.starwraith.com/evochronlegendscustomkit.zip It may help provide you with details on what you're looking for (methods and techniques).

As I'm just testing to see if the engine will even run with such high resolution models, I'm also wondering if I'll need to buy a full version of the game in order to import assets.

The customizing options work in the demo also, aside from locations you can't reach and ships/items you can't access in the demo.

Does the engine support, or will it ever support model animation of any kind? I'd never expect bone animation, but at least linked objects that 'move with' each other would be useful.

Not currently, no plans to add it yet. May change in the future though.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sun May 03, 2009 10:01 pm

Hi Aurel Tristen, Welcome to the Game and Forum!, I'm sure you will find some answers here!;)

Aurel Tristen · Post by **Aurel Tristen** » Sun May 03, 2009 10:10 pm

Thank you all for the rapid reply. I'm not used to working on such small scale engines, and as such, it is a real pleasure to be in contact with THE author directly.

I really enjoy this game, which shocks me because my first reaction was "This would have been great 10 years ago". But for a project produced by one man (Right?), it is mind blowing. Even though the graphics are a little old school, the immersivness of the cockpit with the shaking form explosions, and wonderfully designed HUD are a blast.

It is unfortunate that I'm unable to mod the engine as I had hoped. I can't find any import/export plugins or scripts for 3D studio Max 9, and I'm thinking more and more that my ships, utilizing multiple 2048x2048 textures, bump maps and specular highlight maps and with polycounts in the hundreds of thousands, are not going to function in this engine. Maybe someday a future version will have a LOD system, and support more robust model formats. Until then, I think I'll create a sound-pack ^_^

Speaking of sound, will we ever see MP3 or OGG support for the music? Wave songs are going to be HUGE!

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Sun May 03, 2009 11:54 pm

Polycounts in the hundreds of thousands?

Out of curiousity, have you ever found an engine that your ships would function in? :|

Aurel Tristen · Post by **Aurel Tristen** » Mon May 04, 2009 12:18 am

Source has a hard limit of 250,000 PER MATERIAL ID, IE, use two parts for a model, and you can easily push 500,000. I did overestimate my numbers a little, as my optimized models have a much lower polycount than before.

SDF 1 is pushing 39,525 polys at its highest LOD. Put in one badguy ship, and you get...

An additional 21,097 polys at its highest LOD.

This means I'm good in the short run, but if you've ever seen Macross, you'd know no battle is complete without hundreds of ships on both sides. This is probably why very few have ever tried to make a Macross game

Post by **Vice** » Mon May 04, 2009 1:08 am

MP3 is supported for the 'play list' system, it can likely be added for the event driven system as well, just be prepared for longer loading for the importing process, causing longer pauses as music changes.

The cockpit/HUD effects and modding are two things, but I'd encourage you to explore what this project offers from a gameplay standpoint as well. Unless you're strictly into just putting together mods.

Glock36 · Post by **Glock36** » Mon May 04, 2009 4:33 pm

man, as a freelancer modder and server operator, I can tell you that a ship like that is murder on packet traffic in multiplayer. It looks great but will stall the game as the calculus rotational transform function is hit over and over with tons of numbers. especially if there is a war going on with several of them in close proximity. IMHO

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Mon May 04, 2009 4:54 pm

Woooow, this is a Bytes gobler!

I did a little bit of programing for 3D rotational moving objects and I can tell ya this can be a big bytes eater!LOL:P:P:P

Aurel Tristen · Post by **Aurel Tristen** » Tue May 05, 2009 1:56 am

I know such models would be murder for this engine, that was my point, and I handn't dreamed of MP, as the size of these battles would be litterally impossible. In fact, in order to make such battles in any SP engine, about 99% of the combat would have to be faked (IE skybox, pre-rendered / imposers and such)

Consider this: Every flagship (green one pictured above) holds about 1,000 fighters, and the average fleet can have anywhere from 5 to 10,000 flagships.

A computer game that matched what I've written in the design document would almost certainly have to be a custom engine. Luckily, the player has a limited range thanks to physics, so fully simulating one of several million ships included in a battle wouldn't be needed.

This engine is simple to mod though, as far as surface level graphics go, so it would have been a fun little project. I was able to get a ARM-D carrier up and running, but it refuses to use my texture.

Post by **Vice** » Tue May 05, 2009 2:01 am

Try one of the 1.09X builds in testing in the other thread. There have been several major changes with the capital ship and small ship modification system specifically related to textures. Details here: http://www.starwraith.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4671

The customizing kit at the link above has also been updated with the latest info on applying the different surface layers each with unique textures.

Aurel Tristen · Post by **Aurel Tristen** » Tue May 05, 2009 2:13 am

Not sure if the first link is what you were talking about or not, but I downloaded it and installed over my current build. Where is the documentation for the new 'customization kit?'. Does this mean I just need my ship's textures in the directory with its model?

You wouldn't happen to know what "ERROR 31" is would you? I tried to add the other two meshes for the layers, thinking they might be what was making my textures fail, and this came up. I also added a few sounds and changed a few icons on the hud that might have caused it. Going to start working backwords.

Post by **Vice** » Tue May 05, 2009 2:17 am

The readme file included with the kit provides the instructions. You'll need to keep your textures at whatever location is specified in the X file itself. Error 31 is a missing image error, can be caused by a few things. It's likely related to the HUD modification you tried, one of the images may not be in a compatible format.

Aurel Tristen · Post by **Aurel Tristen** » Tue May 05, 2009 2:19 am

Sweet, that's a good crash then. Its telling me my ARM-D model is looking for all of its textures. Lets see what happens now...

-thanks

Aurel Tristen · Post by **Aurel Tristen** » Tue May 05, 2009 2:36 am

No suprise, you were right. Taking out my HUD images did the trick. I only had three, and they were in the respective JPG or BMP formats, so I don't know, but I'll deal with that later.

I was able to see my model in game with the correct textures! I don't see anything new in the readme file though, I'm not sure it got installed as it should have.

Just a note, really big ships behave kinda strange. I'm replacing the Ship2.x, and it appears (seemingly out of nowere) taking up my whole screen, as it always seems to pop up right in front of me, and then in a matter of seconds, its gone again, the whole massive ship up in a tiny sparkel 1/50th its size

The good news is it seems to be traveling in the correct direction. I'm wondering though, what program did you use to make the original models, and how did you determine scale? If I use 3DSMAX's units, will it translate correctly into the game?

Post by **Vice** » Tue May 05, 2009 3:37 am

Excellent, glad that worked.

The good news is it seems to be traveling in the correct direction. I'm wondering though, what program did you use to make the original models, and how did you determine scale? If I use 3DSMAX's units, will it translate correctly into the game?

Yes, the scale probably just needs to be adjusted. Units of measure in modelling programs can vary. What is 1 unit or meter in one program can be 10, 100, or even 57.4 in another. If you can import it, the X model included with the kit can be used as a reference for scale. Otherwise, it may take some trial and error to resave the model in a different size, then launch the game to test the changes.

I generally use Metaseq for modelling, saving each model in that program's proprietary MQO format, then exporting to X as needed for use in the game. Although it may not help much, the Alliance capital ships in the game are generally about 4 units long and 1.25-1.5 units wide in that program, resulting in about 100 units long and ~35-40 units wide in the game.

[Edited on 5-5-2009 by Vice]