NMS

General discussion (space-sim gaming, astronomy, and sci-fi entertainment in general, etc.).
Nigel_Strange
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NMS

Post by Nigel_Strange »

By now, some of you must have tried out No Man's Sky. I am wondering about impressions.

There's been a lot of hype, and then a lot of hype about the hype (metahype), especially how the hype has ruined expectations, and therefore ruined people's experience with the game.

I have played a bit, and I find it to be entertaining, though I would not really classify it as a space simulator. It's more of an adventure/survival game than a space game (like Precursors) and although there is a "space flight" element in it, that is not really the main thrust (sorry) of the game.

In any case, I am curious about your experiences with the game and also wanted to start a discussion about marketing strategies, in general. Where do you draw the line between generating excitement for a new game and overhyping it to the extent that expectations are set impossibly high?
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Re: NMS

Post by matchbox2022 »

When what you see is not what you get.
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Marvin
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Re: NMS

Post by Marvin »

The only comment I have is with the trolls who complain about "how it was supposed to have MP but doesn't" when, in fact, the developers never promised MP beyond what exists (the ability to upload your discoveries). As for play, I mostly rely on my son's experiences ... he plays and I read his comments in email.
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Re: NMS

Post by Dingo »

Not wonderful.
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Re: NMS

Post by Arei »

Marvin wrote:The only comment I have is with the trolls who complain about "how it was supposed to have MP but doesn't" when, in fact, the developers never promised MP beyond what exists (the ability to upload your discoveries).
They are not trolls in my opinion since Sean Murray stated in multiple interviews that "You can meet and play with another player even though chances are extremely small due to the size of the universe." he outright lied and backpedalled a couple of days before the game released because they don't have a proper netcode to begin with. But I agree that saying the game is bad *just* because there is no multiplayer is excessive.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE0nuW-mQ8A

I feel extremely sad about this game because I've been hyped and waiting it since it was first announced, I bought it, played for about an hour and got it refunded right away, not because of the absence of actual multiplayer (I didn't want this game for multiplayer in the first place), but because of all the cut content and the fact that you can see the limit of gameplay in less than two hours (grind ressources => update/reload equipment/ship => grind more ressources => jump => repeat). Not to mention the fact that the UI is a real pain in the bum to use, it makes the constant grinding even more painful to me.

I don't believe the game is a scam like a lot of people like to describe it, but it is not worth the $60 they are asking for. In my opinion this game is yet another bland early access sandbox survival game that should cost $30 at the very maximum in it's current state.

Yes, I'm quite salty about NMS... ><
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Re: NMS

Post by SeeJay »

I followed it with great interest during the development. Sounded like the perfect space sim to me.

I haven't played it, but watching a lot of videos and reading a lot of reviews, made me walk away as far as possible.
There isn't any demo either, so no go for me right there! (At least I haven't found one)

Imho it's not a space sim at all! There is no space flight. It's aircrafts in atmosphere everywhere.
This is a arcade game. Nothing else. For those that like games like that (Not sims) it's probably good, but I won't touch it.
Especially with that pricetag on it.
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Re: NMS

Post by Dingo »

Exactly what SeeJay said. Except I lost my ill-gotten cash.
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Re: NMS

Post by Marvin »

Actually, it is a space sim ... too. It's just that most of the videos are of the various planet types, with its different flora and fauna. Also what you don't normally see are the ground-based stations and interaction with another species. You don't get into space until you're ready. I haven't played much ... spending what little time I have at the computer collecting items and minerals, traveling cross-country from one station to the next, learning the Gek language and doing my best to interact with the Gek.

My son has been playing extensively and has given me clues as to other ways and means of acquiring better stuff. Like finding transmitters and activating them, querying them for an SOS signal ... an easy way of finding better ships (which need repair ... then you can claim them). And some of what I'll find once I've docked at a space station.

His only complaint is that there must be some kind of memory leak in the PC version ... the longer he plays, the slower the game gets to be.
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Re: NMS

Post by Dingo »

Watching a twitch stream of this, I feel like I may be playing it wrong. It would be like me. I just don't like the cartooniness.
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Re: NMS

Post by DaveK »

A few thoughts

Some people - usually the most vocal - just love to tear things down. The trolling vids are just that, being edited for effect and not gospel. Is there any evidence that MP isn't simply going to be a later addition rather than a 'never show'?

Does the lack of MP really matter given the statement that the chances of even finding a planet someone else has visited (if MP was available now) are probably less than winning the lottery.

