Turrets (IND) But why?

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Kuros
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Turrets (IND) But why?

Post by Kuros »

Why do turrets built by independent merchants attack everyone? Is IND supposed to mean "we hate everyone"?. Vice, will you consider changing it please? Is it possible to make them attack only when IND infrastructure is being attacked?

It actually doesn't make logical sense, imo. I don't think the FDN or ALC would tolerate a faction that reacts with lethal force at their mere presence, right?
Last edited by Kuros on Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Turrets (IND) But why?

Post by Vice »

They shouldn't attack everyone, player's marked 'IND' should generally escape attack by such turrets. Originally, this was set up this way for a kind of 'pirate'/'raider' option where players could set up a station structure that could/would be hostile to all but 'IND' marked ships. A kind of pirate base type option if you will. But it's certainly easy to remove that capability and require an initial attack from an ALC or FDN player before they begin firing. Open to additional feedback on this.
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Re: Turrets (IND) But why?

Post by Kuros »

Thank you Vice! I updated my post a little bit. I don't think the IND turrets make sense the way it is now. I do think the turrets reacting only in defense is the best way.
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Re: Turrets (IND) But why?

Post by Vice »

Understood, and unless there is some objection, I'll plan on changing that behavior in the next update. It certainly seems that most players are indeed using the IND option as simply an independent (ie entirely neutral) faction and not as a hostile raiding faction of some kind looking to attack everyone.
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Re: Turrets (IND) But why?

Post by Kuros »

Plus, I think if there were space pirates. They would probably work for people who are either the FDN or ALC anyway, secretly.
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Re: Turrets (IND) But why?

Post by SolarWarden »

Glad this is being discussed and implemented.
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Re: Turrets (IND) But why?

Post by Shermandan »

Hm... I don't see anything criminal in IMG turrets attacking everyone, it seems to be more interesting and challenging.
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Re: Turrets (IND) But why?

Post by Kuros »

Sorry this is late but if you make this change can we have IND treat Vonari as hostile? Since the Vonari are hostile to IND. As it is now, if an IND station is built in an area that there is Vonari, the Vonari can fly into the station and attack players from within it. Probably a rare scenario, building where there are Vonari, but just thought I'd suggest anyways.

Shermandan, you may find it interesting but it makes no sense at all. Neither the FDN or ALC would tolerate a faction that kills them on site. They would not allow IND to travel through their territory as a neutral faction as they currently do. Also, in MP, the other factions behave as if they are not expecting it. They will continue to jump into a system and fly towards a station as if they are going to dock, trade, refuel whatever and get picked off one by one over and over again. They do not even attack IND infrastructure. It's tempting to just sit there and farm cargo, but since it seems something is off about the behavior I don't do that. It also creates trolling opportunities which I won't outline in this thread.

We already have two warring factions, I think it should be okay to have one neutral one. Otherwise the in game description of IND and the behavior of the other factions is quite incorrect.
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Re: Turrets (IND) But why?

Post by Vice »

The change to not auto-attack ALC or FDN ships will likely be added for the next update. However, their neutral behavior will likely carry over to other conditions as well (might change in a future build, but the next update is in the process of being finalized now and no further changes are planned that would risk introducing bugs). So for the time being, players interested in building in war zones or Vonari space should use either an ALC or FDN affiliation.
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Re: Turrets (IND) But why?

Post by Kuros »

Okay, Thank you Vice.
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Re: Turrets (IND) But why?

Post by Vice »

I do have some time while working on the final changes for the build to review how feasible it might be to allow IND turrets to automatically fire on Vonari ships. I'll analyze how feasible it is (how low of a bug risk and sufficient time to test) to try and work it into the next update.
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Re: Turrets (IND) But why?

Post by Marvin »

:P Well there goes the hope for peace in our time.... ::)
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Re: Turrets (IND) But why?

Post by DeathTech »

It depends how things should be handled. There seems to be a misunderstanding about the "independent" force.

Which as stated before. Basically means "Pirate" though others use it as "I don't like PVP so I didn't pick sides" or some would think "Independent forces".

Perhaps a consideration should be made for the thought that they should be separate things.

In my opinion players wishing to be be "Pirates" can do so casually from any faction, in the other factions turfs.
Although as some already use "ind" for as stated before "pirate base".

I believe "ind" should be sub-factioned if possible or delegated to separate thing.

The reason it should be split up is for recognition purposes (Game internals).
As a player sub-factioned as Pirate wouldn't trigger other Pirate base defences. But everyone else would. (Current)
And other sub-factioned as Independent forces will only trigger upon attack. (Perhaps make a game trigger is someone has equipped station busters)

Although I believe for "fairness" that both sub-factions would then have to be identified as "Ind" or possible Pirates much like real-life should be given an option to fake Identifiers and be able to on the fly pick between any of the tags. (Perhaps make it possible using some sort of equipment that can be detected as contraband)

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Re: Turrets (IND) But why?

Post by Marvin »

There have been changes as to how Indy pilots can operate and interact with non-Indy players in MP. They now have more freedom: their presence among other factions is no longer as egregious as it used to be.
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Re: Turrets (IND) But why?

Post by Vice »

Quite a number of faction things have indeed changed since this thread, which is now over six months old. The OP had a constructive point with regard to how the turrets behaved, later changes involved contract linking and AI behavior. To reverse the changes with the turrets now at this point, even in part with sharded sub-factions, would cause the issue to potentially resurface. The existing faction mechanics can already facilitate all three behavioral trends (including an example of allied pirate-to-pirate behavior), all the player has to do is select which route they want to go by initial faction affiliation. They can be directly hostile by opposing faction ID, allied with matching ID, or relatively neutral with IND. From there, they can establish any desired sub-factions just by label once they've established the overall in-game behavioral parameters they prefer. And they can shake things up if they want to be a traitor of sorts and the turrets are still able to defend under such conditions.
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Re: Turrets (IND) But why?

Post by DeathTech »

Vice wrote:Quite a number of faction things have indeed changed since this thread, which is now over six months old. The OP had a constructive point with regard to how the turrets behaved, later changes involved contract linking and AI behavior. To reverse the changes with the turrets now at this point, even in part with sharded sub-factions, would cause the issue to potentially resurface. The existing faction mechanics can already facilitate all three behavioral trends (including an example of allied pirate-to-pirate behavior), all the player has to do is select which route they want to go by initial faction affiliation. They can be directly hostile by opposing faction ID, allied with matching ID, or relatively neutral with IND. From there, they can establish any desired sub-factions just by label once they've established the overall in-game behavioral parameters they prefer. And they can shake things up if they want to be a traitor of sorts and the turrets are still able to defend under such conditions.
Fair enough. Didn't realise this thread was that old.
It surprised me greatly considering it was on page 1.

I suppose as long the behaviour was modified to act better I can't complain. :3
Perhaps the suggestion stands for a future game. ;)
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