What I'd like to see is some reviews of the gameplay - is there really anything to do that would occupy me for weeks or months (or like Vice's games) years? A million ships that are nearly the same is no better than a handful that are nearly the same. Flying round technicolor planets which look like the Jurassic with weird animals, plants and a few buildings is fun for a while but I suspect one weird planet is much the same as another. Trading what? Why? Why are we fighting hostile aliens? Is there any back story?

So, back to the main point; what's the gameplay like? How much actual variation is there? At the asking price, the game would have to be very good and long lived wrt to gameplay to tempt me.

:)
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Re: NMS

Post by Marvin »

Dingo wrote:I just don't like the cartooniness.
I mentioned that to my son when the program was first advertised ... the style looked familiar but I couldn't put my finger on it. Until the Dev (Sean) explained that it's meant to resemble Golden Age Sci Fi magazine covers. Bingo! Yeah ... I even have a book of old Sci Fi illustrations. Spot on.

I could go into a very long "walk thru" ... but not at this forum. It's enough to say that the comments so far remind me of the same kind of complaints I've read (so often) here, about Legends and Mercenary and Legacy by somebody who played the game for maybe fifteen minutes and then posted a, "why can't we do this" when, actually, we can (and then me or somebody else usually goes into a lengthy explanation about how you can do this or that, if only you take the time to check it out).
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Re: NMS

Post by Arei »

I can't really compare Evochron Legacy and NMS except the fact they are games set in space: When I started playing Evochron it was hard, but there was something pushing me to keep playing and even after learning how to play, I kept discovering new things (secrets or plain gameplay aspects I didn't know about) and even more than 100 hours after, I know there are tons of things left for me to discover and I'm far from being bored.

I didn't feel it with NMS and I really felt like I saw all there was to see in less than an hour and I say it again: the lack of multiplayer has nothing to do with it. Some people say NMS is a mile wide and an inch deep and this is exactly the feeling I had because all I actually did when playing NMS was grind for pretty much everything (even simply walking around) while visiting more or less different planets with the same POIs. Maybe I was expecting to much from the game, but the only thing I can be certain of is that I wouldn't have got it refunded if the game wasn't so expensive in the first place.

I may sound sour, but these are my feelings about the game and watching more gameplay footage only confirm the feeling that it isn't worth the price in my opinion. I don't even want to mock it or troll about it because I wanted to believe in this game until the very bitter end... But I'm glad there are people enjoying it at least as much as it made me sad. :)
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Re: NMS

Post by Marvin »

Did you try the quest?
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Re: NMS

Post by Dingo »

Marvin, I totally see it now, the retro sci-fi. Helps a bit. I think one of my problems is that I have zero time to play games, haven't even tried EL yet, and yet I expected it to be amazing with zero effort put in and ridiculous time constraints. Honestly, if I played EM for the first time right now I'd say I hate that too, and its obviously one of my favorites all-time. I withdraw my prematurely negative comments regarding NMS.
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Re: NMS

Post by Marvin »

As Denny will attest to, I've never shied away from games which reflect "reality" as much as possible. When I set sail in a Silent Hunter submarine (or U-boat), it can take me three or four days in real time to get to my patrol area. Which is why I've never considered asking Vice to add a time compression option to his games. Consequently, in NMS, I've yet to follow the in-game instruction to leave the planet and head into space. Nor did I bother to accept the quest (I was afraid it would insist on having me perform certain tasks in a limited amount of time).

I do find that I can perform a number of tasks within a half-hour or so ... just as long as I don't take long, long walks in order to discover what that far-away question mark means.
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Re: NMS

Post by Marvin »

??? Btw, there is no in-game joystick support. There is a mod which allows you to map a joystick ... but it looks like the DL website is down right now.
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Re: NMS

Post by Arei »

Marvin wrote:Did you try the quest?
Yes and no, I started with the atlas path and found the first alien ruins but I didn't really like the way it was written and I have a really hard time following a story when I don't enjoy the general gameplay; I'd rather read a book honestly.

I can see why people like this game and I have no problem with that, but I just can't bring myself to like it... I'll probably give it another try after updates whenever there is a discount on it though. :)
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Re: NMS

Post by Marvin »

Arei wrote:I'd rather read a book honestly.
8) Admittedly, my kindle gets a real workout too.
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Re: NMS

Post by matchbox2022 »

Dingo wrote:Marvin, I totally see it now, the retro sci-fi. Helps a bit. I think one of my problems is that I have zero time to play games, haven't even tried EL yet, and yet I expected it to be amazing with zero effort put in and ridiculous time constraints. Honestly, if I played EM for the first time right now I'd say I hate that too, and its obviously one of my favorites all-time. I withdraw my prematurely negative comments regarding NMS.
Totally a time thing. If a recreational thing does not inspire recreation and you don't have the time for the realism aspect, it can become quite annoying.

The bigger thing about NMS, or anyone that demos or shows me anything, is that if they are being misleading, cherry picking, or straight up lying about a feature, regardless of who's fault it is, it puts me off about the entire thing and the person in general.

If NMS had been released as is, sure it'd be a bit of a wallop to the wallet and probably a little too high for what you get....but there wouldn't have been nearly as much backlash. It would've been much better received and there wouldn't be a huge drop in sales right now.
I understand marketing is about pre-ordering, having a capital base, etc etc......

The fact is, when you say you'll do something and it never happens. If you show something that doesn't exist or is practically too difficult for a casual gamer to attain and enjoy (without describing that specifically), it is a lie.

Don't make promises you can't keep, ignorance is bliss, all those clichés apply to this game, which is why whomever's fault it may be, NMS will never see a dime of my money.

If it weren't for the mass refund policies being waived I'd have been super surprised to not see a class action lawsuit like what happened to nVidia years ago.
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Re: NMS

Post by Nigel_Strange »

I was not inviting a comparison between NMS and any of the Evochron games. The only possible comparison I would make is that they are both sandbox type games that give you a lot of freedom in a very big space.

Now that I think about it, though, In a sense, the games are almost complimentary. In Evochron, you spend all your time in a ship, and although you can land on planets, you can't get out of your ship. It is, as intended, a space ship simulator. In NMS, you spend very little time in your ship, and the game is mostly on foot. You use your ship to get around, but it's not a space ship simulator by any stretch. True, you can go into "space" in your ship, and do some battling there, mining, etc. but this is not a very well-developed area of the game.

If you could combine EL and NMS, so that you could really fly a ship and have that level of detail in the space exploration, then have something like the NMS universe when you get out of your ship and walk around, it would probably be what people originally wanted from NMS. Maybe, one day, Elite Dangerous will provide extravehicular activities in some later patch, but that might be a long time from now.

NMS does remind me a lot of Ad Astra: procedural planets, with animals, planets, etc., That was a free game, developed by one guy in his spare time, using Microsoft Paint to do the artwork, if I recall correctly. That game, in some ways, was way ahead of its time. You couldn't get out of your ship, but, you still had a procedural universe to explore and you had joystick support. Space combat was also much more interesting in Ad Astra, as you could give and take specific component damage, and if you rendered a ship inoperable, you could salvage it for cash.

But, I digress...

My wife had not really paid much attention to NMS, so she did not get the hype. She didn't even start wanting the game until she saw me playing it, and saw that it was a game of exploration, exploring, etc.

I think that the hype, the expectations, ruined the game for a lot of people, and if the game sneaked out without any warning at all, there would be a lot more favorable reviews. The lesson here is to manage expectations carefully. You want to generate interest in a game, but generating it too early and promising too much seems to be a mistake.

Springing a game out without anyone knowing about it until it is ready (or nearly ready) and being honest about the features gives people a lot more trust in the developer, and I think should make the game rate higher.
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Re: NMS

Post by DaveK »

Just to clarify ... my comments about trolls and uber critics were not aimed at anyone commenting here. After reading some of the posts I hopped over to YouTube to see what all the fuss was about and the only things I could see were the 'they lied' - it's a cheat' compilations. In the first page of vids not one was about what the game was actually like for a new player. :)
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Re: NMS

Post by DaveK »

Nigel_Strange wrote:I think that the hype, the expectations, ruined the game for a lot of people, and if the game sneaked out without any warning at all, there would be a lot more favorable reviews. The lesson here is to manage expectations carefully. You want to generate interest in a game, but generating it too early and promising too much seems to be a mistake.

Springing a game out without anyone knowing about it until it is ready (or nearly ready) and being honest about the features gives people a lot more trust in the developer, and I think should make the game rate higher.
I agree totally about managing expectations - several major recent releases have suffered from 'unrealistic expectation syndrome'. I wonder how much of it is the result of financing games via crowd funding - you have to do more than just whet appetites with hints to attract the funding to create the game.

:)
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Re: NMS

Post by Marvin »

::) I suspect that some of the negative reaction is a result of the "once burned, twice shy" or "fool me once, shame on you" syndrome. Ever since Tesseraction's "Enigma: Rising Tide" debacle, I've been wary of pre-release game hype. And the latest uproar over Elite's expensive planetary add-on probably stoked the fire. But, while some of the claims of other games were clear-cut, NMS's "multiplayer" aspect was left mostly to the imagination ... and, evidently, quite a few players have a vivid imagination.
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Re: NMS

Post by DaveK »

;D
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Re: NMS

Post by gietek »

NMS is the very reason I bought EL.
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